Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661324#Comment_120661324

Yep or the one talking about leaving Scotland to come here, or the one whose comment is "500€ Dublin"

Also the ones telling their compatriots NOT to come because they worry the Government will follow the UK and implement restrictions and end the gravy train for the ones already here.

Yes, those poor people! God help them!! 🙄

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661613#Comment_120661613

Of course countries have the right to legislate for their own immigration control. Ireland does.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661826#Comment_120661826

Can you point to the relevant legislation that declares applicants for asylum to be legal residents of Ireland?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661872#Comment_120661872

Seriously? Asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants & I'm not sure why you keep suggesting that they are.

Ireland ratified the Geneva convention on refugees in the 1950s. We then legislated for that, in the Refugee Act 1996.

The immigration act 2004, defines an illegal immigrants at section 5

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/1/section/5/enacted/en/html#sec5

As you can see it does not apply to asylum seekers.

Can you now admit you were wrong and move on?

DebDynamite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661235#Comment_120661235

At one stage after one of them listing all the benefits, the other one goes “pinch me now”… she couldn’t believe all the money you can get when you don’t even work. I’ve said it before: getting leave to remain here, in a 1st world, English speaking country, with the most generous welfare in the world, is like winning the lottery for some people from poorer parts of the world.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662140#Comment_120662140

That’s evading the question. I asked you where asylum applicants are declared legal residents of Ireland, not where the provisions of the act would be temporarily set aside. That’s not the same thing.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662231#Comment_120662231

What?

I have directed you to the section that defines illegal immigrants, as you can see it does not apply to asylum seekers among others.

Which part do you not understand? No matter how many times you post the same lie, it doesn't make it True.

You're either posting in extremely bad faith or you have trouble understanding?

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661726#Comment_120661726

Mother of God, anyone coming here from Scotland should be sent right back, equally anyone coming from England,France, Germany, you know countries with no wars.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661235#Comment_120661235

The authors of that video and similar should be tracked down, prosecuted and expelled.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662262#Comment_120662262

Let's spell it out - people by and large are not angry with genuine asylum seekers. We are pissed off at f**king economic migrants who want to ignore the legitimate visa system and who are blatantly pretending to be asylum seekers.

Do YOU defend this practice? Please state if you do.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662285#Comment_120662285

The section you provided listed people to which the provisions of the act would not apply. It could be translated in layman’s terms as follows:

Non nationals who are illegally in the state but who have submitted an undetermined application for asylum, are exempt from the provisions of this act.

As stated, there is no attempt to declare asylum applicants to be legal residents as you appear to believe, without the slightest attempt to substantiate.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662331#Comment_120662331

Defend fraudulent claims? No I absolutely do not. Of course not.

the term economic migrant is ridiculous, everyone that moves to a different country is an economic migrant, except maybe the backpackers having the craic for a few years.

I believe in the law. I believe claims should be investigated properly and anyone presenting with fraudulent claims should be deported.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662331#Comment_120662331

I'll go further than that - enough is enough!

As I said yesterday, of course I have sympathy for genuine refugees, whether it be war, persecution or real threats to their lives they are fleeing from... BUT... that doesn't mean that I feel ANY obligation to resettle them, finance and support them, or put my own access to those same essential services and supports when I need them at risk.

Ireland already gives a fortune in foreign aid and even peacekeeping resources (yes we are even risking Irish lives in some cases!) to support the poorer/more unstable areas of the world. We live in an island of 5 million people, with an economy hugely dependent on FDI, and which by the way is still massively indebted from the last crash regardless of the crowing by Leo and co about our supposed wealth - wealth which exists mostly on paper/in computers and based on those same FDI companies and their tax avoidance measures.

We have faced a health crisis for decades and it's actually gotten worse now with even private insurance holders unable to get seen at reasonable timeframes, housing has now become critical and we have an entire generation who will probably never own their own home as a result and be left to face the uncertainty and insecurity of the rental market. Then there's the issues with other essential infrastructure and services, the rural/urban divides and so on and so forth - and all overseen by a broken political system of cronyism, apathy and - more recently - one which has managed to sidestep even elections through backroom Confidence and Supply and Coalition deals to keep the incumbents in power regardless of who you vote for!

Put simply, we have more than enough of our own problems right here and now that we need to sort out before we can even THINK about helping others - which we are already doing as well! To the point of inviting them in to sleep in tents on the streets!

Charity begins at home and we as citizens, taxpayers, and the electorate have a right to expect not only to be heard and listened to by those who we elect to WORK FOR US - not the other way around, and not for anyone else - and to expect them to put our needs and the needs of our families and communities first. That's not racism, or xenophobia, or any other -ist or -ism... it's the other side of the social contract we all enter into as citizens of this country.

So again, enough is enough!

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662406#Comment_120662406

Despite you quoting the wrong poster, I will try again.

Illegal immigrants are defined under the section I linked, it does not apply to asylum seekers.

Seeking asylum is a legal right, as protected under legislation, such as the Geneva convention, and our own refugee act 1996. Now, I'm done trying to explain the obvious to you. If you believe asylum seekers are illegal immigrants, then please link to the piece of legislation that states so.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662433#Comment_120662433

Absolutely right, there’s no point in saying we should have been building more social housing over the years . We are where we are. It will take years to make serious inroads on current housing lists without adding unlimited numbers arrivals an the basis of guaranteed own door accommodation as promised by O Gorman.

Similarly with hospital waiting lists that has people waiting for years. We need to put a stop and exercise our opt out clause. Anyone who believes taking in unlimited numbers has no impact on housing, healthcare, GPs etc is living in a parallel universe

Gamergurll

...

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661872#Comment_120661872

You were wrong. It's legal to seek asylum. Asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants. End of story.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662961#Comment_120662961

Sorry, still not interested in childish strawman arguments.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120662712#Comment_120662712

Apols for misquote.

So, if we look at the Geneva Convention we can be guided by Article 31 that states:

The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of Article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.

https://www.unhcr.org/media/article-31-1951-convention-relating-status-refugees-non-penalization-detention-and-protection

Then, we can look at how Ireland implements this in the Immigration act of 2004 that you quoted and we see:

5.—(1) No non-national may be in the State other than in accordance with the terms of any permission given to him or her before the passing of this Act, or a permission given under this Act after such passing, by or on behalf of the Minister.

(2) A non-national who is in the State in contravention of subsection (1) is for all purposes unlawfully present in the State.

(3) This section does not apply to—

(a) a person whose application for asylum under the Act of 1996 is under consideration by the Minister,

So Ireland has deftly implemented article 31 by simply not acting on the provisions of the immigration act of 2004 for people who are claiming asylum.

The UNHCR has no issues with illegal immigrants claiming asylum and Ireland has implemented our laws so they are not processed as illegal immigrants while they have active claims.

It's for you to now return the courtesy and show where I am wrong and point to the specific text of the relevant domestic and/or international legislation that you believe goes beyond these measures by explicitly stating that asylum seekers are legal residents of this or any country, when they submit a claim for asylum.

Scipri0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661235#Comment_120661235

The second link at the end says that she prefers Ireland over the UK because of benefits. It is a long video but you can only imagine what these type of videos have on peoples influences and this video is only one of many.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663018#Comment_120663018

You claim asylum seekers are illegal immigrants. they are not. As shown by section 5.

illegal immigrants can also claim asylum, but that is not what you are saying.

People claiming asylum do so at their entry point to the state, they are then allowed into the state legally as an asylum seeker.

Seeking asylum is a legal right, therefore someone seeking asylum cannot be an illegal immigrant. Now, if you want to keep claiming that they are illegal immigrants, please identify the legislation that states asylum seekers are illegal immigrants.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663135#Comment_120663135

Section 5 does not state that asylum applicants are legal residents of Ireland.

The majority of people claiming asylum in Ireland do so at the IPO, not the airport.

Asserting a legal right to claim asylum does not transfrom you into a legal resident as explained. Don't worry, there is another unfortunate on thread just as confused as you on this.

I'll note that you offer nothing to support your case. Again.

I'll expect you to simply copy and paste your response. Again.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663181#Comment_120663181

And again, you claimed asylum seekers are illegal immigrants. I have proven they are not.

I'm not sure why you can't just admit when you are wrong!

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659431#Comment_120659431

Tourism Ireland will be happy with that publicity

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663196#Comment_120663196

As predicted.

I'm not bothered that you've convinced yourself. Ignorance as the saying goes...

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663228#Comment_120663228

😂😂 and I'm not surprised that you can't link the legislation stating asylum seekers are illegal immigrants 😂

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663166#Comment_120663166

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663166#Comment_120663166

Interesting argument, open borders or keep your mouth shut

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663250#Comment_120663250

I can only offer the relevant laws, highlight and outline the words and try tell you what they mean.

I can't understand any of it for you.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663283#Comment_120663283

Posters can read and are not stupid.

Unfortunately for you, you claim asylum seekers are illegal immigrants but cannot link to the legislation stating so. ( because it doesn't exist )

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663303#Comment_120663303

Per my previous, I can't understand the laws for you.