Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608029#Comment_120608029

And one of their own TDs down there in cahoots with the protestors, how do FFG manage that?

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120607944#Comment_120607944

I think the only thing holding them all in line is the fear of being called a racist. When that word though is over used and abused, as is increasingly the case, it loses its power.

I think the rural independents are likely going to take a hard line on this as it will be politically expedient for them. FF might turn too under a new leader.

It really depends on the summer. A long hot one is unpredictable in its political outcomes.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608035#Comment_120608035

Perhaps the TD believes he should be representing the people who voted for him.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608050#Comment_120608050

Are we finally seeing the FF disintegration?

Same fella was out last winter saying how awful it was to have the poor refugees sleeping in tents.

Weeks later he's voting confidence in the housing minister.

Now this.

Maybe one of his voters can explain that logic?

0ph0rce0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120607801#Comment_120607801

We helped the Ukrainians like we should have, All the government pals and cronies were cleaning up.

Now all their other mates want a piece of the pie so they opened the floodgates.

Remember your one I mentioned way back who suddenly started a company to house refugees in the ESB building, then the next day everything deleted and boards.ie admins saying the could sue for defamation or some shite to that effect.

She had her twitter full of FFG shite and retweets, Google search and images with her pictured with Simon Harris and the next day her twitter and any google search to her name Gone.

It's about money now for me and nothing more. Greed. Once the pockets get lined and the mates looked after they couldn't give a flying **** about us.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608062#Comment_120608062

If you can explain the logic of Irish TD's you're smarter than I am.

I mean we have one minister flooding the country with people who have nowhere to sleep. These people are idiots.

72sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120607801#Comment_120607801

The agenda pursued by FFG has been entirely dictated by US Big Business and EU. Our public service and media has been entirely infected by NGO's international agenda (that can afford to ignore local issues like housing and health). We're not unique, look at all those earnest RTE & IT stories warning us about other EU countries also turning towards "sinister" "populist" regimes. 

Vardakar, Martin, O'Gorman et al already know Irish voters won't reward them, but that does not mean they are not expecting to be rewarded elsewhere - and that is their exclusive focus now. This is not a 3d-chess strategy to stitch up SF so that FFG can swiftly return to power.

charlie_says

Get head in trough and follow the whip.

That's about it really

tastyt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120607743#Comment_120607743

This is the most ridiculous argument in all of this nonsense . Someone said it the other day on here that summed this argument up perfectly so I’m taking it from them

If you get a puncture and you try to deal with it and fix it , you don’t go and slash the other tyres on your car and say “ **** it I had one puncture anyway I might aswell ruin the whole thing “

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608232#Comment_120608232

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b0ftfKFEJg

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608136#Comment_120608136

While the government does follow very US business friendly policies and additionally does seem to be first to fall into line on EU policy initiatives (I don't think this government or any of the last 15 years would have tried to negotiate opt outs in any EU treaty like Maastricht) I cannot really see how asylum policy really comes into play under those headings. US multinationals are not exactly filling their factories with AS.

I do think that activists have a strong hold on public life and the apparatus of the State but policy is generally politically expedient also. Where it isn't, there is usually a greater good or goal that all can recognise, even those that oppose it (e.g. location of a landfill).

Martin and Varadkar are at the stage of their careers where they don't have to worry about future reward - they will pass onto that regardless of what they do.

I think it's more likely that the decision making system had been gummed up by do gooder thinking and a bubble mentality. Possibly also a feeling that they want to be on the right side of history too. Central players too don't want to change it as their funding depends on this remaining an ongoing problem.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608326#Comment_120608326

I wouldn't underestimate the power of the NGO lobbying on government policy.

There's a reason there's so many NGO's in Ireland, in most cases, a great number of NGO's doing exactly the same thing. The funding they receive, and the power they have in the media, has a lot of sway.

When is the last time you heard anyone other than a politician or an NGO rep discuss anything to do with refugees/asylum seekers on radio or TV?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608326#Comment_120608326

Good post. Martin will get a massive one-off and pension alright and he finally got his Taoiseach status. His rewards are set. Possibly a soft EU job too like Gilmore. He also knows that he may not be liked my many but he won't be hated to the extent Bertie was. Irrespective I doubt he cares what people think with 2 years of govt to go. I expect he thinks the housing/refugee crisis will pass just like Covid did. But it won't.

Thou

The, EU has never forced Ireland to take in refugees or immigrants. The opt in opt out clause, is bound by justice and immigration measures enshrined in the Lisbon Treaty. Our participation which was decided and undertaken by the Oireachtas is on a voluntary basis.

Also link to AMIF (migration fund) below to which we signed up to last year.

https://ireland.representation.ec.europa.eu/news-and-events/news/ireland-voluntarily-agrees-take-part-eu-schemes-resettle-refugees-2021-02-28_en

Following Ireland’s formal notification of 7 February 2022 to opt-in for participating in AMIF, the Commission confirmed the participation of Ireland in AMIF in Decision (EU) 2022/507 of 29 March 2022. Ireland therefore participates in AMIF as of 7 February 2022. Irish beneficiaries are thus eligible alongside other EU countries, apart from Denmark who is not taking part in AMIF, in accordance with Articles 1 and 2 of Protocol No 22 on the position of Denmark, annexed to the Treaty of the European Union (TEU) and to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU)

https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/funding/asylum-migration-and-integration-funds/

Patrick2010

They got the Lisbon treaty voted through in large measure to the negotiated opt out clauses. Unfortunately we were reliant on our government actually execising those opt outs. We could easily say to the EU now that we could have exercised our opt outs but chose not and have taken many refugees but unfortunately we have no more accommodation . Instead all we hear is that we have no choice.

Thou

Follow the money as they say, nice oul fund on offer (until 2027) plenty of profit to be made for NGOs, state and federal authorities, local public bodies, humanitarian organisations, private and public law companies, education and research, the list goes on I'm sure.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608492#Comment_120608492

There are numerous contributors to this thread (and other related threads on boards) that are convinced (or at least claim to be) that we have no other choice but to take unlimited numbers of refugees under EU law. These people refuse to accept any alternative. It's almost as if they couldn't justify the current influx any other way.

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608532#Comment_120608532

And plenty of that money will, by pure coincidence, find its way into the pockets of friends and family members of government ministers.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608396#Comment_120608396

I suspect FFG are banking on the next economic downturn taking the heat out of the housing crisis, with plenty of young people and migrant workers emigrating.

I think they've weighed up the political cost of homelessness, all of us (including the state) being gouged on property and rent prices, refugees being carted around like cattle, and whatever fuel that provides for the far-right, and figured it's worth it.

More important to them is pushing the privatization agenda and protecting their bases assets when the next crash comes.

Build homes not hate.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608037#Comment_120608037

I think the rural independents are likely going to take a hard line on this as it will be politically expedient for them. FF might turn too under a new leader.

But individiual rural independents have been making disobliging noises about immigrants for years without affecting the political consensus on the issue

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30971487.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/noel-grealish-defends-comments-about-african-migrants-remittances-1.4167637

Most of those guys are probably confident they will be re-elected without going full Tommy Robinson

If there was a cluster of new independents who made opposition to immigration their main plank, particularly in Dublin, looking likely to be elected that might shift broader political thinking on the issue but I'm not seeing that...

72sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608326#Comment_120608326

Varadkar and Martin are not executing deeply unpopular policies out of pure malice for the Irish people. They are only doing so becuase US/EU tells them to. What's more, we've also become a puffed-up little nation and our leaders can be flattered into just about doing/saying anything to appear on the world's stage.

Tony Blair was 54 when he left power and look at his ongoing global "diplomacy" 16 years later. Varadkar is only 44, think about how much more "care" he could still deliver ;-)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120604219#Comment_120604219

Apparently there are still approx 80 Ukrainians PER DAY arriving.

Begs the question. How did they manage to survive up until now? Or were they in other countries but lured by the OTT supports still being offered here?

In Poland you get a few months support then u r expected to get up and running yourself.

Majority of these people will never go back when this war finally ends.

dmakc

How long more will the 800/m rent support last? Or is it indefinite, realistically it can't go forever?

MegamanBoo

https://www.thejournal.ie/84-homeless-people-dead-2019-6070168-May2023/

84 homeless dead in 2019. Assuming similar figures for 2022-2023 do you think these people would have been saved were it not for refugees?

I can understand the sentiment behind 'looking after our own first', but we weren't doing that anyway.

It's not like looking after the homeless was next on the government todo list before they were distracted by the war in Ukraine.

Build homes not hate.

US3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120607734#Comment_120607734

There is Ukrainians living in Ireland that have went back to Ukraine for holidays, visit family, dental work ect. These people should not be allowed back in to Ireland as they obviously think Ukraine is safe enough.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608735#Comment_120608735

Look at the homeless problem in America as an example. It has increased over the years but there has been no easy solution found in either Republican or Democrat lead states and it all comes down to some people have major problems with drugs or alcohol that make them unable to be housed in hostels or shelters.

I don't think its always down to the population being selfish or governments being callous, some people just can not be saved from themselves.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601873#Comment_120601873

They should be more concerned about their obligations to Irish citizens and taxpayers..

hymenelectra

Bigger questions need to be asked like.

The population keeps going up artificially, yet services keep going downhill. Hospitals worse than ever, half the GPS needed, housing is practically nonexistent for most, schools squashed, not enough teachers.

The infamous Irish economy keeps growing, gdp wise, supposedly more money than ever, yet services and infrastructure are equally worse than ever in many regards.

What in the effing hell is going on? Is this the biggest scam job Ireland has ever seen? Is this some kind of gigantic money laundering scheme?

Is there some rational explanation that ties these things together?

Housing is on its knees, but the government seem perfectly content to get as many extra people in as possible???

The development of shanty towns hasn't caused a political blink, except when torn down.

One horse towns having their populations practically doubled overnight with not an iota given by the government as to how it makes sense.

How does any of this, any of it at all, make the first bit of sense?

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608776#Comment_120608776

Unfortunately we cant go the way of the UK of limiting all forms of migration and slowing down our economy as we have to service our significant national debt. Whenever Ireland becomes less attractive to business we will be in big trouble,

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608703#Comment_120608703

The dangerous thing is that these are the sets of circumstances where a far right party can emerge and hoover up a good chunk of that 84%.

But the far right parties are already there, they just haven't registered any uptick in support AFAIK. And given the current crisis has been going on for over a year you have to ask when is that going to happen.

The key point here IMO is that supposed threat from the far right is not going to motivate the establishment parties to change their position until it starts manifesting in the real world...