Odd Light Cycle at Junction.

artanevilla

For reference I'm talking about the junction of Drumcondra Road heading South and turning right onto Millmount Avenue. (Dublin)

There's a bit of a funky light cycle that can leave you sitting in the middle of the junction with your flute in your hand an nowhere to go, just want people's opinions on what is the best way to approach (personally I think its just set up incorrectly.)

So turning right at this junction, you move into the middle of the junction to turn right as normal and wait for a gap in oncoming traffic, to make things difficult visibility over the bridge is brutal, especially if there is cars oncoming wanting right onto Richmond Road. Oncoming traffic also tends to come flying over the bridge.

If it's busy, at a normal junction you'd wait for red then complete the turn, however at this junction when it turns red your side, it stays green for oncoming traffic. The next cycle then it goes both green on Richmond and Millmount Avenue. If you're lucky there's nothing coming those roads and you can clear the junction. However if there's cars/cyclists there and they are on the ball they're out into the junction before you can pull clear. The lights then cycle back onto green on the Drumcondra Road, so you're back to square one.

Now you can risk it and clear the junction at the light changes but it can be very risku particularly with cyclists and often times pedestrians crossing Millmount Ave.

Really there should be a filter as there seems to be no provision to turn right (you are allowed). I've never seen a junction with a cycle like this before.

Bit of a rant but any thoughts?

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058280390/odd-light-cycle-at-junction

The next cycle then it goes both green on Richmond and Millmount Avenue. If you're lucky there's nothing coming those roads and you can clear the junction. However if there's cars/cyclists there and they are on the ball they're out into the junction before you can pull clear. The lights then cycle back onto green on the Drumcondra Road, so you're back to square one.

This part makes it sound like you're not in the correct position. How can the road users from Millmount/Richmond get out into the junction when you should be blocking it?

artanevilla

No is the short answer. Red is approx car position, blue would be traffic flow. Richmond and Millmount are slightly offset so you aren't blocking.

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120131136#Comment_120131136

I know the junction. The offset is very slight, e.g. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3687758,-6.2552402,3a,75y,101.32h,91.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZRl_URNyIBvvjKZbfW_61A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192. I don't understand why you aren't up and past the blue line

artanevilla

Your visibility is more restricted further up if there are oncoming cars turning right. Either way it's irrelevant to the light cycle.

Wishbone Ash

I'm pretty sure there's no right turn permitted onto Millmount Avenue. That may explain why the sequence is the way it is.

artanevilla

There is no sign to indicate that this is the case, I do agree that the light sequence indicates that this is the case though.

Spook_ie

Very brief look, you should be at least one car length further forward so that you have control of the junction for when lights go green from Millmount/Richmond

Like here

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120131508#Comment_120131508

Fair enough - maybe I'm confusing it with the laneway at the upper side of the pub.

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120131453#Comment_120131453

You can, you can even see a right turn arrow on the road approaching the junction on streetview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120131276#Comment_120131276

Once you've moved into the junction, the light cycle isn't relevant. You need to be in a position to clear the junction when it's safe to do so:

You're waiting at the green rectangle, when you should be at the red one. The fact that cars from either Millmount or Richmondhave time to get a green light and can block you off from a junction you're already in shows you that your position is incorrect

artanevilla

Most of the time yes, but with the usual orange/red light runners and pedestrians crossing Millmount there can be times where it is not safe to do so.

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120131659#Comment_120131659

If you're waiting in the red rectangle, there should be no circumstances where a car from Richmond can get a green light, move off, and get to the center of the junction before you. And you're already blocking any traffic from Millmount

Wishbone Ash

Just to add that the 'no right turn' from Richmond Road to Drumcondra Road is ignored by a lot of motorists who don't realise that they are then going through a pedestrian crossing where the pedestrians have a green light.

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120132041#Comment_120132041

That's a pretty charitable view. There's rather a large proportion of them who are well aware exactly what they're doing, and just don't give a ****

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120132056#Comment_120132056

In fairness while I believe a lot of motorists will chance making a right turn when not permitted, only a minority would deliberately drive through a pedestrian crossing that has been green for pedestrians.

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120131453#Comment_120131453

It's a well worn arrow but is easily visible in 2018's Google Maps, again notice the positioning of the silver car to turn right in 2018 controling the junction, it would be better if the lights Northbound went red at the same time as those Southbound ( if as you say they don't ) but should still be able to safely navigate the right turn by observing the northbound lights in your mirrors.

2018

2022

artanevilla

You can navigate the red light in the mirrors, but the lads oncoming just ignore the red light a lot of the time. I just think it's unusual that the oncoming light has a different sequence coupled with no filter light makes it a pain in the hole.

Arnout

I think it's not the only junction. Just twice this week I saw cars back up behind the line who had wanted to turn right from Kill Lane onto Clonkeen Road in Deansgrange, but couldn't do so before the light turned red and other directions turned green. They even have their own lane, just not their own light...

And that's just the two times I've actually been in that intersection this week (in a different route though).

TherapyBoy

I know the junction well, it can be tricky depending on traffic & it’s always busy!

You can avoid the right-turn issues if you take a left further up the hill at Ormond Road/Church Avenue before you get to the traffic lights at the bridge, then right onto Grace Park Road & right again onto Richmond Road, then you’ll have a spot in the light sequence to get across. It’s a bit of a roundabout way but it takes the pressure off you to clear the junction.