Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120697965#Comment_120697965

The poster you quoted said "right wing" not "far right" - there's a weird thing lately in this thread of using right wing and far right as interchangeable terms when they are not the same thing at all.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120697356#Comment_120697356

You've hit the nail on the head here with in fact the biggest fallacy of this whole "right wing"/"far right" nonsense.

Thanks to the polarising effect of social media, in turn driven by the SERIOUSLY messed up cultural divisions and problems in America, this idiotic idea of "right wing" being a somehow a negative has been spun in an attempt to silence dissent on a given topic by the supposedly liberal and tolerant types.

What's worse is we have not-very-bright trend chasers like Leo Varadkar, O'Gorman, and McEntee and others parroting it now as well - which is in fact an example of why America's issues have no place outside its borders. We live in IRELAND.. one of the most tolerant, relaxed and open countries in the world! All these problems - trans rights, BLM, and all the other identity and racial issues faced by the USA simply aren't mainstream issues here.. or weren't until those same tolerant folks were beaten over the head with it and told they MUST care, MUST support and MUST advocate for these things, or be worse than Hitler.. or something!

So too this debate over refugees. You're either on board, fully supportive and vocal about it - or you're a "far right" activist to be marginalised, dismissed and ignored on EVERY topic.

But as you say, in real life people hold different views on every issue - some of which are liberal, some more conservative, and the majority probably somewhere in the middle. But keep telling them that they're "wrong", label them with terms associated with ACTUAL extremists, and ignore them for long enough and you'll push them further and further into the camp you are supposedly railing against!

People have every right to ask questions, expect real answers, and BALANCED INFORMATION about the impact of policies and societal changes that are occurring, and how it will affect them, their families, their communities and - very importantly - the future for their children and grandchildren across areas like education, employment, access to healthcare, welfare support if they need it, social stability, and future opportunity etc.

Most people asking these questions don't have the liberty of political connections, significant wealth and the options and insulation it provides, and don't care about Twitter likes or validation. These people are living in the real world dealing with tough decisions, sacrifices and challenges every day and often powerless to influence much of what drives these things - but in a country where it takes a LOT to get people to stand up and say "hang on a minute!" (the last time being the 2014 Irish Water protests, and before that probably the anti-drug/organised crime campaigns of the mid 90s), it means something is going badly wrong (whether it be the policy/change itself, the implementation of it, or the messaging around it) and it's time to stop, take a step back and have a rethink.

Leo and co might be smitten with the idea of yet another round of "look at us, aren't we good" on the international circuit, and "attaboys" from their "friends"/masters in Europe - but they won't be the ones to live with the long term fallout of these measures, WE will - and thankfully more are starting to realise that!

But for those who will of course try to twist the above post - no-one is saying that we shouldn't try to help those GENUINE and legitimate refugees who need it.. but such help has limits and our efforts must be cognisant of that, and indeed the many other serious domestic problems and issues we DO have. We aren't responsible for the ill's of the world, and nor can we solve the problems of everyone who turns up with a sad story, and we certainly don't need to be importing more problems and issues than we have (whether that be sheer numbers of people and the needs and challenges they bring with them, or agendas and crusades from elsewhere!)

Recognising these thing and calling for a balance isn't "wrong", it's a necessity. Calling for limits isn't "far right", it's acknowledging the reality of where we are. Asking for public opinion to be included in the decision isn't "racist" or "xenophobic", it's democracy.

We, as citizens, voters, taxpayers, and residents of this country have every right to a say in things that affect us and our futures. The politicians we elect are there to serve us, not the other way around, nor are they there to serve the interests of others before our own. They would do well to remember that.

We've already seen the protests and marches (which will only grow in scale I think). When we get to local or national elections though is where the real verdict will be delivered. I said several years ago on this site that immigration would become the key issue in the future with the way things were going, and here we are.

If the Government don't wake up to this fact and make the changes being demanded in recent polls, we will see political instability not seen in decades and the rise of REAL far right (no quotations) personalities and groups in the country and appearing on ballot papers and NO ONE wants to see that.

It's time for a change - but not quite the one promised in manifestos and slogans from FF, FG and the rest and so unlike in 2011, this time it ACTUALLY needs to happen as opposed to just spin and empty promises from Enda Kenny and his FG team - including one Leo Varadkar and many others in the current Government let's not forget.

I'll keep saying it - enough is enough!

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120697450#Comment_120697450

No.

Usually granted to those who have been working or studying and contributing ie paying tax, in the country with settled children in schools.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698100#Comment_120698100

fair enough, I've edited it.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698337#Comment_120698337

The current Government - or half of it anyway - have shown that they can be turned when the people make their dissatisfaction impossible to ignore. It happened with the Irish Water debacle, it can be done again.

Politicians can be made to listen if their spot at the trough is under threat. Losing their seat is something our senior career politicians don't want to contemplate. They want to "retire" on their terms, not the electorates.

All that needs to happen is for the public to keep the pressure up. Keep expressing the concerns in polls, keep protesting what seems to increasingly be a forced resettlement plan in communities, continue to comment on threads like this and news reports, and make your views known when the door-stepping season starts.

That and the very obvious strains on essential services and the fallout of same will make the faulty logic of this approach unavoidable.

I do agree with your core point though. There is a massive opportunity for an actual centre right party with mass appeal on not just this issue, but many others in this country. It'll happen yet or the most opportunistic of the current lot will pivot to fill the gap. Our job is to become more engaged in the process - make our wishes known, engage local TDs, vote rather than ignore and so on.

We all need to grow up a bit - as a country, as an electorate, as a political system. It's the only way we'll see the changes we need and which are becoming increasingly unavoidable.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698108#Comment_120698108

I fundamentally agree with this post Kaiser.

Well said.

I have differentiated right wing and far right on this and other threads. And so have others.

There should be liimits absolutely and the whole processing and appeals backlog needs to fasttracked along with more stringent deportation rules.

This is what has been agreed to last Thursday by Ireland and other EU countries among other things.

However on the subject of protests there is no way that what we have seen to date is representative of ordinary everyday non social media driven Irish citizens.

A smattering of people drummed up by, yes, far right activists on social media and sites with links to NP and IFP, riled up with fake reports of sexual attacks and robberies, protesting outside refugee centres is not representing the majority.

When there are major marches on the Dáil or the like of the water charges protests then it is representative.

Some of the same protestors at all these disturbances have been involved in anti vaccine and antimask protests as well.

And have been involved in anti trans, anti lgbt, and outside hospitals offering abortion. Changing their names on social media.

Anti everything that our easygoing country, has voted to support. And that they seek to change. Supported by the likes of Libertas and other far right stokers.

Reregistering here to post with regularity and on other social media sites.

So if thats not far right what is it?

But the majority of people posting here are one way or the other on most issues and posting their own opinions like us, and right wing OR left wing OR centre that is all grand.

And we can argue and debate and agree or disagree but its just us and not propaganda.

Its the odd NP or IFP rereg I have problems with, and so should everyone else, IMO.

Goldengirl

@BlueSkyDreams

What is needed is a party with intelligence, fairness and listening to the people at its core.

Not there yet, I think.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698337#Comment_120698337

I don't think there will be a GE till 2025. I expect the current government to do the full course.

Strazdas

The Red C polls (with their rather leading questions on refugees) keep getting quoted by the anti-immigration people, but an 'Ireland Thinks' poll in the Sunday Independent this week showed that only 17% of people thought immigration or refugees were a priority issue for the country - compared to 59% citing Housing and 40% saying the Cost of Living crisis for example.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698441#Comment_120698441

Protesting at asylum centres against the people moving in, is causing massive issues. Whether you know it/want to acknowledge it, there is a far right movement in Ireland and it's them that are at all these protests. It's them that are rising the locals.

There is nothing wrong with anyone asking questions of government, nothing wrong with people protesting government policies, but hanging around these accommodations, intimidating others ( including other locals) is not the way to do it.

if people feel that strongly then they should get out on the streets, March on the Dail. That's how reasonable people and protestors behave.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698754#Comment_120698754

There are lots of things coming down the line. Probably 12 or 15 new TDs in the next Dail. Maybe some huge constituency changes. Locals and European elections may usher in a lot of change. The electorate is suggesting in some ways in wants tougher law on asylum/immigration but there is nothing significant on that coming from any of the large parties or even smaller parties apart from the far right extremist parties.

dabbler2004

@suvigirl

"That's how reasonable people and protestors behave."

And a reasonable government would ensure they have the correct infrastructure in place to be able to accommodate genuine refugees which would mean limited numbers and not have people stuffed into every nook and cranny it can find without any forward planning. While at the same time not neglecting its obligations to Irish citizens.

And the term "genuine refugee" has been addressed to you earlier in this thread or the other related thread that you post in.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698796#Comment_120698796

Yes, a reasonable government would. Totally agree.

not sure what your comment about genuine refugees is about...

.Donegal.

Jesus Christ the victimhood in this thread. You’d swear the right wingers on here were Jews in 1940s Germany the way most of you are carrying on about being persecuted. Hysterical fking shite. Get a grip. And this is from someone who wants stricter controls fyi before youse go off on another hysterical victimhood rant.

dabbler2004

@suvigirl

Haven't you asked before what a genuine refugee was. Or have you forgotten?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698837#Comment_120698837

FGS.

every refugee is a genuine refugee. It is literally impossible to have a non genuine refugee. I don't know how many times this has been said.

And I have no idea why you are bringing it up?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698826#Comment_120698826

But haven't you heard?

The rest of us are either "...... or " gormless ......" so we must be wrong to question them..

So much for civil debate!

Edited as those posts have been removed now.

dabbler2004

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698899#Comment_120698899

Economic migrants who claim they are refugees are not genuine refugees.

This has been covered a few times in this thread.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698986#Comment_120698986

Nobody claims they are a refugee.

Refugee status is given to someone.

And yes it has been covered many times, clearly you missed some essential stuff.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698474#Comment_120698474

Actually Sinn Féin are very quiet on most of the issues raised here. Yes if a spokesperson is put on the spot, then tend to defend immigration etc and rabbit on about Irish people on famine boats etc. But they're not making any sort of proactive stance.

SF are no fools, they know the topic is toxic and their potential electorate is not enthusiastic. So it's a case of whatever you say, say nothing with SF.

But make no mistake the Shinners will always ultimately say and do anything to appeal to their base, so expect a volte face there. They were like this on water charges too, lukewarm in favour at first and then as soon as they smelt a few votes, turned vehemently against.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698733#Comment_120698733

This is a red herring though. You are entitled to be concerned about housing and quite happy to see demand reduced via enhanced immigration control amongst other measures. If you are concerned about housing supply but also want open borders, you are not capable of joined up thinking.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698994#Comment_120698994

This is really weird.

People running way from an advancing army or their bombed out homes over a border are not waiting for someone to 'give' them refugee status, they are refugees and I imagine they would be stunned if someone told them they were not.

enricoh

A letter from a fella in tullamore at the coalface of the housing crisis. Our politicians and media dread this sort of fella speaking up- they may get used to it though.

https://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/tullamore-tribune/1191366/offaly-man-calls-for-reassessment-of-ireland-s-capacity-to-absorb-unlimited-numbers-of-refugees.html

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120699136#Comment_120699136

Mmmmm, there was a poster or two earlier in the thread that didn't seem to think Ukrainians were refugees.

They are of course, because they were given temporary international protection. Given.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698899#Comment_120698899

Only when they have been given refugee status and been recognised . Leave to Remain is not given to refugees and which whom you incorrectly called refugees .

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120699351#Comment_120699351

I have never said, ever, that leave to remain makes someone a refugee.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120699303#Comment_120699303

Can you post to legislation that says that anyone offered temporary international protection is a refugee?

The last attempt didn't go well.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120699157#Comment_120699157

He makes some interesting points / claims but does he have any evidence that emergency accommodation places reserved for homeless people in Ireland are being given to refugees? To the best of my knowledge, the likes of Focus Ireland, the Father Peter McVerry Trust, Housing First or Homeless Dublin don't have any interaction with asylum seekers.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120699652#Comment_120699652

What's the matter?

Is your internet gone ?

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120699709#Comment_120699709

No thanks.