Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771738#Comment_120771738

I agree, but how do you go about solving the housing crisis? And why are the government not taking action on it?

We have known for years that there is a housing crisis, even before the war in Ukraine put massive pressure on Europe. What is the reasoning behind the governments lack of action.

I do believe that the government are causing problems for immigrants due to their complete failure to do anything substantial. And I do believe that if housing was not an issue we would see far far less criticism of refugees.

I also believe that the way to deal with these issues are not protesting at DP centres or against the people moving into them. The country needs to protest to government, make them do something.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771735#Comment_120771735

And that is the entire point of the commitments which Ireland has made in terms of refugees — an understanding that a large number of countries cooperating and doing their bit helps to widen the impact radius and soften the blow. So that's something to be kept in mind when we see the rapturous praise on here for countries that lean towards pulling up their drawbridge, contenting themselves that others will pick up the pieces to avoid a humanitarian disaster zone in Ukraine for an administration already focused on defending the borders of Europe against Russian aggression.

Now I would point out that the figures you have given there are for Ukrainian refugees only. Taking into account all refugees from any country as a percentage of population, the EU average is roughly 1.5% with Germany and Poland sitting at 2.7% and 3.5% respectively. A lot of our European allies also have higher levels of immigration generally and deal with some of the challenges presented by the Schengen border arrangement for controlling population movement.

So it's not like we are the only country making an effort or facing difficulties. But if people could turn their heads away from those who want to tell us that refugees are little more than unwashed hordes of ill-natured, ill-intentioned fakers then that would be a big step towards creating a situation where international cooperation eases the bottlenecks created by wars and other crises and give all countries' systems more breathing space to develop more robust processes.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771776#Comment_120771776

I agree and have posted on this thread before about the homogeneity of Irish parties when it comes to this issue. What I can see is a number of independents and minor parties (Aontu perhaps) doing better than expected in the election on the back of it and it potentially being weaponised after that. Ala Peter Casey in 2018. But the issue of immigration will be clear on the doorsteps, and in the debate around the election.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771853#Comment_120771853

If housing wasn't an issue, we wouldn't see student accomodation being repurposed as DP centres. We'd be able to build purpose built accomodation for asylum seekers if we had the capability for doing so (perhaps not for the current volume but something like what Roderic wanted to aspire to). But the repurposing of old buildings for this purpose is also taking labour away from housing construction, which is (minorly) making the housing crisis worse.

There are no simple solutions to the housing crisis, and there's no way of solving it. It's a multi faceted mire of issues with complex and targeted solutions. You can just mitigate problems like this, stabilise them over the long term and improve the situation to the point it becomes a more minor issue for people. There are no simple solutions like the pinkos would have you believe.

But mitigating the housing issue is one thing, not aggravating it is another. There's no point in rolling out mitigation measures when at the same time you are de facto implementing "policies" (I use this word loosely in the context of immigration as much of the decision making seems to revolve around emotion rather than logic) that aggravate the issue.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768437#Comment_120768437

Where have I claimed that all refugees are on social welfare !!

I never said I worked for a government department !! You are fabricating .

''educated opinion based on previous refugees '' More like you need to educate your opinion . The conditions for refugees in the Balkans was a lot worse no welfare or proper accommodation . They could return to homes that were not destroyed.

The allocation of funds to various departments is decided by government does not matter if they are separate .

Maybe if you say it often enough its true .

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771960#Comment_120771960

But surely the housing crisis is the biggest issue facing Ireland and the government today.

So why isn't there some urgency in fixing the problem?

It just seems like government is content to sit back and do nothing.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771985#Comment_120771985

As I said, you can’t cultivate labour. But output has quadrupled in the 6 years between 2014 and 2020. Covid, changes in financial conditions and commodity price increases have complicated things since 2020 but delivery is still rather robust from what have seen, when you take all that into consideration.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769452#Comment_120769452

Because once in the country its an option to get employment. All those who come from deemed safe countries do it and they don't need a passport .

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771972#Comment_120771972

Perhaps I got you mixed up with another poster, if I did, I apologize. I'm sorry for suggesting you work for a government department if you do not. I did not mean any offence.

Kosovo refugees were brought into Ireland with the exact same rights and entitlements that Ukrainian refugees have now. They were housed in centres or private homes, they were entitled to work or claim full social welfare, the were entitled to health and education same as everyone else. Now, there were a lot less if them, but it's a much smaller country.

And I don't know where you got the idea that they had homes to go back to? The majority of refugees from small towns and villages, had their homes destroyed by Serbian forces.

And yes government does decide where to put the money, and just because they take it away from immigration does not mean any extra for the health department, or whoever is in charge of building social housing etc.

JP Liz V1

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41170945.html

Students will be living in cars and tents soon enough

If parts of Ukraine is still open for holidaying as in the west, would those fleeing from the east want to stay in their country but go west, I think Ireland has reached the point of too many from everywhere with services unable to cope

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772029#Comment_120772029

Indeed looks like are mixed up .

'' Only those in exceptional circumstances were allowed to remain in Ireland. Financial hardship and lack of employment opportunities in Kosovo were not considered grounds for remaining in Ireland, in line with United Nations refugee policy.However, Bosnia/Kosova Ireland Solidarity says almost all the returnees are clamouring to come back. ''

The war in Ukraine will not end soon those Ukrainians here will have rights to stay given the time spent here . Ukrainians can easily move to western Ukraine which is largely unaffected .The NGO's have more power and are more organised than in 1999 to support them .

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/kosovan-bosnian-refugees-want-to-return-to-ireland-1.1047607

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772106#Comment_120772106

Not sure what this is proving? I said the majority of Balkan refugees returned home after the war.

I also said they had the same benefits as Ukrainian refugees now.

You, a few posts back, claimed that they wouldn't be going home because the welfare payments are so good here.....

creeper1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769690#Comment_120769690

Well if the Irish national party is too right wing for you then how about voting the more moderate Irish freedom party? That is only way forward when all the major parties have turned their backs on the general public on this issue.

superbatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771249#Comment_120771249

You are like a broken record at this stage. Don't engage just repeat the same lame 'What's your issue with men'' stuff you have been banging on or insinuating someone is something based on the fact you seem to not comprehend that we can't house the world. Just because you are fine with it doesn't mean all of Ireland are and we live in a democracy and the reality is most people are not fine with it anyone.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772195#Comment_120772195

If you're going to insist on posting like a broken record then expect posters answering you the same way.

superbatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772210#Comment_120772210

Wow, you took my words and then turned it around. That's how you debate, amazing. My mind is blown.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771933#Comment_120771933

What I can see is a number of independents and minor parties (Aontu perhaps) doing better than expected in the election on the back of it and it potentially being weaponised after that. 

Sounds like wishful thinking to me. Aontu are hitting a consistent 2% in the opinion polls; I see no prospect of them winning any seat other than Toibin's.

https://redcresearch.ie/latest-polls/live-polling-tracker/

According to RedC Independents are pretty much where they were at the last GE. This guy is predicting several of them will lose their seats, mostly to SF

https://irishelectionprojections.com/2023/06/02/may-2023-projections-update/

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772127#Comment_120772127

The link which you ignore the Balkan refugees Only those in exceptional circumstances were allowed to remain . You got a link Kosovans had the same benefits as Ukrainians . The welfare rates at present are the best in the EU as eg Poland and others get tough likely they will come here .

marno21

Sounds like wishful thinking to me. Aontu are hitting a consistent 2% in the opinion polls; I see no prospect of them winning any seat other than Toibin's.

This isn't wishful thinking. I don't want any of this to happen. I'd much rather the politics of immigration played zero role in the next election but here we are.

What I'm saying is that when the election comes, the issue of immigration will be a large talking point and if all 3 major parties are spouting the same stuff as they are now, it'll drive voters elsewhere. It won't be an earthquake but it'll be a trend talked about after the election.

Until the short few months before the last election it was assumed SF would do poorly in GE 2020 due to their LE 2019 performance and that it was Micheal Martin deciding which smaller party he'd be taking into coalition with his 60+ seats.

A week is a long time in politics and all politics is local. There is a lot of this to run between now and then.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772763#Comment_120772763

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2000-06-15/28/?highlight%5B0%5D=kosovo

https://www.newstalk.com/news/i-feel-really-sorry-for-them-but-it-used-to-be-me-kosovar-refugee-speaks-out-about-refugee-crisis-639435#:~:text=In%202000%2C%20just%20one%20year,returned%20home%2C%20including%20her%20family.

It was a voluntary return. Most wanted to go home. The Irish government gave them the option of taking money to go home or to stay.

Now, why do you think Ukrainian refugees will stay? You said it was because of the handsome welfare payments

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772772#Comment_120772772

But the Ukraine crisis has been going on for a year and a half now. If it was going to feed through into people's voting intentions in any serious way I find it hard to believe that would not be already evident in the opinion polls.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771249#Comment_120771249

Literally yesterday in the news, all in a row - you’ve a baby serial killer, a child killer and a child rapist. All female.

Goway with your gender baiting nonsense, for another thread.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772951#Comment_120772951

I never suggested there were no female offenders of crimes.

I stated that women who are raped and murdered, are usually the victim of men that they know, partners, husbands, family members.

I'm not the gender baiting one, you are the one with issues about 100s of men.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772998#Comment_120772998

I’m gender baiting with my issues with males?

What are you on about, I haven’t said anything about males?

I don’t care at all about what gender these people are. It’s about our lack of capacity and the added strain on our already strained services. As I’ve said numerous times.

Nice try, pretty dishonest from you

paxreseuropa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120769913#Comment_120769913

Did you read a single sentence in my post? Because if you did you'd understand my concerns. All you've done is misquote me and misconstrue the facts and my post.

1. I never said there were hundreds and thousands of them on the streets; I said there has been hundreds and thousands of "refugees" permitted to the country without relevant background checks, and that some of them (not all, some!!) are sleeping on the streets as there is nowhere to house the people already here, never mind economic migrants.
2. Yes, there are bus loads of adult men being brought into the country, this cannot be denied, surprisingly they even featured on RTE News. We never see images of women and children from these countries; only men!
3. I am concerned for all people currently residing in Ireland; that includes men, women, and children of all nationalities.
4. Yes, I am also concerned in the potential rise in nationalism; it is not a good thing. A rise in nationalism is a huge step backwards and will only serve to further create a wedge between 'native' Irish and 'new' Irish. As previously mentioned in my post I am pro-immigration and a great believer in that immigrants enhance and add to the culture and society o countries and their presence here is to be celebrated.

I hope this wraps up any confusion you might've had about my post.

paxreseuropa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772153#Comment_120772153

You know I'm not arguing with that point; it is beyond regrettable that not a single major party (inc. Sinn Fein) refuse to stand up for the people of this country (Irish or otherwise, as other immigrants are also against the influx in "refugees" to our island). I don't want to see a rise a in nationalism and such parties gaining power but it does seem inevitable now with how the current and predicted government are and will handle this situation.

It would be wonderful to see a moderate party with common sense and the best interests of the people of Ireland at the forefront of every decision they make; and it's not impossible for such a party to exist. Maybe likeminded people (like myself) who are quite moderate and left-leaning on social issues but have honest and genuine concerns about the current number and profile of "refugees" entering the country should band together and form such a movement. It would if successful sort the refugee crisis in a diplomatic and compassionate manner, and abate the rise in nationalism.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120773066#Comment_120773066

Ah apologies, I got you mixed up with another poster, batman or whatever his name is. Honest mistake seeing as how you replied to the post I posted in answer to his one.

It is that poster who is the gender baiter. Apologies

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120773154#Comment_120773154

There are no refugees permitted into this country without checks, interviews, fingerprints and photographs being taken of them.

minimary

Now Harris is claiming that they're making progress on the student accommodation in Sligo, if they do actually turn around and cancel the contract, they've put students and parents through weeks of hell looking for alternatives.

https://www.oceanfm.ie/2023/06/27/harris-says-progress-is-being-made-on-sorting-student-accommodation-in-sligo/

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120773315#Comment_120773315

If that is true, and it remains for student accommodation only, then they're obviously getting some backlash, and have realised that this could be the straw that broke the camel's back.