Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460234#Comment_120460234

The refusal rate of asylum applications and international legal obligations are entirely separate things

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460088#Comment_120460088

We have an opt out. It's linked above.

Besides, a lot these people are moving from country to country. Ireland isn't the first safe country they've been in. Some of them are clearly welfare shopping, lol. Ireland is all the way over here by itself in the North West part of Europe.

You never answered the question, btw. Genuine Ukrainian refugees aside, why do you care so much about people you don't know anything about? Especially considering the crisis in Ireland at the moment. And let's be honest, we're talking about people who don't know or care about you in any way, either. What's the motivation?

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460268#Comment_120460268

They absolutely are not , if a concrete obligation exists in a pan European sense ?, Ireland is no less entitled to refuse the vast majority of AS applicants like France do , one can only conclude that this so called obligation is in no way binding and is merely a pledge

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460318#Comment_120460318

Use of an opt out would be a hugely controversial move. Most countries in Europe would want to know why Ireland was refusing to take in refugees, when virtually no other country in western Europe is doing the same. They would be especially baffled given that Ireland doesn't even have a history of right wing politics or media or far right populist parties.

I've no 'skin in the game' here. But I'm seeing a lot of lies and misinformation being aired around the refugee issue. It's strange because we don't even have a particularly high intake of refugees in Ireland compared to many countries, either historically or in the present, apart from the unprecedented events of the last 12 months involving Ukrainian people.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460337#Comment_120460337

It might be controversial amongst the media and NGO class , it certainly wouldn’t be controversial anywhere else including internationally as other EU countries have far lower acceptance rates

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460337#Comment_120460337

The answer to other countries would be (not that we should care what they think):

- We have no more accomodation. The country is already in a housing crisis. Our own people are homeless. End of.

- The patterns observed in other EU countries aren't good. Would be negligent to expose our own citizens to the same risk.

There's nothing "right-wing" about common sense. You also say "populism" as if it's a bad thing. Populism means "power of the people against the privileged elite". Why wouldn't you support that? Politicians are another group that don't care about you. You do realize that, right? 😄

You seem to be constantly working against your own best interests, and instead advocate for groups who literally don't give a damn about you. Is that what it means to be "left-wing"?

If you really don't have any skin in the game, you are the definition of a "useful idiot". I'm not saying that to put you down or be rude, either; you're not a bad mannered person on here. However, I feel that is the most apt term to describe such a mindset at this time.

Goodnight, anyway; Happy Easter to yourself and everyone else!

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460473#Comment_120460473

Eh.. no. That's not true while we're bound by the ECHR. That's why the far right wing of the Conservative and Unionist Party next door want out of it.

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460497#Comment_120460497

Hello Suellen Braverman!

Yeah, but no. We're not British, we're not English, stop spreading their manure here please.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460337#Comment_120460337

You keep going on about the "far right" as a means of ignoring the reality of the situation or the posts put to you.

We can blame Twitter and America once again for that. The liberal" US media lost the run of itself when Trump got elected and everything since is "far right" if it's not in step with "the message".

Well, this isn't America and Trump is no longer president over there (although his successor is no better but for different reasons). This is IRELAND and this idiotic trend of our own liberal media and advocates trying to copy/paste America's politics, issues, terminology, and conflicts into our culture has likewise gone much too far.

FG and FF by the way might disagree with you as supposedly conservative centrist/centre-right parties historically, although I will agree that since Leo rose to power, that's increasingly theoretical as he chases likes for whatever Twitter crusade is trending. FF are just chasing whatever will save them from increasing irrelevancy and oblivion.

This nonsense though of a far right agenda in politics is just factually incorrect. There are no parties in the Dail that fit this description. What we have are varying degrees of left. There's far more danger of a "far left" party coming to power in the next elections.

Debate the issue absolutely, but stop with this nonsensical attempt to derail and diminish the points with these completely misplaced references to things that are best left on the cesspit that is Twitter or the falling apart at the seams country that is the USA.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460507#Comment_120460507

We're not Americans either, but that doesn't stop some (here and in the media) trying to push their agendas, problems, and terminology into debates here.

Guildenstern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460507#Comment_120460507

Racism obviously ok if it's aimed at the UK.

You've just lost any semblance of an argument you had with that comment.

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457553#Comment_120457553

30 million a week on refugee/asylum seeker housing now.

I welcome taking in Ukranian refugees to a certain, even large extent , but its time to cop on. 1.5 billion per year is a crazy number to be giving for temporary accommodation.

Make them pay towards their accommodation for a start, otherwise its way too generous compared to other countries e.g. Poland . We don't have anymore space for our own people let alone refugees. That is not an exagerration or racism, just a fact. Homelessness is increasing rapidly. Rental costs are increasing.

Of course the gobshite O Brien said they won't be made to contribute.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0318/1363871-housing-refugees-in-hotels-unsustainable-obrien/

Why exactly?????????

Then they are proud that 15,000 Ukranian kids were taken into the Irish school system instead of continuing in their own system (fair enough if thats what they want), but doesn't mention the absolutely terrible lack of school places right around the country for Irish students. And the large impact of these children coming into these schools and classes.

Only last week would the minister of education FINALLY admit that they are completely overloaded.

Rather they would just pretend there are no limits and no severe impacts.

Drives me fecking bananas.

maninasia

Schools are at full capacity , yet there are so many other issues this is often papered over.

It's a mess and it has real negative impacts on kids and parents.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41102485.html

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460602#Comment_120460602

May the road rise to meet you fella.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166880#Comment_120166880

Billionaires have applied for and received asylum; it’s not a test of wealth or poverty, it’s about security and safety. Clearly any wealthy asylum-seeker would be expected to support themselves.

Honesty Policy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460626#Comment_120460626

What is Capacity at this stage?

Bursting at the seams.

We have tiny classrooms in a school built 50 years ago. We have a Junior Infant class that had an enrolment of 27 pupils in February 2022, to now 35 pupils.

27 pupils was already way over capacity as it was, considering 24 pupils is now Pupil- Teacher in Ireland. That is still one of the highest in Europe!

It is a severe Health and Safety issue at this stage and without a doubt, the pupil's education is severely impacted.

No matter how amazing a teacher is at their job, there is only so far you can spread yourself over the course of the day.

Imagine, as an example, trying to hear 35 children reading. Especially Junior Infants, who might be slower as they're learning.

Scandalous!

maninasia

It is a scandal and it means education standards have dropped significantly.

Also many kids can't find a place at all initially and best they can do is then find somewhere miles away after a lot of stress.

Of course no school bus places for lots of em either.

Nobody in the media seems to be talking about it cos it's showing negative effects of taking in so many so quickly. No problem with providing education opportunities to refugees but don't lower our education standards dramatically in an already stressed system (note I understand it is an existing issue that has been dramatically exacerbated in some areas).

Galwayguy35

Other countries would love to have an opt out clause like we have but the spineless fools we elect to run the country will never make use of it.

And there is absolutely no way the shinners will either if its MacDonald as Taoiseach when the dust settles after the next election.

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460772#Comment_120460772

110,000 Irish famine refugees arrived in Canada in 1847, they were the ones who made it. There was no housing of any kind, the people arriving were generally in poor health and there were definitely no school places for them. Thankfully the Canadians didn't force them off their shores, though there were plenty who wanted to.

If you knew just a bit of our history you wouldn't be saying things like that. I'd be curious how you missed that part of Ireland's history.

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451412#Comment_120451412

It's not good enough nor will they sustain it

Honesty Policy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460814#Comment_120460814

*Checks Canada on the World Map*

Second Largest by Size with one of the smallest populations.

Argument doesn't add up.

Also, the whole the Irish who built the world rings true.

As someone said in another post, the Irish didn't go Welfare Shopping (great description) around the world.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460814#Comment_120460814

Excellent argument. I've not heard that before. Let's just take everybody from the third world in and we can party like its 1850. Literally the most brain dead point ever and it's thrown around like some sort of gotcha.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460814#Comment_120460814

Were the Irish getting free meals, accommodation and healthcare when they got there?

Or was it a case of work or starve?

I think we know the answer to that one.

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460814#Comment_120460814

Saying things like what? The TRUTH.

That the quality of education provided has DECREASED

Come on man spell it out instead of aul hackneyed poverty famine rant drivel from the 1800s.

Then putting false words in my mouth as if I advocated for Ukranians to be thrown out. Shameful behaviour.

How you gonna fix it so mine and other parents kids have school places in the neighbourhood?

That they don't go to school in ridiculously overcrowded classes?

What's the plan NOW?

Your type don't actually care it's all about looking good. It's you who have no shame.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460814#Comment_120460814

Oh not this tired and irrelevant argument again.

- The Irish didn't go travelling through multiple safe countries where they were offered shelter and basic provisions first.

- They didn't arrive expecting welfare and handouts and complaining (as that lad who arrived from the UK via NI did on RTE a while back) about the weather and that there wasn't a house waiting for them.

- They worked or they starved. Not quite the same situation as the one we are dealing with now.

- They sold what little they had to book passage and arrived with what they could carry. Not like now where they can bring their cars across the breadth of Europe (again bypassing the multiple safe countries on the way) , use them here without having to comply with the same regulations or prerequisites as the natives, and where in some cases they're not road legal. I was behind a Chinese something or other with Ukrainian plates last week that looked pretty new but had US-style red indicators. Confusing if you haven't seen it before.

- They certainly weren't able to take holidays home, and still claim they were fleeing the place.

- There weren't lots of other nationalities claiming they were Irish to try and get access to the same goodies.. Oh wait, what goodies! That's right - there weren't any!

There's lots of other examples, but can people stop dragging up this "the Irish went everywhere" nonsense when they run out of a coherent retort? It's just not comparable to what we are dealing with 150+ years later.

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460900#Comment_120460900

Bullshit you don't know the answer to those questions or you're nor Irish.

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460944#Comment_120460944

I believe the answer was and still is no.

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460932#Comment_120460932

They said the same about Irish famine refugees. They have it too easy, they get a free tent, everyone is praying for them.

Try go without wifi for a week and see what level of refugee you might me.

maninasia

Tell me how are you going to deal with the slipping standards of a public education system that was already struggling?

The no.1 factor in quality education is the Teacher:Pupil ratio.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460959#Comment_120460959

I have genuinely no idea what you're even on about now. Sometimes it's better to just say nothing you know..

Anyway, now that we've debunked the "back to the 1850s" point, would you care to comment on how you propose we sustain the situation here in 2023 where essential services are being massively stretched, where people are sleeping on the streets because there's nowhere to put them, where a country that can't provide those essential basics for its own citizens is somehow expected to do so for anyone who arrives?

Also, WHY should we do so? Ireland as a country gives away a lot of money annually in foreign aid - both at national and individual levels - to the point where we were STILL giving 650 million annually during the financial crisis! We also have taken in more people than we can handle in the last 12 months - on top of the numbers in direct provision lodging appeal after appeal.

In short, we've more than done our part as a small island nation on the edge of Europe that itself has been very exposed to the economic winds and turmoil of the past decade.

We can't save or house everyone, and nor should we, nor be expected to - and certainly not at the expense of the natives and citizens who are already struggling to even keep a roof over their heads at this stage.