Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120378165#Comment_120378165

Which is what you would expect in any developed country - a growing population as a result of natural growth and immigration.

People in this thread are talking about trying to stop the Irish population from growing, as if that would be a sensible solution to the housing crisis (absolutely no economist, demographer or sociologist in Ireland is proposing that as a remedy to the accommodation shortages).

JohnnyFortune

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120379352#Comment_120379352

No, but it's being snuck in by proxy, with no housing, no school places, no GP appointments, high cost of living, high cost of childcare. Who can afford kids nowadays?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120379398#Comment_120379398

Everyone seems to be able to afford them. We're one of if not the youngest populations in the EU.

JohnnyFortune

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120379511#Comment_120379511

Those that the squeezed middle pay everything for can afford them. Hardly the best stock to have breeding if you want a high skilled educated workforce. And we've seen how "second/third generation" non-natives have gotten on throughout Europe. But magical Ireland will be different to everywhere else that was blessed with these multicultural policies.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120379398#Comment_120379398

Exactly, it’s only getting worse. The population surge will continue, more pressure on every one of those services and more besides.

wait for the influx when the war in Ukraine is eventually over…

wait for as is happening, many African countries and their citizens also wanting the same levels of help from ireland and other EU countries.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120379622#Comment_120379622

I would say most of my friends and cousins etc. my age are part of the "squeezed middle" and nearly all of them have kids. Where there's a will there's a way. Are you hard up, money wise?

NattyO

It always amazed me that people seriously believe the "we need to keep importing people to pay our pensions" rubbish.

Do they not see that this is utterly unsustainable? That it would fuel rapid increases in population, that in turn would require even more rapid increases, and on and on ad infinitum.

The only way this would work is to ensure the only immigrants are well-paid workers (to "pay our pensions") who then get kicked out once they themselves reach pension age - is this what is being suggested?

The ironic thing is that I have found a strong correlation between those most in favour of unlimited immigration, and those who want the toughest actions to prevent climate change. How anyone can promote two such utterly opposing positions is beyond me.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380134#Comment_120380134

It always amazed me that people think we can keep growing the economy and consuming more and more without destroying the planet and running out of things and kicking off wars. Immigration is a symptom of the money at all costs capatilist model most rich countries follow. Dont blame the immigrants. Maybe we need a different system where we're content with less.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380297#Comment_120380297

Will that new model mean those in the third world will have to be content with less too?

Because this utopia you speak of won't work if everyone wants the western way of life and all come here looking for it.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380311#Comment_120380311

We have less. They have more. In an ideal world wealth is spread better.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380379#Comment_120380379

That's been tried. Didn't work. Lots of people died.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380391#Comment_120380391

If you mean communism it was tried by the wrong leaders to begin with. People will move to where money and opportunities are and it won't be changing any time soon unless we get strict right wing govs in Europe, and even then its impossible to control borders. Look at the USA, even trump didn't stop it.

In the coming years and decades its going to get far far worse with the conflicts and lack of resources caused by climate change. Buckle up!

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120379634#Comment_120379634

The IPCC report on climate change is out today, just had a quick scan of the summary, doesn't mention climate refugees but

A.2.2 Approximately 3.3–3.6 billion people live in contexts that are highly vulnerable to climate change. Human and ecosystem vulnerability are interdependent. Regions and people with considerable development constraints have high vulnerability to climatic hazards. Increasing weather and climate extreme events have exposed millions of people to acute food insecurity and reduced water security, with the largest adverse impacts observed in many locations and/or communities in Africa, Asia, Central and South America, LDCs, Small Islands and the Arctic, and globally for Indigenous Peoples, small-scale food producers and low-income households. Between 2010 and 2020, human mortality from floods, droughts and storms was 15 times higher in highly vulnerable regions, compared to regions with very low vulnerability

https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/syr/

thinkabouit

Over 100 pages on this thread, still haven’t seen a common sense or fair on everybody argument for this nonsense.

there’s a tsunami of people all over the world coming here. From refugees, migrants, students, illegals & Irish citizen’s wanting to return home from abroad.

But there’s no homes for any of these people.

Common sense says we have to get some sort of control on it,

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380501#Comment_120380501

100%. It's the same circular, nonsensical arguments from a small cohort of open border enthusiasts and third-rate agent provocateurs.

Housing and services simply do not exist to support current inflows. It's high time to begin strictly regulating inward migration.

In terms of the demographics you've identified:

• Returning Irish emigrants: We should absolutely encourage them to return, particularly the thousands of health care professionals employed abroad.
• Refugees: If they are legitimate, yes we have a moral duty to provide them with sanctuary. However, the uncapped approach simply isn't viable.
• Illegals: Shown the door immediately.
• Students: It depends on the nature of the studies. No issues with those coming here to undertake recognized, professional training. Conversely, thousands of Latin Americans, particularly Brazilians, arriving to 'study' at spurious English-language colleges, simply are not needed. This migration channel is creating a slave labor class, ripe for exploitation by avaricious, unscrupulous employers. This channel should be shut down immediately.
• Migrants: Clearly, we do need some skilled migrants to plug gaps in the economy. However, I don't see why a labor force of 2.5 million cannot be serviced by the pool 500 million potential candidates available across the EEA. It really makes zero sense to permit the entry of large numbers of non-EEA migrants, with the exception of the most niche positions.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380959#Comment_120380959

So are you going to vote fianna fail or Fianna Gael to implement these policies you dream of?

Nosler

I was in the UK this morning. I was watching the telly. The UK has 51,000 asylum seekers in hotels at a cost of £6m a day. That's about £120 to keep each asylum seeker in a hotel every night....

The whole of Europe needs a zero refugee policy..... the EU really has been pathetic in the way it has handled the migrant crisis over the last decade.

I hope the UK sends all the asylum seekers to Rwanda.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381274#Comment_120381274

so how do you stop refugees crossing the med into europe? it's a ridiculously long coast. even though a growing number of people are like yourself and don't want any refugees at all, a large number of people will always want to help and will always have some kind of political sway to do so. so your dream of a zero refugee europe will never happen, there's only going to be more and more of them. you're lucky ireland is an island and situated where it is, the med countries are what will take the vast majority of them in the coming years.

also 6m a day to the UK is nothing, it's one of the richest countries in the world.

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381311#Comment_120381311

Europe could stop asylum seekers tomorrow if they wanted...

Stop handing out free money and passports to asylum seekers. Deport them straight away to places like Rwanda.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381329#Comment_120381329

impossible to stop migrants coming in though, even if they could no longer claim asylum they'd still be flooding into europe, look at the usa. anyway europe don't want to stop asylum seekers or money to them any time soon, so it's not gonna happen, sorry

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380297#Comment_120380297

I think you’ll fine there a reason they are coming to the furthest part of the EU in their droves and it’s not due to capitalism. It’s due to our generous welfare system.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381372#Comment_120381372

The tide is turning on this across Europe. “Populist” governments are gaining power and against the open boarders / low wage workers system in place at the moment. Eastern Europe never signed up to this approach in the first place either.

minimary

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64825197

40k came to Canada through a road in New York in the last year. Its really clear that the UN refugee convention is not fit for purpose

"Behind the influx is a nearly two-decade old agreement with the US - the Safe Third Country Agreement - which requires migrants to file for asylum in the first 'safe' country they step foot in."

Mr Trudeau has dismissed calls to close the crossing, suggesting it would be futile given the thousands of kilometers of undefended border with the US and that migrants would dangerously attempt to cross elsewhere.He has focused instead on renegotiating the agreement - an issue he is expected to raise with Joe Biden when the president visits Ottawa later this week.

But the prime minister is facing pressure to take action as the new arrivals strain social services, especially in Quebec, where many of the migrants settle."

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381384#Comment_120381384

The discussion was talking about all immigrants not just asylum seekers. The reason so many PPS numbers are issued to foreigners is a lot to do with a fact that there are so many jobs for them, many of which Irish people won't do any more.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381400#Comment_120381400

Well we'll see how it plays out but I can't see any way immigration will be halted greatly in Europe any time soon

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381400#Comment_120381400

David McWilliams pointed out recently that populist governments usually end up wrecking the place and leaving it much worse off economically than when they took power. They are invariably ideological cranks who scare off investment and who do nothing to promote growth (they are often corrupt as well and busy lining their own pockets). The Tory Brexit regime and Trump's US would be good examples.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381256#Comment_120381256

Why don’t you tell me who to vote for Robbie?

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381466#Comment_120381466

The ideological cranks I see are roddy ogorman and Leo flinging the doors open and saying goodbye to statehood. Already costing the taxpayers a huge amount with even more to come.

thinkabouit

instead of taking the bull by the horns & controlling who’s coming into the country,

this week the Dail will be voting on if Landlords should be able to evict people staying in their property’s because those renters have no where else to go.

A result of too many people here already.

Its creating problem after problem & solving nothing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381311#Comment_120381311

That stance is not much succour to the Mother on Panorama tonight who works as a care assistant with a working adult daughter in the family and one child in school. The child only goes to school to be fed and the Mother/Daughter both working can’t afford a light bulb until pay day.