Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Bobtheman

Unfortunately I cant see Leo or Martin reforming this system. Eyes on a big EU job.

However if you are housed and that's not an issue for you then a right wing party could get a lot of votes on this issue. Get your vote

Because people see inflation as being caused by external factors.

They see this as fixable by the government. Failure to fix will only help a right wing party.

Personally I would not vote for such a party but I would not be surprised to see a genuinely anti refugee TD elected thís tíme.

They had a particularly poor record in the past but that could change by 2024

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182845#Comment_120182845

But some (and I stress “some” ) asylum seekers may have legitimate claims, so how do you determine who is a genuine refugee without putting them through the system ? Now if you want to argue that the system should be better and more efficient then I doubt anyone would disagree with you, but it’s a complex process, with a lot of legalities to consider, and takes a lot of resources. Process them all at the airport and put the ones who don’t succeed straight back on the plane sounds great, but it’s not really practical.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182916#Comment_120182916

However if you are housed and that's not an issue for you then a right wing party could get a lot of votes on this issue. Get your vote

Surely you should be voting left of centre, more social supports, more social housing?

The policy of privatising our housing "obligations" is a right of centre policy.

You will get certain weak minded individuals voting for the blame everything on Johnny Foreigner candidate, but that isn't going to improve their situation at and in all likely hood make it far worse.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180527#Comment_120180527

What are the numbers for this claim? I looked at Irish deportation orders vs the number of required enforcements of that order and it’s not very high at all, less than 200 deportations and less than 20 enforcements, the rest self deporting voluntarily.

Patrick2010

Matt Cooper had the usual discussion on the recent protests who were all in agreement they are highly organized by the right wing, no one on to post an alternative view.

Read texts saying we could be taking in unvetted criminals, Matts response? Well we have plenty of Irish criminals

Made a big deal of some text from some nutter saying all these immigrants are actually NATO soldiers, his fellow contributors loved jumping on this. I’m quite sure they could have picked rational posts but that wouldn’t have suited the agenda

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182976#Comment_120182976

It's not really a complex process, it's only as complex as we make it.

The individual either meets the criteria or doesn't for refugee status which is well defined. It is up to the applicant to prove they meet the bar.

I agree that same day turnaround is not practical, but fast turnaround is. And a faster appeals process is as well. The really long winded appeals (judicial reviews) are often on the grounds that the wrong decision was arrived at because the process was not followed.

What is really needed is a streamlined, well defined, robust algorithm for processing applicants. No deviation from the process, and no tolerance for stalling on the part of the applicant. If a well structured process is in place then vexatious appeals can be thrown out quickly and judicial reviews wrapped up even faster. A rapid appeals process that presumably generally comes to the same conclusion as the original would certainly be a push rather than a pull factor that we have today. It might encourage these applicants to come here legitimately instead.

It's really a problem of (not) wanting to resource the issue properly. Nothing else.

minimary

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183516#Comment_120183516

I think as well get rid of leave to remain, either you qualify under refugee or subsidary protection or you don't. Leave to remain is a popularity/brass neck contest either you get enough people to kick up a fuss or you blackmail the Minister for Justice by doing something like a hunger strike. Take away the leave to remain process and you've streamlined the process already

minimary

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183008#Comment_120183008

"For example, in 2019, the last year deportations took place, there were more than 2,000 such orders issued, but just 298 were enforced. In 2018, there were 1,117 orders issued and 163 enforced." https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40922036.html

bloopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183381#Comment_120183381

But earlier today Morning Ireland told me it was those dastardly anti vaxxers that were organising the protests.

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182873#Comment_120182873

Plenty countries dont accept asylum seekers. Nothing happens to them....

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183647#Comment_120183647

Hey thanks for the link. I see, I apologize for overlooking. Yes, there are thousands of deportation orders 'open' and only 177 reportedly voluntarily and formally deported, and only 16 have been enforced (were they arrested doing some crime?) Curious.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2022/10/24/177-people-the-subject-of-deportation-orders-have-left-state-so-far-this-year/

There is evidence that a significant number of those issued with a deportation order voluntarily leave the State without notifying the immigration authorities of their departure, he said. As a result the number of live deportation orders does not reflect the number of people in the State without permission.

In the year to date the total number of people who have been removed, or who removed themselves and notified the department of that, is 177.

That comprises 16 enforced deportations; 87 self-deportations; 30 removals under the European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) Regulations 2015 (applicable only to EU citizens and those with EU rights of residency); two persons transferred under the Dublin III regulation (requiring that asylum applications be made in the first EU country of arrival); and 42 people, most of whom would be deemed “vulnerable” individuals, who were subject of voluntary returns.

The cost of flights associated with enforced deportations and EU removals from January 2022 to date was €147,148, excluding voluntary returns.

Provisional operational costs associated with the investigation of relevant cases and removal from the State in relation to the 16 enforced deportations were €152,550.

Operational costs associated with EU removals are not currently available, the spokesman said.

The voluntary return costs to June 2022, the latest information available, amounted to €438,512. That sum includes pre-return counselling, flights, medical supports, escorts and a post-return reintegration grant.

The non-EU destinations for deportees included Barbados, Albania , Bangladesh, Brazil , Mauritius, Malawi, Philippines and Georgia. EU destinations included Poland, Lithuania, Romania, Germany, France, Slovakia, Belgium, Sweden, Spain and Greece.

bmc58

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182976#Comment_120182976

How can people seeking asylum arrive in Ireland off a plane with no passports?I'm sure laws are asylum seekers must be processed in the first country they manage to get to.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183782#Comment_120183782

I think someone mentioned Japan earlier as part of this point.

Are they subject to the same treaties, in question, as Japan is? Or what other countries are being ellipsis'd to here

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184086#Comment_120184086

The bizarre thing about Japan and their anti-immigration and anti-refugee stance is that they are depopulating at an absolutely frightening rate. Their population is forecast to drop from the current 125 million to 106 million by 2050 and to 75 million by 2100 (less than half of where they are now).

Goodness knows what this will do to their economy. By 2050, it is predicted that 40% of the Japanese population will be over the age of 65.

Grassy Knoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120178533#Comment_120178533

I’m afraid this is misleading despite what the league position might say. This reflects consumption which in turn represents income less savings. For Ireland our measured savings ratio has been elevated so this needs to be considered in tandem with consumption to in turn get a true sense of income. According to data we are saving relatively more vs other EU states, there fore our table position

added to this there is actually a separate ongoing debate as to whether the CSO data understate our consumption i.e. we may be spending / consuming more than CSO data indicate. Net point is we are a wealthy country whatever way you seek to cut it.

DebDynamite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183640#Comment_120183640

Whether or not someone’s application was successful or not, all they had to do was brazen it out for two years at the expense of the taxpayer, and under Helen McEntee’s wonderful regularization scheme (amnesty) were eligible to apply for legal residence status which would then pave the way to apply for full citizenship.

Even better, the application fee was free, while the illegal immigrants - who don’t get anything handed to them - had to pay €500, but had to be here for 4 years!

No wonder all the “asylum seekers” are flocking here, they want to have all their ducks in a row for when the next amnesty comes around 🙄

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184206#Comment_120184206

Pride cometh before the fall

maebee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184085#Comment_120184085

Indeed. They would have to have produced a passport to board a plane to Ireland. Why would a genuine person fleeing a war-torn country feel the need to destroy their passport as they arrive in Ireland?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184871#Comment_120184871

They would have to have produced a passport to board a plane to Ireland.

Needs verification. Are origin countries actually enforcing customs.

maebee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184890#Comment_120184890

Even if "Origin Countries" are not enforcing customs, EU countries certainly are. As there are no direct flights from Afghanistan to Ireland, this person had to fly to Ireland from some airport in Europe.

https://uk.knews.media/news/asylum-seeker-without-accommodation-is-left-to-sleep-on-streets-the-irish-times/

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184206#Comment_120184206

Extremely smart and innovative people, they will adapt through technological solutions

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184977#Comment_120184977

I mean these are good hypotheses and all, but unless the EU/Ireland commissions an actual investigation to confirm and determine how the hell anyone could have got on without a passport, it's all our speculation, IDK how easy or difficult getting to a connecting flight is in an airport here or there or there or what customs steps are on the way

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185030#Comment_120185030

Indeed they are. I’ve no doubt the Japanese will innovate their way out of their demographic issues.

Furthermore, they are starting to get serious about the low fertility rate. They plan to implement a new raft of measures this year to encourage younger people to focus on family formation. Ultimately, their goal is to drive up the fertility rate to 1.8, a rate that Ireland exceeded in the first two QRs of 2022.

LeoB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180943#Comment_120180943

Not quite. If the USA want they could empty the states of illegal Irish tomorrow morning. Yes a lot who went in the 70s and 80s were fleeing joblessness but as pointed out there were no handouts, no freebies JUST VERY HARD WORK. Here in Ireland its different. They demand and they receive. A warm bed, food, allowance and free legal aid to challenge deportation orders. If you cant see the difference you just dont want to see it.

As I have said on many occassions I welcome people here who will contribute to society. I have benefited from surgery twice in last where 90% of staff were immigrants and great assets to our country. They went through a process and passed. Our shops and hospitality would collapse without migrant workers. Yet we just allow scammers with London accents claim asylum!

The problem I see going forward is how we will keep these people? Pensions etc? Will our minister do a Michael Noonan and raid pension funds people have worked for?

Our ridiculous approach to immigration and our open border policy is feeding into a growing far right movement and will ultimately lead to serious unrest.

UsBus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183381#Comment_120183381

100%.

Heard this on Matt Cooper. They basically tried to sum up the whole narrative of protests around this one text as racists believing the asylum seekers were plants. Not one text read out as you say around people worried about housing, health overcrowding. Pathetic from Cooper, the media are straying blindly away from what people are genuinely concerned about. Seems to be one big propaganda campaign from government and media outlets as the EU have instructed them to enforce migration at all costs.

maebee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185036#Comment_120185036

I think you're missing something here OH. They don't get on a flight in the EU without a passport. Frequently the passport gets ripped up or burned on the flight to Ireland and ends up in the "Rubbish please" bag of the Ryanair/Aer Lingus Flight Attendant's bag.

LeoB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179894#Comment_120179894

Specifically the Garda and the state do have the resources to put down any riots that could take place. We have a very well trained army who could quite easiily support the Gardai. However Veradkar and Martin wouldnt look good to EU masters.

hotmail.com

The scale of the protests are unprecedented.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185126#Comment_120185126

That would never work in the US - the passenger manifest, the US Customs logs, booth photography, everyone on board the plane could be identified who boarded the plane. Why can't the EU?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185104#Comment_120185104

Who cares what that woke Wally Matt cooper thinks?, guys a total ham