Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Bobtheman

Anybody with a cursory knowledge of history knows that the Russians must be contained

However Ukraine is a big big country and one wonders if some are not using it as an excuse to just get out.

In other words a lot of Ukraine is stíl safe

It is incredible that Irish people can't afford to go to the doctor but refugees get a medical card?

What I'm trying to get at is that you should be able to critically ask questions without being seen as totally against refugees

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170511#Comment_121170511

How many went illegally??

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171045#Comment_121171045

The vast majority of refugees in 2023 aren't 'illegal' either. It's not against any law for a person to claim asylum in another country.

ECookie13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170511#Comment_121170511

As people constantly point out, there is a difference. We emigrated and lived like dogs for decades, grafting and working for every penny, building towns from the ground up.

We did not arrive on a country's doorstep and get free housing, free healthcare, free cars, free welfare, free travel cards. Need I go on?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170045#Comment_121170045

Is that not the definition of right wing? Anti-Abortion, Anti-LGBT, Anti-Imigration, Capitalists, gun lovers, Nazis etc. etc

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170511#Comment_121170511

https://www.irishstar.com/culture/nostalgia/what-first-days-america-were-29986612 - Appreciate its the star but it shows a synopsis of what the Irish faced when they arrived in the US.

They did not arrive to welfare, free housing and food(With the exception of some Irish/religious organisations or groups)

Your latter example - the US and Australia wanted people to build their countries up, generally skilled people, you cant just move to either now, granted it was easier before - its still a silly example and nothing compared to inward migration in Ireland.

Not agreeing or disagreeing how we deal with refugees currently - your analogy just does not stack up at all.

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170511#Comment_121170511

Not comparable at all.

Also to this day if you are an illegal in the US and are caught without a green card working or over staying your visa you will be deported.

Gatling

Meanwhile in France a several women needed a journalist to rescue them not from people traffickers but from themselves after they snuck on to an Irish truck thinking it was going to the UK or Here, instead they were heading to Italy which wasn't their preferred choice destination ,

https://www.sundayworld.com/news/irish-news/six-women-rescued-from-irish-registered-lorry-in-france-after-texting-bbc-reporter-to-help-them/a286163832.html

Jizique

Sweden turns to military to help police combat gang crime | Financial Times (ft.com)

Sweden is considering using its military to help police in the battle against gang crime, following a sharp increase in deadly shootings and bomb attacks in the Scandinavian country.

Police chiefs have said that Sweden is facing its most serious domestic security situation since the second world war as immigrant drug gangs engage in a bloody conflict. Police believe the gangs are increasingly using children to commit the crimes, as those under 18 often go unpunished or receive low sentences from the courts.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172387#Comment_121172387

Yup, genuine cases right there - not at all welfare shopping I'm sure! And after all the drama I'm sure they'll be free to no doubt try again.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172563#Comment_121172563

Wast that lorry that a number Vietnamese died of the cold in, in the UK owned by an Irish company too? How do people just sneak onto a lorry?

Can illegal immigrants get welfare, I thought only those who receive asylum can?

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170511#Comment_121170511

This ridiculous argument again....

The Irish who emigrated either found work and shelter, or they starved, got sick, and died.

There were no supports of free welfare, accommodation, medical care etc waiting for them when they got off the boat.

Can this completely inaccurate and false comparison be put to bed?

*Better not let it sound like an anecdote or it'll get deleted!

It must be awful what is happening in schools...a lot of schools must be absolutely bursting at the seams...l wonder how a lot of schools are coping with a massive influx of Ukrainians and international PA, I wonder where they are physically putting the children...I wonder are a lot of schools struggling...so many schools have Irish pupils in the minority that they actually withdraw the Irish pupils for their subjects! and worse moving schools as they in such a minority...I wonder are there a lot of non verbal ASD Ukrainian and IPA pupils in schools with huge needs and no paperwork and no extra staff being allocated to support their needs...I wonder are staff being put under immense strain and their work loads being increased to breaking point...

I wonder, I wonder...

Criminal!

ShamNNspace

@[Deleted User] from my personal experience two members of my family, one a nurse, the other a teacher are returning down under where they had lived for 10 years previously, after giving it a fair go here for the last few years, had enough of it quality of life just wasn't there for the experience they brought and too much pressure in their work lives, they're not the only ones by a long shot... Government collectively whistling past the graveyard

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1001/1408349-stradbally-ukraine-refugees/

Wonder where they’ll be put with nowhere to put them

Mental state of affairs

lmimmfn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121181569#Comment_121181569

You have to ask the question that if we have no accommodation, WTF are we doing allowing more immigrants when these people would be better off in another country where they are treated better or moved to a part of Ukraine that's safe and recieving funding from Ireland.

Our politicians deserve to be wiped out next year, and absolute disgrace of a situation.

US3

The current government are at 41.5% in the latest polls. Sinn Féin are 33% This madness isn't stopping. There will be no wipe out.

Any poll about refugees/ips I've seen is 80%+ against it.

This could be the first election that I don't bother voting at all. Any party that's against this madness are also anti abortion/anti vax ect.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121181569#Comment_121181569

The vast vast majority of Ukranian refugees are in the spare rooms of peoples primary residences or holiday homes and there is currently an oversupply of good people willing to put Ukranians up

The tents at Stradbally are only a holding area as logistically it's a pain to organise all this but it makes a great headline to suggest they were meant to be there long-term

_Kaiser_

Spotted this in the pre-Budget kite-flying/speculation earlier... full SUSI grants are to be offered for single parents who want to study:

Beneficiaries will include many Ukrainian refugees who have children with them here but whose spouses are fighting at home. In many cases they will simply take a little longer to complete their course or degree.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/budget-2024-squeezed-middle-families-set-to-be-biggest-winners-next-week/a648978584.html

The freebies just keep on coming! We're already paying full welfare, accommodation, and other supports - now we're going to pay for these people to go and study here too... which of course will lead to the inevitable situations where they won't be going home at all because they're in education, and (the justification that'll be given that) shure wouldn't we want them to pay back the effort by working here after etc.... to say nothing about the increased pressure for places it'll cause as well of course.

It's absolutely ridiculous to be including what are supposed to be people here for the short term.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183919#Comment_121183919

You have no proof how long they will be in Stradbally or if those numbers will increase .'' The vast majority are in private residences '' rubbish see the link

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/fp/p-aui/arrivalsfromukraineinirelandseries10/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183919#Comment_121183919

Its not a good idea. There will be investigations in the years to come of how the government put them in tents and the government will have to apologise for their treatment.

TokTik

Kiev is safe enough for every EU foreign minister to travel to and hold meetings. Why not for Ukr citizens to head back?

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183919#Comment_121183919

Nah nice try but you’re either grossly misinformed or outright lying (I’d believe either, honestly)

About 15% of Ukrainian refugees are being put up in private residences.

The other 85% or “vast vast majority” you were referring to are being put up in hotels, hostels, tents, and other various emergency accommodations.

“As of 06 June 2023, 13,699 [of 84,613] arrivals from Ukraine were living in private accommodations, where 6,223 hosts were in receipt of Accommodation Recognition Payment (ARP) for accommodating people from Ukraine.” https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/fp/p-aui/arrivalsfromukraineinirelandseries10/

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183394#Comment_121183394

And most of the remainder (Soc Dems, PBP etc.) are even more pro-immigrant-refugee...

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184710#Comment_121184710

Not safe - they only announced the meeting was even happening after the ministers had arrived, for fear it might be attacked or disrupted by Russia. That's far more dangerous than Belfast was even at the height of the Troubles.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184954#Comment_121184954

Well there's a huge part of the country to the west that they could try in that case. As I've said before, it's like someone in Kerry fleeing to Greece because of a bombing in Belfast - or going to Greece rather than maybe Donegal or anywhere else in Ireland first.

I have sympathy and empathy for their situation and we all agree Russia is in the wrong here - but I feel zero obligation or responsibility for solving the issue. This conflict could go on for several more years and I'm honestly far more concerned about OUR country and its citizens and the negative effects this conflict is having here.

We have our own problems - largely self-inflicted as a result of mismanagement, waste and the lack of oversight but many of which are getting significantly worse by the month as a result of the added pressures on our limited resources.

That's where our priorities lie. THEN we can worry about saving the planet. 🙄

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184623#Comment_121184623

I imagine that apology will come after the Russian govt apologises for trying to blow their brains out

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184850#Comment_121184850

Ok so our figures are different but at least we agree then that there are no Ukrainian refugees taking up the homes that homeless in this country need

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185141#Comment_121185141

You clearly haven't been paying attention to the bombings in Lviv or Kyiv lately then...

Have you offered a room in your home to "our" homeless? Considering you are more concerned with their well being than that of people whose homes are literally being bombed as I type this

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185141#Comment_121185141

Can't agree on that. Kyiv and Lviv are hit by cruise missiles regularly, air raid sirens going off all the time etc. There's nothing remotely normal about that. Imagine if Dublin or Cork were regularly being hit by cruise missiles sent from Britain. People would be hugely stressed and not at all relaxed, probably even have PTSD.

US3

Mícheál Martin is currently in Kiev. He would not be there if it wasn't safe.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185303#Comment_121185303

No, our figures don’t “differ” - there are those that reflect reality (mine) and those that are in your imagination. I’m not for a second going to get into your Trumpesque attempt at “alternative facts” nonsense.

We can agree that you were talking out of your arse, and were caught red arsed.

Re the Ukrainians and their accommodation I’m not sure precisely what the breakdown of their emergency accommodation is, or how it affects access to housing for our own homeless.

However I do know they are occupying a large portion of our available tourist accommodation, which drives up prices for visitors and makes us a far less attractive destination. This has further deleterious knock on effects for local businesses and restaurants in these areas that rely on tourism.

We’ve just allocated another billion more quid to pay for that - do you understand the concept of opportunity cost? That’s a billion quid that could be spent on our own housing infrastructure, but won’t be.

grumpyperson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185414#Comment_121185414

It's safe for ministers not for locals. The Russian's don't bomb the politicians. The UN figures actually show that relative to other wars a lesser proportion of civilians are being killed which is little compensation to anyone whose loved ones were killed.

I'm sure Michael Martin is very safe. He'll be back looking for a round of applause for his bravery but there's no way he'd visit Russian occupied Luhansk where 14,000 were killed prior to the war. The little **** is doing everything he can to get us into NATO.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185634#Comment_121185634

Fairly sure our results do in fact differ as yours say one thing and mine say another, whether yours is true or mine are is irrelevant to that point and we still agree that there are no Ukrainian refugees taking up the homes that homeless in this country need...

Yes 1bn spent on protecting Ukranians, sounds like a lot of money but wasn't our bank bailout €60bn? Most of the 1bn you refer to is coming from the EU to aid Ukranians so we wouldn't be able to spend it on homeless accomodation in any case

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185414#Comment_121185414

They hit Kyiv about once every 3-4 months. So try to understand that going there for a day or 2 the odds are that you might be ok but living there permanently, not so much

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185669#Comment_121185669

Well I don’t actually know what your figures say because you haven’t provided any - you’ve just made a general statement that the vast majority are in private accommodation without anything to support that.

So yeah, I don’t think you’ve any claim to what is “true” at all. Gimme some figures or I’ll conclude that you’re just making stuff up.

I’m also interested in educating myself better on how that 1bn is actually going to come from the EU and not us, I’m totally ignorant on that but I’d like to learn more if you have anything I could read on it

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185666#Comment_121185666

I think there's a degree of truth to the politicians part of your post as was proven by the Russians knowing about Joe Bidens visit a few months back. I assume the Russians killing a foreign leader, however accidental it might be, could be seen as an act of War against another country.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185742#Comment_121185742

Enjoy educating yourself... If I provide you with these details it would be me educating you and I'd rather not take that away from you

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185759#Comment_121185759

So none of those figures for your first claim and nothing on your latter claim that I can’t find anything about.

Almost as if they don’t exist. Colour me shocked.

Only a partisan ideologue is happy to blatantly lie to others in championing their dogma. If you’re in the right you shouldn’t need to lie.

I’d be embarrassed of myself if I couldn’t be honest about the facets of my beliefs, good and bad.

grumpyperson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185759#Comment_121185759

Sorry to burst your bubble.

https://ec.europa.eu/european-social-fund-plus/en/news/ireland-react-eu-support-2022

i think we've set aside a total of 6.5 billion for Ukraine refugees.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/irish-government-sets-aside-5-5-billion-for-supporting-ukrainian-refugees-t2fh3sqvf

an extra billion added to the 5.5 billion. 53 million doesn't cover it.

The US that supported the 2014 coup and armed the ultra nationalist Azov brigade on Russia's border pays none of those supports to Ukrainian refugees.

Anyway, the money to refugees is at least going to the right people unlike the weapons the US send, a shame that NATO keeps blocking a ceasefire. The UK proportionately does very little for refugees despite being a huge backer of the war.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185744#Comment_121185744

I can’t see how it could be an act of war. Ukraine and Russia are at war, so Ukraine should be considered an active war zone. That’s what we’re told when they turn up here with their hands out.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185342#Comment_121185342

Again, sympathy but no sense of responsibility. Bad things happen all over the world every day unfortunately. Most of them we never hear about, but it's not our responsibility either to solve the problems.

We can only do so much and we have our own issues to solve and that's where our priorities need to be.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185303#Comment_121185303

See my post above. It's not our responsibility to resolve the issue nor should we be making our own problems worse by taking on more than we can handle as we've done.

As for your last point - emotive nonsense though it is, I am not in a position to do that because I'm one of those who is paying for all these efforts and gets very little in return.

But that's indeed where our efforts should be going (solving our own problems) , not into making the situation worse for everyone - homeless, working, native or otherwise.

Again I feel sympathy and empathy for the situation in Ukraine and its people, but zero sense of responsibility or liability. We have our own problems to deal with.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172686#Comment_121172686

Actually, I can't blame the poster. Our minister for justice is still at the same thing...

Ireland’s welcoming of 3,000 new citizens is an important reciprocation over the millions of Irish who emigrated over previous centuries, Minister for Justice Helen McEntee has said..

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/new-citizens-important-reciprocation-over-millions-who-emigrated-mcentee-1533759.html

... Just keep adding to the numbers and pressures. What could go wrong??

But I suppose we shouldn't expect much more from a person so dangerously under qualified and who seems to be actively trying to undermine the decision made on citizenship in the referendum on same.

Great that she had time to pop over for a press conference while the Gardai are threatening another blue flu though!

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186117#Comment_121186117

Favourite part of her job she said.

165000 receiving citizenship since 2011 seems a bit high for a small country.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186528#Comment_121186528

165k over 12 years, less than 14k/year on average or 0.3% a year. The USA had 967,500 new naturalised citizens this year or about the same % and I'd consider achieving naturalisation there to be quite difficult

Regardless, as the article correctly states it's about sending a message that these people are welcome.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186617#Comment_121186617

Well you go ahead and welcome them and take in a few while at it , would be more useful than your effort here .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=nngSfwKAFcI

Absolutely 1 million per cent agree with this man. Poland have taken zero Muslim refugees and 2 million refugees from Ukraine who are working! YES! WORKING! Not being handed a cushy life of hand outs, which will cripple their state and infrastructure and services.

Also, they haven't created a sense of serious entitlement in schools, that we have children and parents showing up with translators on their IPhonez on school doorsteps demanding their child is put into the UKR only class. WTF!

Also, I know of all the ASD classes from the north to the south of this county and not one school has a spare place left. Where will the ASD Irish born and bred go next year? They will not get a place in a special class...this government don't prioritise you!

'I don't care if you call me racist...I just care about the safety of my family'. Amen brother. AMEN.

Patrick2010

According to RTÉ lunchtime news we’re housing 2,500 from the war zone in Albania

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187792#Comment_121187792

I don't think that word means what you think it does....

I grant you, it and a lot of other -ists and -isms have been thrown around so much in the last few years that they have become essentially meaningless.

It's not "racist" to ask questions or raise concerns about the current situation. It's not "racist" to be concerned about the effect on one's family or children or community. It's not "racist" to ask why strangers are getting more or preferential supports than those already living or born here - especially when those latter groups actively lose out as a result.

Your other mistake is that the only ones concerned about "racists" are those grandstanding for an audience of like-minded misguided (to be nice about it) individuals. In the real world beyond social media, people don't give a toss about such dog-whistling nonsense. They have far more real and pressing concerns to be dealing with.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188654#Comment_121188654

Isn't it great that people can feel safe coming here, just as we did to other countries during the great famine and recession?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188853#Comment_121188853

Actually I know exactly what the word racist means but thanks for the non-explainer

Marcos

Some people on here may, or may not want to, remember a fella called Peter Dube who was wanted for a triple murder in Zimbabwe, but turned up in City West in June. It was probably misinformation, I mean there was no way that the authorities here would ever let a triple murderer just rock up and claim asylum, would they?

Well, the Zimbabwean press heard about it and raised the matter with the authorities here. It turns out he was arrested and has now been deported to Mozambique some time last month. Why Mozambique you ask? Well if the Sunday Mail in Harare is to be believed, he escaped Zimbabwe and used false Mozambican papers to claim asylum in Ireland. He is said to have got those via a syndicate producing fake papers in South Africa and Eswatini.

I must have missed the Irish media reports on his deportation. Or is the deportation of a triple murderer not newsworthy anymore?