Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

_Puma_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664295#Comment_120664295

Back in 2010 Dermot Aherne, then minister for justice, while responding to criticisms by an NGO, said that the problem isn't direct provision itself, it's economic migrants abusing the system

"the problem is the vast majority who claim asylum are not genuine Asylum seekers".

The immigration bill was withdrawn in the Dail.

Here we are in 2023, an even bigger economic migrant crisis, and 3 ministers who have driven on a major policy change that has seen the asylum process crumble into this country and the same NGO set trying to argue the same nonsense, even though its now patently clear they are in a small minority in their opinions.

Lobbying is a hellofadrug!

Mac_Lad71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664297#Comment_120664297

Ukrainian refugees may have been here without any EU Directive but they would have been subject to DP rules and regulations and not given full welfare entitlements on arrival and not handed purpose built modular homes.

Presuming they live on welfare says what about me? Only that I'm right while you try to deflect.

How many Ukrainians are working in this country? Enlighten me please.

And then tell me how many are on benefits? I can answer that..vast majority of them (even those that work).

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664796#Comment_120664796

I see today 3 companies paid a third of all corporation tax paid last year. There is changes coming next year to corporation tax that make Ireland less attractive to MNCs n they can no longer run all profits through Ireland. Talk about having all your eggs in one basket.

When not if it goes bang all these refugees will still cost billions upon billions each year n no golden goose to pay for them.

Mac_Lad71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664905#Comment_120664905

Relax.

Our new crop of arrivals will be paying our pensions and buying their own homes through their hard work and endeavour.

Sure what could go wrong.

Ten of Swords

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664820#Comment_120664820

Fine by me, if it means we can keep this thread to its original purpose which was the pros and cons of a zero refugee policy, vs Irelands current policy, as currently it keeps going off topic leading to many reported posts.

Just to note - if it gets unmanageable and the distinction between the 2 threads (and 2 differing topics) become too blurred then one will end up being closed

/off topic

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664897#Comment_120664897

So you don't have any figures then & you just decided based on prejudices.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664862#Comment_120664862

It's not semantics. It's fact. A refugee is not an asylum seeker. Is that so difficult to understand?

The warning is in relation to asylum seekers being called illegal immigrants.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665010#Comment_120665010

That seems fair - ultimately it's a complex issue with many moving parts and overlapping elements that even the mainstream media conflate and reference depending on the article.

I'm happy to stick one up under the heading of "Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions" - what do you think?

Gen.Zhukov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665083#Comment_120665083

^not addressed to me I know - I was about to reply to your other post

Agree. We're allowed to discuss a river but not the tributaries that feed it. They're inextricably linked - By having such restricted parameters, it is open for reports ie, someone mentions a tributary - 'reported'

I note ToS's post above re a 2nd general thread. If there was one, this thread would die on it's arse because a general conversation is where it's at - the other option would be to widen the parameters of this thread

Ten of Swords

^^Take your pick, if a general purpose thread supercedes this one then so be it - that's where the discussion flows.

Now back on topic please, any more about this can be discussed by PM if you wish

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120663941#Comment_120663941

You position is completely untenable and you can't/ won't admit it. Perhaps you work in and benefit directly from the system. A system which is broke and overwhelmed.

There are people here who are totally anti immigrant under any circumstances. But there are many others, like myself, who agree with a properly managed system for asylum seekers.

But your typical gung ho attitude of effectively supporting unfettered immigration due to our broken system, simply hardens the attitudes of middle ground people like me. To the extent, that it starts to turn more against all immigrants.

Maybe that's your ploy.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665140#Comment_120665140

I definitely do not work in immigration or DP or any NGO or anything like it.

And, FYI I do not support unfettered immigration & I have already stated that.

I'm not sure why my attitude should influence your attitude? Seems strange to allow my views to influence your attitude.

Also, what exactly is wrong with the system, apart from it taking way way too long, which I presume everyone knows, how else can you possibly deal with asylum seekers?

Do you think there is something wrong with the way the system deals with refugees? How would you change it?

I just believe in the law, and the law doing its job, fair and equally for everyone.

Refugees of course are a different matter, so maybe we shouldn't be discussing AS, I'm not sure what the mods want.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664844#Comment_120664844

What’s genuine about a ‘refugee’ who offers a completely fabricated claim for asylum that is accepted at face value?

0ph0rce0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665046#Comment_120665046

The figures were about 10,000 in the first quarter of 2023 if I remember.

There's plenty still working for Ukrainian companies remotely.

You'd have to wonder how many of them are also claiming benefits while doing this and not paying a cent for shelter, for food, bills etc...

They aren't liable for tax here or usc and have been given a free pass again for the 2023 tax year as stated on revenues website and I'm sure there's no need or anyway to prove they are actually working from home.

If you can get it why not sure, Ukrainian wage and a social welfare savings account on the side, throw in a bit of child benefit. You're laughing, Happy Days.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665729#Comment_120665729

Because a refugee doesn't have to offer a claim for asylum. I'm not sure how many times this needs to be explained?

Mac_Lad71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665046#Comment_120665046

Where are your figures?

You have decided based on your prejudice against me.

See we can all play the victim card.

It's a cop out.

Anyway I'm off to play golf unless my club has been handed over to fake asylum seekers under cover of darkness.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665893#Comment_120665893

You are the one that stated they don't work and live on welfare and will continue to do so.

I merely asked you for the figures, how many are working/how many on welfare, but you couldn't back up your statement.

Of course, you can't possibly back up a statement presuming what anyone will do in the future anyway!

Mac_Lad71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665913#Comment_120665913

https://www.thejournal.ie/ukraine-supports-5909201-Nov2022/

Here you go.

That was to end of Oct. 2022.

So you can at least double that by now.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41112766.html

And there's more.

Sure we're a great country.

Tis no wonder they're travelling across Europe to get in.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/bill-housing-ukrainian-refugees-ireland-26712168

Even get the free travel.

https://www.meath.ie/council/supports-for-ukrainians-in-meath/assistance-for-ukrainians-transport

Meanwhile excise has increased on diesel and petrol last night.

Sure someone has to pay for it.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665921#Comment_120665921

None of your links provide numbers as to how many Ukrainian people are working or receiving social welfare.

The amount mentioned in your first link is all social welfare spending in the country, the majority of which goes on pensions, btw.

Yes the government are spending money housing Ukrainian refugees, they are also spending millions a years housing other people on housing lists. I assume everyone is aware of the massive housing crisis, caused by governments, not by people.

And your statement that social welfare spending will double this year? Plucked out of somewhere........and laughable.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664787#Comment_120664787

I have done and you keep repeating the same trope over and over.

Implying that refugees are ilkegal immigrants.

Its not me playing to the gallery here, I think. I don't care who agrees with my posts as evidenced by their obvious unpopularity amongst many posters on the thread.

If I were playing to the gallery I would be writing populist comments to garner thanks.

This is just more flannel to cover up the fact that you were mistaken but you won't admit that.

If you can't answer for your posts... a discussion forum is not the place to be posting.

And edit to note ToS post, as I have just seen it and I agree.

Goldengirl

@_Puma_

So your argument is.. that anybody who disagrees with yoo and others posting that they are not refugees but economic migrants, regardless of their status under international law.. are all "lobbyists" 🤣?

Another throwing his toys out of the pram!

And what happened to Dermot Ahern not too long after he made that statement?

'On 15 November 2010, he described as 'fiction' the speculation that Ireland was about to seek financial aid from the European Union. He told RTÉ's The Week in Politics that 'nothing is going on at the direction of Government in relation to this.'[21] On 21 November 2010, the Taoiseach Brian Cowen confirmed that Ireland had formally requested financial support from the European Union's European Financial Stability Facility and the International Monetary Fund.[22][23]'

He wasn't the worst but he did say some very questionable things while in government that would not be considered acceptable now.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665884#Comment_120665884

Eh, what? When did we stop accepting asylum claims?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666955#Comment_120666955

We didn't. We accept asylum claims from asylum seekers.

Refugees do not need to make claims for asylum 🙄

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666791#Comment_120666791

Sorry, not with that topic and definitely not with that abusive attitude. Not here or any other thread.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666969#Comment_120666969

Nothing abusive or offensive in my post.

You impugn my intent in posting so I have the right to reply and refute that as the utter nonsense that it is.

Also you are trying to get away with saying that the very subjects of the thread are not that but something else.

Obviously that is not acceptable.

Beasty

JohnJoFitz threadbanned

_Puma_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666882#Comment_120666882

"So you argument is..."

Ah ya the great beginnings of a words in your mouth debate. A great start.

Have a look over the previous posts about the system being abused by fraudulent claimants into this new system and the systems inability to process these people to see what the real "argument is". I can wait.

So your argument is Dermot Aherne must of been a right wing racist back in 2010 too. See I can play this game too.

If its your intention to get people on board and to see how wonderful our new asylum seeker policy is I've yet to see it. The more and more I look into it the worse it gets. That's what this thread is giving to people like me who have just started to take notice about what our government have been up to here.

I emphasise the "our government". Our government have brought in a policy that is clear is not what the majority of people want. It's a policy that has been pushed since back in 2010 by NGOs whose financial interest it is to expand this system and to claim anyone opposed must be either right wing or a racist.

All that's changed is we see a concertive effort to "control the narrative". It's the same playbook

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667011#Comment_120667011

Your judgement is noted.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666965#Comment_120666965

This is like saying that you don’t need to apply for a driver’s licence if you have one because drivers with licenses don’t need to apply for one.

72sheep

The ESRI have an article in the IT explaining to us citizens that we are all completely wrong, yet again. Good to know. These NGO's are great lads altogether!

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/05/30/fact-checking-the-claims-about-unvetted-migrants/