Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

maninasia

Some folks complain a lot when you show that there is no plan and no limits is not a strategy. They claim you are a bad actor, a this or that. Shouting on the internet.

They say 'you shouldn't say that' .But then what should you say when things aren't working ?

You should ask them how they will solve it if they don't like your proposal.

Right? Fair enough?

There are 500 and rising asylum sleepers sleeping rough out there while hotels are going back to tourism.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468990#Comment_120468990

No. They just object to made-up figures and lying. Which you are guilty of.

maninasia

So...nothing. No plan. Fingers in the ears time.

Will you accept the problem is getting worse?

That's what RTE just stated. Surely you aren't going to question the government mouthpiece ?

Not everybody can have made up figures. Somebody has to have the correct numbers somewhere!!!

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0412/1376527-asylum-seekers/

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469004#Comment_120469004

What am I the National Planning Institute?

Again. Very basic. My contribution to this thread has basically been limited to calling out bullsh*t numbers, because it was obvious they were bullsh*t and overstated for a political purpose.

If you have a problem you want solved, the first step is measuring it accurately, not pulling numbers out of your backside.

maninasia

Yeah very very very basic contribution.

You have been busy trying to reduce the numbers any way you could. How about RTE's numbers ?

They believable suddenly? Why?

I don't have any political position, that must be your own purpose.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469092#Comment_120469092

I think I handed out a few lessons to be honest. But I'll leave that for others to judge.

Bullsh*t generally doesn't find a home in threads like these.

maninasia

Oh yeah the lesson that asylum seekers and ISPs coming to the state numbering up to 100,000 in 13 months during an historical housing and health crisis.

306,000 pps numbers issued, up 80% in one year. Bullshit my arse.

500 homless asylum seekers and trending upwards. RTE numbers are okay though 👌 Or Bullshit ?

Numbers are all there. But no plan, just trying your best to pick a few holes from the sidelines. No data posted yourself proactively.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469120#Comment_120469120

What are you still prattling on about 300k PPS numbers when you (at least should) know hundreds of thousands of that number are Irish births, Irish returnees from abroad, EU citizens with treaty rights etc?

Your 100k figure above has been proven to be false already. You're still at it.

You're habitually lying.

creeper1

Look at the kind of thing being said by NGO s. "Ireland remains in clear breach of its legal obligations regarding newly arrived applicants for International Protection"

What about obligations to people who live in Ireland, contributed tax (in many cases) and are citizens.

Haven't these NGOs ever heard of the phrase "you can't get blood out of a stone".

Ireland has done more than enough already and as politicians have said "moved heaven and earth" to accommodate people from both the Ukraine and all over the globe.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467508#Comment_120467508

Wtf good would that do , that’s actually worse, in fact you’re mixing up td’s and councillors so I’ll give you a pass

Yurt2

I'd like to make a request from the moderators.

If a user posts figures that are verifiably false, have been proven to be false, and persist in doing so - I believe they should be threadbanned.

Good faith conversations are not possible when people are lying time and time again. It just stinks up the thread with no benefit to anyone.

We may as well be allowing flat earthers free reign because they too have difficulty with reality.

maninasia

I'm only posting this to put the lie to the above post.

Accusing me of lying again and again. It's WAY out of order and unacceptable behaviour!!!!

We didn't have an 80% increase , 100,000 increase in school leavers entering the workforce in 2022 did we?

approx 200k PPS issued 2021

approx 300k PPS issued 2022

So figure it out. I mean it's not a mystery practically every Ukranian gets issued a PPS on entry to the state for instance. That is why it is relevant information to this debate.

179,289 new PPS Numbers have been issued to Non-Irish nationals in Ireland from January-September 2022

Number of PPSNs issued Jan-Sep 2022 (compared with same period in 2019):

Total: 232,503 (+85,756)

Irish Nationals: 53,214 (-657)

Ukrainian Nationals: 55,205 (+54,736)

Other Nationals: 124,084 (+31,677)

You are so arrogant putting your own spin on numbers that you don't like asking Mods to remove it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469146#Comment_120469146

100,000 seems fairly accurate. Prove him wrong instead of just throwing obscenities around. What’s the actually number you think and give evidence and we can move on.

You sound deeply angry at this discussion. Maybe you’ve got vested interest.

side note: I don’t think Irish returning from abroad gets a new pps number. They keep their old one.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469226#Comment_120469226

He's been proven wrong dozens of times on the thread ad-nauseum.

His 100k figure is bullsh*t. Feel free to read the thread.

The only vested interest I have is to not having to read concocted nonsense about what is a serious issue. I've already been accused of working for an NGO (as if there's something wrong with that).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469266#Comment_120469266

No it hasn’t. It hasn’t been proven but it hasn’t been proven wrong. I think he’s right and you’re blowing angry smoke. Calm down.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469224#Comment_120469224

😂

I'm at work at the moment, but I'll be back to demolish that later.

I can tell you put that together in haste because you've made some absolute howlers.

Get the aloe vera ready because it's going to sting.

You're still lumping in EU and UK nationals (despite mod warnings) as if it has anything to do with the price of turnips.

maninasia

You are well out of order with your above posts. Anger is not an excuse.

Yurt accused me of lying. With no proof.

But this is the government data.

Number of PPSNs issued Jan-Sep 2022 (compared with same period in 2019):

Total: 232,503 (+85,756)

Irish Nationals: 53,214 (-657)

Ukrainian Nationals: 55,205 (+54,736)

Other Nationals: 124,084 (+31,677)

Time for him to retract his statements about me, stop asking mods to remove content he doesn't personally like and behave like an adult.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469297#Comment_120469297

You can "think" he's right, but you'll be filed under the wrong column with him if you want.

His big claim: 100k Ukrainians and other asylum seekers over the last year.

That's false. And it's already been proven. It's a completely concocted number.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469341#Comment_120469341

Nobody is angry. Just make sure you have the aloe vera to hand.

maninasia

Accusing me of lying about PPS is unacceptable when the numbers are there in black and white from government websites.

There isn't anything unclear.

Nobody is 'lying'.

Are you accusing the government of lying too?

You just don't like them.

Retract your accusations and learn how to talk with people you don't agree with like a grown adult.

thinkabouit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469170#Comment_120469170

Oh yes because the alternative of the status quo is going so well isn’t it……

Only three minor problem’s of having nowhere to live

A Dail of independent’s would be the best thing to happen this country if managed properly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469329#Comment_120469329

What about “Irish returnees from abroad”. Didn’t you try and include that with new PPS numbers?

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469146#Comment_120469146

You are the liar quoted in black and white here !!!!

Irish nationals accounted for far less than foreign nationals in terms of PPSNs issued. And the number for Irish nationals even trended DOWN in 2022 compared to 2019 from the JAN-SEPT comparison dataset.

Number of PPSNs issued Jan-Sep 2022 (compared with same period in 2019):

Total: 232,503 (+85,756)

Irish Nationals: 53,214 (-657)

Ukrainian Nationals: 55,205 (+54,736)

Other Nationals: 124,084 (+31,677)

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468870#Comment_120468870

That post and the argument in it cant be taken seriously because it contains figures claims that are untrue.

Ten of Swords

Mod - If you're going to rely on these figures to make a point you can post a source for them, otherwise drop it and move on please. Thread is getting bogged down by these back and forth posts sniping about the accuracy of these new PPS numbers

Yurt2

I'll leave a little clue why Broseph's reliance on pps numbers (even though he's bunging-in EU & UK nationals for fun / ignorance) is leading him up the garden path and is further proof doesn't know what he's talking about.

Shareholders in Irish registered companies who take dividends are required to apply for a PPS number by Revenue (and may not ever set foot in Ireland, and there's a lot of them by the way). Short term students who work as a barista and may not even stay a calendar year in Ireland are PPS required. Directors in Irish registered companies are PPS required (even though many live offshore and may never have resided in Ireland). Someone who buys commercial or real property and needs to engage with Revenue needs a PPS number (even though they may live offshore and never set foot in Ireland). What pound shop Farage doesn't realise is a pps number being issued does not equate to long term residence, or even evidence of living in Ireland.

Some 2.5 million PPS numbers have been issued to foreign nationals over the last couple of decades. We haven't a population of 2.5 million non-nationals or even close to it. PPS does not equal residence, an intention or permission to reside in Ireland long-term.

His 100k figure for Ukrainians and aslylum seekers is also 100% verifiable bullsh*t, it's a figure he pulled out of his backside.

high_tower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470946#Comment_120470946

Stop deflecting and bogging the thread down.

also if they are mostly temp visas , for Irish shareholder dividends. Why the MASSIVE uplift this year ???

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471436#Comment_120471436

The only people bogging the thread down are the people posting bogus figures time and again. Sorry not sorry that facts are bogging your mind down.

It's not a MASSIVE uplift. Minus Ukrainian entrants (approx 14k of whom have returned to Ukraine or moved elsewhere in Europe taking the administrative activity CSO data) it's broadly in-line with what we were seeing pre-pandemic for non-EU nationals.

Celtic Tiger pps issuances to non nationals were as high. And once again, pps issuance does not translate to an individual living here long term, or even necissarily living here at all.

maninasia

Once the CSO statistics come out for full year 2022 it's highly likely 2022 was the highest year for immigration in our history. By a long shot. You wont hear it reported much though.

Alteady on an April 2021 to April 2022 comparison basis it was up there before the major influx of Ukranians and uptick in asylum seekers occcurred.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2022/keyfindings/

• The population increased by 88,800 persons, the largest 12-month increase since 2008.
• There were 120,700 immigrants, a 15-year high.
• Of those immigrants; 28,900 were returning Irish nationals, 24,300 were other EU nationals, and 4,500 were UK nationals. 
• The remaining 63,000 immigrants were other nationals including almost 28,000 Ukrainians in the 12-month period. 

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471543#Comment_120471543

Economists would suggest high net immigration is a good thing. It normally indicates a country that is doing extremely well and where there are many actual job vacancies (people are not going to want to move to a country in recession or where jobs are thin on the ground).