Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738858#Comment_120738858

We owe it to the world to take everybody in because it's directly our fault their countries are crap and we are such a hugely important powerhouse of a state with our American MNC profit GDP that we basically have unlimited resources to waste

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738858#Comment_120738858

Of course there are fake asylum seekers, but it is the job of the investigation to find them and refuse them leave to stay in the state.

Those doctors that cheated on their exams are as qualified as other doctors who didn't cheat and as anyone else that cheated their way through an exam or qualification. It happens all the time, in all walks of life. Some people get caught, some never do.

Fake asylum seekers gaining refugee status are refugees. If they got through and the investigation was flawed, they got through.

If you get arrested for drunk driving, and came back over the limit, but the case was thrown out because of some legal technicality, then you are not guilty of drunk driving. Even though you were drunk driving a car.

I believe there should be a lot more People involved in the investigation and decisions on claims for asylum. And we all know that the time frames need to be sped up.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738819#Comment_120738819

You seem not to as you've already conflated nationality with race.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738827#Comment_120738827

No, they'd be a fake doctor who was somehow "qualified". Still not a doctor, still fake.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738995#Comment_120738995

https://www.ihrec.ie/your-rights/services/race/

https://www.ihrec.ie/your-rights/services/race/

Race discrimination happens when you are treated less favourably than someone else because of your race, colour, nationality or, ethnic or national origins..

No, they wouldn't be a 'fake doctor ' 🤣 they would still be a real doctor, just one who may have cheated a little.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120737924#Comment_120737924

The issue that prompted the referendum was the abuse by people with no connection with Ireland, who were arranging to have children born in Ireland in order to acquire Irish and EU citizenship for the children at birth.

This wasn't a triviality, it was an issue fundamental to managing immigration at that time and stopping growing abuse of the asylum system, and the result was an absolute landslide in favour of ending it.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739155#Comment_120739155

The issue that prompted the referendum was the previously held referendum which amended article 2 &3 of the Constitution to state that everyone born on the island of Ireland was entitled to be a citizen of the Irish nation.

No referendum in 1999? No referendum in 2004.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739190#Comment_120739190

Incorrect, A constitutional right to citizenship at birth was included in the revised Article 2 in 1998 following the Good Friday Agreement. This was intended to ensure Irish citizenship for people born in Northern Ireland to Irish or British parents. When it became apparent that this provision was fuelling an increase in citizenship claims by people with no connection with Ireland, especially through the asylum system, it was duly put to the people to amend.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738282#Comment_120738282

I'm not sure that I agree with the conflation of refugee / asylum policies with the "politic of multiculturalism" here but I guess this is not the material point.

I'm not really quite sure who is saying that Ireland isn't going to face the same problems as other European countries when it comes to refugees — personally I think it's idealistic to believe we won't face them at different periods in the future. I mean, we are facing some of those problems right now. Handling refugees and asylum seekers is almost invariably problematic but obviously there is what I believe to be a close to universally accepted view that simply refusing to handle it outright is not the way forward either.

Finding that space somewhere in between is unavoidably difficult. Maybe we should do what Denmark is doing, and indeed our efforts in the current crisis give us better justification to do so, but then in the fullness of time we may find ourselves under pressure from our European allies who might not be amused at Ireland continuing to reap the benefits of being a fully plugged in participant and beneficiary of the Western capitalist order, but allowing others to handle the burdens that wealthy free societies endure as attractive and safe places for the world beyond.

Ultimately, if we think that "choice" here means a realistic simple choice between what we are doing now and a simple outcome that we can sit pretty forever on the Western fringes of Europe reaping the benefits of participation in the international community and believing we can only ever accept the burdens which are perpetually easily manageable — well — I think they will be disappointed.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739211#Comment_120739211

🤣🙄

That's exactly what I said. The GFA caused a referendum to be held in Ireland which resulted in the 19th amendment to the constitution.

No referendum in 1999? No need for a referendum in 2004.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739231#Comment_120739231

Nope, you didn't mention the abuse of immigration laws that prompted the referendum, as patiently pointed out by myself and wibbs and ignored.

Feel free to go around in a circle on your own.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739231#Comment_120739231

The referendum was required as it would have been easier to overturn the birth right restriction . This was attempted a few years ago even with the 79% against automatic birth right . This did reduce the numbers coming .

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739272#Comment_120739272

There was no abuse of immigration law!

People born here were legally entitled to be Irish citizens. How can there possibly be abuse of any immigration laws, if they didn't exist. You're being ridiculous.

This was inserted by the 19th amendment to the constitution, and changed by the 27th amendment.

I shall not be engaging with any more tit for tat with you.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739308#Comment_120739308

Post #8027 and several others by myself and others have explicitly dealt with this point. You know what you are doing.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739308#Comment_120739308

Between this and your insistence on defining fake you're being extremely pedantic. When you had women arriving late in labour to have their babies so they could get citizenship it was clearly an abuse of the system.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120737760#Comment_120737760

If you are referring to me with that name calling, I can tell you I am more in The Real World than many here posting all day every day.

There are no "lads just rocking up from Africa " taking these childrens hospital beds.

Unfortunately, you and others it seems, are taken in by this strawman nonsense.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739445#Comment_120739445

It was not an abusive of immigration laws

It was definitely taking advantage of the law as it was at that time. But there's nothing illegal about that.

If we hadn't amended the constitution in 1999 it would not have happened. And we would not have had to amend it again in 2004.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120737787#Comment_120737787

That is not the point.

They are given funds made available for them.

It is not taken from funds for disability or health services. Except in all of your imagination which is verging on paranoia at this stage.

Another whataboutery and strawman

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120737824#Comment_120737824

Seriously I hope you made your bosses aware of your feelings as strongly as you have done here.

But if course you will say you did..

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739308#Comment_120739308

Those coming with late pregnancy to have children and avail of citizenship for the child and parents was abuse .

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739498#Comment_120739498

You have proof ? The funds are given by government they make the decision on where where it goes . The priority at present is Ukrainian refugees .

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739608#Comment_120739608

Abuse of What?

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739230#Comment_120739230

"but allowing others to handle the burdens that wealthy free societies endure as attractive and safe places for the world beyond."

Why should wealthy free societies be burdened by illegal economic migrants? Is this some variant on "White Man's Burden"? If it is, it's getting really old at this stage. There are plenty of avenues for required and qualified extra EU people to apply and come here. Many thousands do and have and fair play to them, never mind the tens of thousands of EU folks here because of free movement that we voted for many times. We did not get a choice to vote for this "world beyond" save for in 04 when the result was very clear.

There are plenty of avenues for genuine refugees and asylum seekers too. Not the 50% of chancers "losing" their documents on the way here, coming from and through safe countries to do it(even Varadkar noted this, though kept his comments to the White nations doing it). We're an incredibly soft touch within the EU and gobshítes like O'Gorman et al are making it softer.

As for other EU nations; quite the number of them have come to the conclusion that there are too many chancers coming in. The stance across the EU is hardening, not softening by the year. If anything many won't be happy with soft touch Ireland making it easier to become a EU free travel citizen bypassing their checks. They weren't too happy when we had our Jus Soli loophole in play for just that reason.

Oh and in before the usual and particularly local response of "The Irish were migrants once, how dare we suggest putting the brakes on". Yep we were. The vast bulk of whom went to ex European colonies founded upon and reliant on immigration, or to the UK which for most of the period meant internal migration as it was the same country. Those same ex European colonies are much harder to get into today. And yes I would deport any Irish illegals from those countries.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739498#Comment_120739498

Oh dear- it's back to the insults again.

Unfortunately for the lady in the article who had her leg amputated recently n was told to come back in 2024, not enough funds were made available. No end to the funding for our new neighbours.

They are given funds made available to them- what does that even mean? Pure waffle.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739445#Comment_120739445

Yet again let's clog the thread with 30 posts about the difference between refugees, asylum seekers etc!

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739626#Comment_120739626

I posted a link yesterday on the funding allocation for those particular health services.. Unless SD is lying to the Dail 🤔

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739735#Comment_120739735

If only posters actually knew the difference then they wouldn't need to be told over and over.

Is it stupidity or ignorance......

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739719#Comment_120739719

No, not from me anyway.

It just means you don't understand the meaning of allocated funding.

And no insult in that post, at all or intended.

It is a strawman and nonsense to say that funds allocated for children's health or disability services are being used for funding refugees, plain and simple.

Thats not insulting, thats just a fact.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739803#Comment_120739803

No one has said that funds allocated elsewhere are instead now spent on refugees- except you.

There clearly isn't enough funds allocated to disability grants when a 50 year old local with a leg amputated is told to come back next year. There is no hint of an end to the funding for refugees.

batman_oh

It would be interesting to see the state we would be left in if our MNC pot dried up (as we have almost nothing else to support all this spending outside of farming which we have to restrict apparently) and we went into a recession like we did not so long ago. We have literally had a few years where the country is well off in it's entire history and apparently we must be world leaders in saving everybody and throwing money at everything other than improving the functioning of the place for people that live here already. A couple of million refugees and a recession, sure what could go wrong.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739832#Comment_120739832

Well I can't answer that particular difficult case. I suggest you contact your local td.

I would say as I have said THREE TIMES NOW, that funding for disability is in no way related to funding for refugees.

Your perception that it is in someway affected or unfair, is just that, your perception.

Good luck, now signing off this conversation... No offence, hope you see, just a bit circular!