Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018629#Comment_121018629

"And besides , this is not a choice that Ireland can make to look after Ukrainian Refugees or not .

As part of the EU we are obliged under the EU Temporary Protection Directive to provide these people with everything they need from secure accomodation to health provision , education and employment , and funding is made available to each member country to pay for these provisions"

We've discussed this at length, we take in per head of population far more than the likes of France who don't seem to face any sanctions. We should grow a pair and tell the EU ,sorry we've done our best but we just don't have the physical accommodation to house any more Ukranians. Also even the ones being housed are complaining.

And that 56 million from the EU is a fraction of what its costing us considering we've allocated 3 billion for Ukranians this year.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019261#Comment_121019261

You can't just show up in Ireland, claim to be from a certain country you have never set foot in and then be granted asylum. You have to go through a rigorous investigation and there will be a considerable data trail of where you were before you set in Ireland.

Also, there will be many other clues. For example, a person from Syria will be speaking fluent Arabic. A person from Afghanistan will be speaking fluent Dari or Pashto etc (and if they can't speak it to the translators, immigration will immediately be extremely suspicious about their identity).

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121015762#Comment_121015762

Correct.

and their departure from student accommodation will be phased, not efficient… according to Simon Harris some refugees will be remaining in student accommodation up to December…. Just over a third ways into the academic year. So as I predicted quite easily… students and their families ( taxpayers ) are being thrown under the bus head first, deprioritised in the own country and in fact their wellbeing and quality of their education threatened…

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019261#Comment_121019261

Photographs and fingerprints are taken from asylum seekers and checked against a European database. They can be sent back to the country they originally applied for asylum in.

grumpyperson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121020857#Comment_121020857

Have to agree to a degree. We're at a point where another year of students sleeping in cars seems unfair especially given the covid19 years too. To my knowledge the students are not offered tents so maybe that's something that should be looked at. I don't know where this is going but sincerely doubt the children of government ministers are sleeping rough.

Transparency seems poor and this doesn't seem to be managed well. We should be requesting at an EU level that other countries, especially those that don't have a housing crisis do more to house refugees and asylum seekers.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121021922#Comment_121021922

Also, there are flight records for every single flight taken in Europe and these are kept on databases for years. Any person who arrives in Ireland will have to explain how they got on a plane to Ireland (and across Europe before this).....what flights they took and on which dates, which airports they went through etc. If there is no sign of them on the system, then they are clearly lying.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019779#Comment_121019779

I did not write the document but I still don't agree with your reading of it .

Nor do I agree with 'reducing benefits ' to reduce the already as I have shown reducing number of Ukrainians arriving here.... as I have said and shown very clearly in my first post in reply to you .

Instead of responding to that you decided to take exception to the language in an EU document about funding .

So think its bit disingenuous to now say " let's help them as much as we can " .

This sort of posting.. not replying to the issue that you in fact raised , or replying with a load of rhetoric that is marginal ...is just verbally bludgeoning a poster replying in good faith , and is not on.

Never mind the fact that this thread is not about Ukrainians , because they are a different entity completely to the subject of the thread and for good reason , off limits from verbiage .

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019867#Comment_121019867

What I was referring to was EU funding from the Cohesion fund and REACT and others . That is actually 3.5 billion and only one part of the funding . More on the way from the EU and help with money for housing , building etc .

But and it has been said before the numbers are a third of the original amount, and declining , and even if they aren't we will take them , because they are fighting our frontier against a brutal dictator .

Also these people do not come under discussion here as per the thread title and warnings in the OP .

Goldengirl

Del

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121021922#Comment_121021922

Can is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. They can, but do we? We know Ellie Kisyombe had applied for asylum in U.K. yet got to stay here. How many haven’t put their heads above the parapet??

grumpyperson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121022150#Comment_121022150

I did not write the document but I still don't agree with your reading of it

Okay

Nor do I agree with 'reducing benefits ' to reduce the already as I have shown reducing number of Ukrainians arriving here.... as I have said and shown very clearly in my first post in reply to you

Okay. Other routes are at a European level, i.e. push for France to take more etc.

If I was Ukrainian, I'd probably prefer to come to Ireland over Poland as Poland gives €160 a month.

https://visitukraine.today/blog/2137/financial-aid-for-ukrainians-in-poland-new-programmes-2023#:~:text=This%20programme%20provides%20payments%20for,members%20will%20receive%20PLN%20610.

im not sure how you cannot understand that. On a purely financial level we are a lot more attractive but unfortunately we have a housing crisis at the moment so maybe it's not the time to stand out as the most generous in Europe.

I feel like I am not communicating effectively so I'd appreciate it if you could please point out where I've gone wrong.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121022302#Comment_121022302

So what do you know about the cost of living in Poland and how far that €160 goes there as opposed to here ?

You know what you were talking about instead of replying to my post

And..

Still talking off topic grumpyperson ..!

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121022360#Comment_121022360

“A single person estimated monthly costs in Poland are 696.1$ (2,860.3zł) without rent.”

If you can find an exchange that’ll give you $696 for €160, you’ll be fairly well off in no time.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121022529#Comment_121022529

Translate please.. ;)

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121022302#Comment_121022302

Yet over 1.5 million Ukraines have moved to Poland.

Goldengirl

Ireland is 2.2 times more expensive than Poland .

"Ireland is officially the most expensive country in the European Union for goods and services, figures show. The data compiled by Eurostat shows that prices here were 46 per cent higher than the average across the bloc in 2022.22 Jun 2023"

data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABAAAAAQCAMAAAAoLQ9TAAAAP1BMVEXoDwb////1l5f1nZ372Nj83t7qKCXrKyjwamn3q6v+8fH95eX97Oz3qan1oaHxcG/rNDLpHhn4sbHyd3byfn1pHhMiAAAASUlEQVR4AY3IMRZEUBAAsMkuAID7n1Xnza9ImfgCfhF/eKKKqIvQtMroOmX0fY5hNE2qFDMsKVZYU2ywpYiJcc9xcBRxcj3x4gbcUAH+CBl7oAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==

https://www.irishmirror.ie › news

Ireland is the most expensive country in EU - prices in one ... - Irish Mirror

Who doesn't know this really never mind the exact figures !

" You would need around 2,799.3€ (12,502.5zł) in Gdansk to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 6,000.0€ in Dublin (assuming you rent in both cities). This calculation uses our Cost of Living Plus Rent Index to compare the cost of living and assume net earnings (after income tax)" . Numbeo .

This would be living well . Eating out , going out, transport and all bills , but not rent .

So the point about people coming here from Poland because it somehow ' benefits ' them is not true

mistersifter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121021922#Comment_121021922

They can be , but they are not. Why aren't they sent back?

mistersifter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121020448#Comment_121020448

Many asylum seekers have successfully set up here under fake identities. Operation Mombasa ring a bell?

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121022031#Comment_121022031

We could start by removing ourselves from the EU relocation programme where migrants are moved from other EU countries to Ireland. We signed up to this under pressure from Germany and some other countries but we actually have no obligation to be in it.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121023158#Comment_121023158

I think there's probably behind the scenes arm-twisting at the EU level.

mistersifter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121022121#Comment_121022121

They might be asked how they got to Ireland, but this means nothing really as they will simply state that they do not know where they came from, that they were being intimidated or led onto certain flights and they don't know what countries they passed through. As utterly ridiculous as this is, that is what they say.

There are so many flights in to Ireland daily that authorities cannot know which passenger manifest to check. It's too big a task. And a passenger manifest won't confirm anything if they have travelled on fake documents.

At the end of the day, very few are being sent back to original countries that granted asylum. Even if it is known that they have been granted asylum in other countries, they are being allowed into the country rather than being deported at the border.

grumpyperson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121022360#Comment_121022360

So what do you know about the cost of living in Poland and how far that €160 goes there as opposed to here ?

Not a lot, haven't been to Poland in about 4 years. I do know that if I was getting full dole here and paying €75 a week for meals I could send €100 a week back to my family. I think I would do it if I couldn't find work especially given the desperate situation the Ukrainian people are in.

Looking at France:

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/03/01/france-spent-634-mn-on-hosting-ukrainians-in-2022_6017765_7.html

The allowance, which amounts to €6.80 per person per day, has been automatically increased to €14.20 for Ukrainians (until October 2022), although this is theoretically only disbursed to asylum seekers who have not been provided with free accommodation by the government.

There are very few Ukrainian refugees in France. Those without accommodation get €99.40 per week according to le monde.

We are clearly head and shoulders above France in our generosity. We're paying €135 a night in a hotel plus dole.

You know what you were talking about instead of replying to my post

I spoke about my disgust at propaganda in EU documents. Are you referring to that?

And..

Still talking off topic grumpyperson ..!

I don't know what you're referring to here.

I've nothing against Ukrainian's and think we should do as much as we can to help them but it seems we're making ourselves overly attractive financially. I don't think it is radical to state the obvious. All you have to do is look at the country per capita stats.

Obviously, I would prefer if other countries like France did more because we have a housing crisis here.

To be honest, I don't care as much anymore. Our housing situation is now more stable and our friend has been evicted and restarted and those concerns that were making me pay attention to housing have dissipated and I don't care so much anymore. Maybe in a while I'll be telling those less well off than me that they should welcome the Ukrainian's from their emergency accommodation or parents house because they can't get on the property ladder etc.

I think honest debate is needed fast because so many people in Ireland are fucked for accommodation. Sin ea

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121022242#Comment_121022242

yes we do. That is what the Dublin regulations are all about

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121023158#Comment_121023158

They are

grumpyperson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121023183#Comment_121023183

I think that'd be unwise and a bit miserable.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121022302#Comment_121022302

Why would you come to ireland with a ridiculous cost of living,when you could stay closer to home and live easily in a much lower cost country?

This story that Ukrainian refugees are choosing to come here for our welfare payments is just ridiculous! Most people want to go home when it is safe, they will stay as close as they can. People coming to Ireland, are for the most part, people who have links here, they have family or friends here, or they know Irish people here that help them.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121023365#Comment_121023365

for the ‘most part’ have links here ? That is an untruth and you know it. :)

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121023311#Comment_121023311

Ah , so you are saying you are the only one engaging in honest debate ,

while you say Ukrainians are better off in Ireland than Poland ...shown to be untrue ,

that we need to reduce benefits to Ukrainians to reduce the numbers arriving ....despite the fact that they have dropped to a third of the numbers last year and still dropping,

and finally that you don't know what I am talking about when I say that this conversation is deemed off topic for this thread ?! ...

Oh and lets not forget the snidey jibe about housing , inferring others are so well off they can afford to ignore our dearth of housing ?

This is beneath you really as it is how those who cannot debate behave by trying to denigrate their opponent personally.

Yeah, right ...think I'll be parking that post in the deflection/ disingenuous/ time wasting pile along with your others .

(However to add, I do agree with your comment about France. They are mean.

But the post I was replying to spoke about Poland so hence my reply)

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121023394#Comment_121023394

Oh really? And why do you think Ukrainian refugees come to Ireland??

Mostly because they know people here....You think differently?

grumpyperson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121023365#Comment_121023365

Why would you come to ireland with a ridiculous cost of living,when you could stay closer to home and live easily in a much lower cost country?

Because I would get free accommodation and the dole. Meaning I could get way more than in Poland or France and even send money back to my relatives.

This story that Ukrainian refugees are choosing to come here for our welfare payments is just ridiculous! Most people want to go home when it is safe, they will stay as close as they can. People coming to Ireland, are for the most part, people who have links here, they have family or friends here, or they know Irish people here that help them.

I would not have thought we were so much more connected than other countries such as Belgium or Denmark which are both closer to Ukraine and yet we have taken more per capita than them.

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/03/23/some-european-countries-taking-very-low-numbers-of-ukrainian-refugees-pac-chairman-says/

Maybe you're right and I'm wrong.

If I were in government I might try lowering payments to new arrivals to be less of an outlier with our EU peers and see what happens. I don't know a better idea of reducing arrivals with our current housing crisis. Maybe just give up and set up a slum city in a midlands bog for our homeless citizens is a better option. It doesn't feel like that to me but maybe I'm the crazy one.

Oiche mhaith