Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112595#Comment_121112595

And yet we have McEntee and others trying to row that decision back "by stealth" through legislative changes.

Potatoeman

Italian island has 7k refugees arrive in one day, the same number as the entire island:

https://www.euronews.com/2023/09/13/nearly-7000-people-arrive-at-italian-island-in-less-than-24-hours

Potatoeman

A look inside one of the French migrant camps, I hope we don’t get these criminals deported from the UK.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1812988/migrant-crisis-calais-grande-synthe

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121113028#Comment_121113028

It's unfortunately only a matter of time until we see a serious incident (we've already seen several in fact), statistically more likely the more the numbers increase and the conditions worsen causing frustration and anger.

Ireland is not special or unique (except for the benefits we are offering) so there's no reason to think we'd be spared these unfortunate side-effects either.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121113448#Comment_121113448

The irony:

“Standing in the sun, cigarette in hand, he reveals how he’d respond if migrants from around the world descended on the place he called home: “Truly, if that happened to my country, I don’t accept that. I tell you the truth. If that happened in my country I don’t accept it.

“In that situation I can’t get a council house.” “

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121113448#Comment_121113448

Well unfortunately we can expect more. I wish it wasn't so, but since we have absolutely no way of even doing something so basic as identifying anyone who rocks up claiming asylum, how can we be sure that they're not violent criminals, or even terrorist fundraisers as recent cases reported in the media have shown?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111866#Comment_121111866

What 'imported culture wars ' are mine? I have my own opinions and expressed them long before that phrase was invented.

Thats just bs to try to discredit somebody who has lived long enough to know about a creep who never cared for any of his own while in government (why they were handed their cards.. The PDs) and is now busy entrenching himself in a triple pension set up ( ministers' senator's, legal, and now writing his sxxxy column).

No outrage. Just educated opinion. Which I am entitled to express here.. Here is his epitaph after losing his seat for the third time in the short years he was minister as well as leader of his party, leaving them with 2 seats in the Dáil in 2007...

"He was the first sitting Tánaiste to lose his seat, and his subsequent departure from politics makes him the "shortest-serving political-party leader in the history of the State"."

He' s a greedy rightwing xenophobe, and only likeminded and those who don't remember him and his bunch in government would support him.

Its obvious that you and the other poster just looked him up on google with the spiel ye have produced on here.

Joke.

But I suppose I shouldn:t be surprised that people here would support him as one of their own and you are entitled to your opinion whether I rate it or not .

_Puma_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121114606#Comment_121114606

Again your assumptions are wrong.

Even with your outrage, you've nothing to offer to counter the point raised in his column. Just personal attacks.

I don't need to discredit you. Your doing good enough by yourself.

Real Donald Trump

Mayo took a hammering this summer

https://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/70281-mayo-has-lost-a-fifth-of-its-tourist-beds-this-year-as-the-government-has-contracted-out-hotels-and-holiday-homes-to-accommodate-asylum-seekers-and-refugees

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111547#Comment_121111547

Any thoughts to express so @Strazdas @Goldengirl ?

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121114606#Comment_121114606

In boards you’re not supposed to attack the poster just the post yet you just attack McDowell as you clearly don’t like him without addressing his points which are quite valid.

mykrodot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111556#Comment_121111556

You've had well over 24 hours to "peruse" those links saying the majority of Irish people are VERY concerned about the amount of migrants and Ukrainians Ireland has taken in. One poll says 2/3rds of people want limits on the amount of refugees we take, a second poll says 3 out of 4 people think Ireland has already taken too many refugees, third poll reveals 61% of voters are concerned too many refugees are coming here. These are facts!

You are normally very quick to attack every poster that has the temerity questions current Government policy on migration. So can we assume you can see the majority of Irish people don't agree with you and you are wrong to say it is a minority of right wing social media users. Its not.

Kinda blows a hole in theory of your fellow poster/supporter Strazdas" I believe there a natural empathy out there for refugees given our own history. The racists and bigots making noise all over Irish social media are very much a minority and certainly no 'silent majority'....that myth has long since been debunked.

There is no longer a small minority of people on Irish social media questioning what is going on. This is mainstream now. I am 62, I have children and grandchildren. I have 6 siblings and numerous friends in my age group and in their 40's and 50's. NONE of them agree with what is happening in our country. Friends that I would have considered very conservative and liberal are very angry at the speed of and scale of what's happening, the lack of transparency and consultation. There will be a huge swing against the Government in the next election. That is where you will see the majority dissent. Its massive at this stage.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121115004#Comment_121115004

He is a public figure and widely.. eh.. known as is everything I said about him.

I have my opinion as I said, but the facts are available for all to see and it is these facts that colour my opinion.

I am simply stating why that person would not be believed by a lot of people reading that article, a fact of which some posters seemed entirely unaware, apart from rattling off his CV.

But good try there.

I am entitled to legitimately discuss whether any article posted here written by journalist can be taken seriously The fact that he has been characterised as 'racist' and' xenophobic' by many before me is to the point.

I don't have to address 'his points : just as others would not read nor countenance pounts made by o' Gorman, for example.

Going by your premise nobody could critique any article, writer or politician.

People here say things about other public figures all the time. Some of it is not true.. Now that is a problem.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121115038#Comment_121115038

I agree with you but the only option is a protest vote for one of the nutter fringe parties or some sympathetic independent.

All the mainstream parties are on board with the idea we have an obligation to house all who turn up, backed by the Irish media. Disagree and you’re far right, not just being pragmatic that we have only so much room available

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121115064#Comment_121115064

So what do you think he said was wrong?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121115038#Comment_121115038

I don't attack other posters . Posts yes , and not those that criticise the government, but those that are naked wild claims about immigration .

All I will say to you.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121114974#Comment_121114974

You want my thoughts but in the same breath talk about moving goalposts which led me to think you didn't want to hear my opinion, just an argument.

They were good links, reputable sources. 2 talk about the same poll.

All are from over six or seven months ago when there was a lot of hype about large numbers coming in to the country.

Those numbers have gone down and people have been sickened by the attacks on refugees.

I note that even then 51% would support a refugee centre near them, and the majority do not support protests outside centres.

The numbers are still too much for us to put up, because we have a housing crisis. And have for years.

I haven't changed my mind on that.

I have said this all along but posters like to put anyone who disagrees with the prevailing rhetoric in the same homogenous group without listening to any nuance or points of differing opinion.

However I don't agree with painting all refugees as criminals, scroungers or illegal s who are here to take our benefits and give nothing back.

I have seen in my own community that that is not the case and talk like that that comes from a place that doesn't allow for integration and acceptance.

Now cue people accusing me of naivete..🙄

Everyone I know except one or two says similar, but either they are all lying to me, or to the other poster?

Or we just have different experiences?

They really need to do some new polls, Red C and Ipsos, that ask all these questions again to see where people are at and maybe the politicians will take note.

Many people including me, are not happy with thrse people being housed in tents or in student accomodation. While not ideal the camps like in Mosney /Citiwest were better.

rgossip30

Compulsory orders to build asylum centres I wondered when this was coming !! 

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41226649.html?utm_source=irishexaminer&utm_campaign=41226649&utm_medium=lunchtimenewsletter

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121115038#Comment_121115038

There will be a huge swing against the Government in the next election.

Against the government and in favour of who?

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117190#Comment_121117190

Figures recently released show that the State is spending more than €42.1m each month on rental, management and the maintenance of accommodation for asylum seekers.

42 million a MONTH on AS provision, plus an estimate of 3 BILLION this year for Ukrainian support was quoted last year by McGrath:

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irish-support-for-ukrainians-could-cost-three-billion-euro-in-2023-1295455.html

How is this at all sustainable in a country where the cost of living has skyrocketed, people can't find or afford homes (or are being outbid by councils/NGOs using their own taxes against them), violent crime is nearly a daily feature on the Capital's streets (and our Minister for Justice is more concerned about hurt feelings and speed limits), healthcare is falling apart (even private insurance won't cut through it anymore - and that's before the annual "we're at breaking point" campaign from the HSE as winter sets in) etc.

We can't even support those already here yet we are preparing to invite more - because that's exactly what these articles are: global invitations to come and get it.. and now we'll force the repurposing of State (ie: our!) lands to accommodate them while 30-something years olds are back living with their parents!

Then the Government act shocked when they face resistance and criticism from the natives who are being expected to not just pay for this, not just accept being pushed down the priority lists, but should support and advocate for it?? Small wonder that many have had enough and are protesting with still more increasingly grumbling in the background. People who ordinarily would be at worst apathetic are now openly critical of all this in my own experience with it being discussed among friends and in workplaces.

The last time we saw something that unified the population like this was the Irish Water farce of 2014 and that led to tens of thousands taking to the streets and even more just refusing to register or engage. We're heading down the same path I think but all the other elements I've mentioned are causing a level of frustration and anger that even that mess didn't have.

Yet still we haven't been told where the limits are ("there are none" the Government maintain) or WHY we must do this ("legal obligations" we're told - which are demonstrably false!) or WHO it benefits (it's certainly not the people of Ireland, or even the new arrivals at this stage given the conditions!).

I'll keep asking the question until we get an answer - what is really going on here?

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121115064#Comment_121115064

Notable that Mc Dowell is still in politics whereas Gormley dropped out after an election defeat in 2011.

Gatling

And people wonder why they are pushing new hate crime laws through and the media pushing the far right infiltrating Ireland to ramp up anti migrant hysteria ,you mention migrants and bogus asylum seekers your instantly label as a racist to shut down any discussions ,I honestly don't think we will see the mass protests we saw with the water, instead we will get plenty of rte panelists telling us about the far right

lmimmfn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117984#Comment_121117984

Remember everyone who thinks the country is full and that we should stop this madness is "far right". According to those polls 83% of the country is now "far right"

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117984#Comment_121117984

I think outside the confines of Twitter, this forum and other social media, very few are buying or are even bothered by the "you big racist" screeching of NGO types, media pundits angling for a future job as a TD's staffer (or just related to one), and people like Helen McEntee or Leo Varadkar who are constantly trying to be on message with the latest trending crusade.

In the real world, people are seeing their own situations and future prospects deteriorating, living with the problems this has caused and watching their communities transformed virtually overnight in some cases for no reason or benefits to them or theirs.

It's even worse for those who pay for everything and get very little if anything in return - those who earn "too much" for any support but not enough to really benefit from it, those who "get up early in the morning" to see over half their wages taken in tax and charges, but then watch those taxes used to outbid them on property, or used to support anyone and everyone who arrives at the border with a sad story (regardless of if it's true or not) while they struggle to pay their childcare, utility bills and fuel costs, can't get a doctor's appointment in less than a week/fortnight, can't find a school place for their kids if they haven't bid for it years earlier, or have their adult kids back at home because they can't afford or find a place of their own... etc etc.

A (literal) few quid per week back in the Budget - which will be eaten up by increased costs anyway - will do nothing to address any of this or assuage their concerns.

Nobody cares what some RTE presenter says (especially after the revelations of the mismanagement and corruption exposed in RTE during the Tubridy affair) and many have stopped paying their TV license in protest. Many more rarely watch or listen to the "national broadcaster" anyway (which is why the next step is to modify the license to ensure EVERYONE pays for it anyway under penalty of Revenue involvement - charming!)

The problem is that all of the big 3 parties are pushing this current "strategy" which is why I personally think it's being pushed from above (EU level). It's the only thing that makes sense unless our "leaders" and wannabes really want to commit political suicide, and it wouldn't be the first time our "friends" in Europe imposed their will on us - as the late Brian Lenehan learned during the financial crisis and actually tried to resist . Never forget that.

Whatever is really behind this determined effort to ignore reality and the effects these policies are having in Ireland, it's not in our interests anyway.

Strumms

I’m convinced this country / continent is in major major trouble….

i don’t mean it as some sort of anecdotal throw away remark.

the politicians and NGO sector are so absolutely divorced from the lives, feelings, concerns and struggles of real citizens it’s untrue.

So without the vision to grasp the absolute manner in which taxpayers and citizens are being hurled head first in front of a bus….

a seven figure sum of our money sent to Libya now because of their flood….

in addition to that hundreds of our millions in Ukrainian help, both here and their homeland and wait !…. till we are called upon for a dig out, more millions, post war to rebuild it. It’s going to happen ! Plus….and millions in foreign aid per annum sent overseas to other countries.

amazing that they can stand over our citizens enduring some of the worst hospital waiting lists, appalling public transport, that situation could be solved by more investing in healthcare and services and not kicking projects like metro down the road, but of course…. Our wellbeing as citizens and taxpayers is now… secondary. We are being fûcked under the bus headfirst and paying for that privilege.

And Varadkar and MaryLou and co grinning knowing that they won’t be impacted one iota. He’s a millionaire, as is Mary Lou in fact in terms of her cash and net wealth is a multimillionaire too.

So it’s easy for them to not give two fûcks. They could retire tomorrow and they’ll never need to work a day, they can live in complete worry free comfort and opulence for the remainder of their lives. 44/54 respectively but they are sorted.

the rest of us however ! I’m just glad I own the roof over my head. Leo in years gone by has said he isn’t in favour of a bedroom tax but…Sinn Fein have wobbled from in favour, to against it to in favour to against it and god knows where they are on it now. That fact it was ever for a discussion in a democracy like Ireland is vile.

Personally leaving the EU is now the lesser of two evils.

Strazdas

All of the talk of "NGOs, politicians and the media" is completely ignoring that most Irish people are very sympathetic towards refugees - probably given our own history of the Famine and subsequent forced emigration from the country for the next 100 years and more.

There's been a lot made of the fact that Ireland has taken in more Ukrainian refugees per capita than many European countries, but I would suggest this it is no coincidence or accident that this has happened - it very much ties in with what I mentioned above. For sure, the political class and the media are backing this all the way, but there's not much evidence they are out of kilter with the Irish public on this either.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121118555#Comment_121118555

Being sympathetic and having empathy for their situation is not the same as being willing to run our own country off a cliff or push our own needs to the bottom of the pile to meet theirs.

As you well know too, Irish emigrants abroad either found work and shelter or they died. There was no generous social welfare and freebie package waiting for them when they got off the boat.

As for your last point, you're equally well aware that multiple polls have shown the majority have concerns about the approach and feel that we've taken in too many.

Unfortunately ideology and wishful thinking is no match for the unforgiving hard wall of reality - and the reality is that enough is enough, both the view of the people, and the result of the impact this mess is having on the ground in our towns and communities.

_Puma_

*deleted double post *

_Puma_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121115078#Comment_121115078

Nothing to offer after all that was written by said poster on this thread. We got outrage, personal attacks and a "how dare you question me" attitude but this simple question is still open.

Blocked and moving on.

The lid is being opened on these institutions dealings in this government (and the wider political party system) and there are some very uncomfortable people right now trying desperately to shut down any disclosure of their dealings here.

The legislative direction and policy of this government was completely compromised towards the later end of its term post covid in my opinion. Unbalanced influence being wielded by the smallest party in the coalition and what's becoming more clear, outside the elected legislators and party system itself.

The question now is how badly infected our political system has become.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121118775#Comment_121118775

I would again suggest that there is no evidence that the majority of Irish people have any issue with Ukrainian refugees coming to Ireland. If you look at social media, most of the noise about Ukrainian refugees is coming from the far right and the extreme left - the 'usual suspects' in other words.

This business of the 'silent majority' is evidently nonsense. How come the main six or seven political parties are picking up all the support in opinion polls and any party which stands on anti-refugee platform is being totally ignored?