Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

batman_oh

Hopefully I'll be long out of here before it all goes down the toilet. Anybody that thinks this current trend can just continue going unchecked is a serious idealogue. It will lead to EU countries in serious disagreement and god knows what else if they don't get some sort of handle on it. I don't fancy a Sweden situation here but that's exactly what we'll get if we just keep dumping everybody from everywhere into places.

Richard Hillman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128326#Comment_121128326

Nobody in power has any sort of urge to address it. They will let it go and go and go.

The migrant issue isn't going to just stop or slow down. The Lampedusa incident will now be the blueprint for the smugglers. Just sail a floatilla at the island. Then there the earthquake and floods in Morocco and Libya. There's going to be something new every few months.

This stuff isn't going to slow down or stop and they won't do a thing about it.

I am already putting my evacuation plan to Poland in place. There's no future on this island.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128293#Comment_121128293

The problem is though that even if a million homes were built tomorrow, it's not hard to imagine that this thread would still be rumbling on with some other theme as to why the refugee situation is detrimental to the country in some other way. Whether it's the "they're all military aged men" thing, or they're nothing but economic migrants who want to exploit our welfare system, or they're incompatible with our culture, or they're terrorists / sex offenders in waiting — the list goes on. It does sometimes feel like the argument 'against' refugees will take whatever shape it needs to take to latch itself to a current wider issue which the presence of refugees can be blamed for — even if creatively.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128293#Comment_121128293

But how can 'demand' be blamed? It's definitely a factor, but the main part of the problem is surely lack of supply. Trying to bluntly wipe out the demand seems no sort of a solution for a modern developed society and economy. Also, the vast bulk of migrant workers are seeking to rent existing properties, not purchase new ones.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121128371#Comment_121128371

So....due to your opposition to migration policy you will rely on the plan that Poland will take you in....as a migrant? I presume then you will hope that either Poland remains in the free movement sphere to allow you entry or otherwise remains open to you as a migrant for just long enough as is needed for you to get settled there before pulling up the drawbridge.

I question though, in that case, the consistency of your ideology here. If you decide to migrate to Poland in the hope that Poland will present more favourable conditions for you ....what differentiates you from all these "economic migrants"?

That's the thing about migration, it's OK when I do it — as long as others can't.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129163#Comment_121129163

Presumably the poster is an EU citizen. There is freedom of movement within the EU.

Would be a different story if their plan was to emigrate to Canada or Japan or what have you.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129105#Comment_121129105

This has been explained to you. It is both a lack of supply and an excess of demand - that is the state of affairs in our country as is.

The government are scrambling to try and increase supply but this takes time (houses take months to build).

If they are already struggling to meet the levels of demand from the existing Irish population can you please explain how importing 100,000+ people in the space of 18months will not massively exacerbate the insufficiency of that supply?

That additional demand can be stemmed instantly by us capping the current influx.

When we have built our housing supply up to a sufficient level then it would be prudent to revisit any limits. Until then, what you are advocating is reckless head in the sand ignoring of what is actually going on - the existing population still won’t have enough houses and you want thousands of additional people to be competing with them for housing (rental or not), but there won’t be enough for them either.

So nobody will be happy. Except for those that are already sitting pretty and have nothing to lose by going the full moral superiority route.

Richard Hillman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129163#Comment_121129163

The difference is that I am law abiding. I will maintain the social contract. Will not demand the country changes for my specific needs and embrace their culture. Like the Polish did when they arrived here and are slowing returning home.

I am not against migration into Ireland. I welcome the vast majority of migration into Ireland. We as a public agreed to migration into Ireland from the EU. I am personally welcoming of people into the country from countries that share similar values to us and that have a good record of integration. South/Central America, most places in Non-EU Europe, South East Asia, Far East Asia.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121127993#Comment_121127993

Camping in a field in September in Ireland - as you say, it's not a surprise really that it's wet and cold! They should never have been put there in the first place. That's on whoever greenlit the idea.

What jumps out at me though in that article too is the complaining about food choices and no tea and coffee provided - aren't these people getting full welfare? Get and buy it like everyone else. Also asks for heaters and fridges - is that location even setup for that sort of ask?

But ultimately, while I do sympathise about the poor conditions, this is what we have thanks to Government policy and the "no limits" strategy. I personally wouldn't be happy either but there's nothing stopping them getting on a plane and trying somewhere else either.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129273#Comment_121129273

Can you name a country in Europe that bases its immigration laws on the availability or non availability of housing?

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121125484#Comment_121125484

Good points. I didn't mean to advocate just flatly turning them away. But just raising the bar to a pretty high level.

The Irish government has a pretty pathetic record to looking after our own kids. Homelessness and lack of psychlogical services to name but two so I hardly think being harsher to non nationals is beyond them.

The UK got lost in multi culturism which was the grand daddy of wokism. Thus allowing people to bring in wives who spoke no English and in some cases were cousins

There will be no study here as we only do tribunals etc after the blow up

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129480#Comment_121129480

This thread isn’t about immigration Strazdas

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129488#Comment_121129488

British Multiculturalism is not a precursor of woke. What utter tosh.

🤣🤣

British multiculturalism is a direct result of British colonialism and its emergence from the 2nd world war.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129575#Comment_121129575

But it's other people who have introduced the topic of the housing crisis and tried to link it to the refugee situation - personally I don't think the two are linked at all.

lmimmfn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130245#Comment_121130245

we bring in 100,000 extra into the country in ~18 months and that has no impact on the housing crisis? are they all living in tents?

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130245#Comment_121130245

Oh come on.

Look, I think at heart you’re a good person,if a bit naive, who wants the best for people

However it’s becoming more and more difficult to suspend my disbelief that you are not being deliberately obtuse.

How can you possibly suggest that a population injection of 110,000+ people in the space of 18 months is not going to affect access to accommodation for the existing population.

Yes, a good number of these are being put up in hotels currently (with disastrous consequences for our tourism sector, another discussion), but this will not always be the case. They will need to be put somewhere eventually. And they keep coming. More and more and more.

Some will eventually return home. But tens of thousands will stay.

Do you foresee these people remaining in hotels forever? No? Well in that case that means indisputably that they will be requiring housing. Often government provided housing. Of which we already don’t have enough for our own.

To say they will have no impact on our housing system is nothing short of a lie.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130443#Comment_121130443

In the case of refugees, of course it will impact on the situation going forward. But we don't have much choice in the matter, not unless we want to opt out of international refugee law (which pretty much answers the question posed at the head of this thread).

That's not to say though that the government or the public actively want refugees coming here. Nobody really wants it in fact. It's a very expensive process with zero return, and as you say, uses up valuable services and infrastructure - it would be far preferable if we didn't have to accept any refugees at all and better again if there was no such thing as a refugee. But that doesn't get us out of our obligations on the issue.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130486#Comment_121130486

What if we exercised our opt out ala Denmark?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130443#Comment_121130443

110k?

That number includes Ukrainians.

Bit tough to be taljing about sending them home so some tourists can come instead.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130784#Comment_121130784

What opt out have we " ala Denmark"?

Sounds like a simple idea..

https://ichr.ie/irelands-legal-obligations-regarding-asylum-and-immigration/#:~:text=1)%20Under%20the%20Treaty%20of,to%20opt%20into%20these%20laws.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130376#Comment_121130376

We had a housing crisis that was getting exponentially worse long before Ukrainians started coming in. Since coming in the housing crisis has continued to get exponentially worse so I'd say their impact is minimal on the housing crisis

Now FFG, who are currently in government, could do something about the housing crisis and could have done for a long time. However then they might come in for more scrutiny of their policies, whereas making us fight each other will likely win them the 2026 GE

I think Margaret Thatcher used a similar technique, at the time it was called "divide and conquer"

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130940#Comment_121130940

Who said anything about sending them home?

I spoke only of turning off the tap at source.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130969#Comment_121130969

That link outlines exactly what I’m suggesting. Exercising our opt out

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131258#Comment_121131258

You're suggesting the Irish army attack the Russian one? Because the Russian army are the source

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131263#Comment_121131263

Yes . I know . Its simple.

So why are we not , do you think ?

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129710#Comment_121129710

Look whatever you think bút the nonsense of white privilege etc started with multi cultralusm

Thank you so much for the pedantic history lesson though

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131369#Comment_121131369

Yeah if you read the thread you can see that’s what I said.

Brilliant contribution fair play.

Real Donald Trump

People in Cavan standing there ground which is great to see, stay strong, keep it up...

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131445#Comment_121131445

Have given my thoughts on this several times so I’ll just quote the last time

“I would imagine a component is that although the policy is by now clearly unsuitable no one wants to be the first to draw attention to this reality. 

This would be committing wrongthink where our ideologue media is concerned and open them up to criticism and the usual hackneyed accusations of racism etc. Actually incredible that we’re at the point now where suggesting exercising a bit of moderate pragmatism and realpolitik will get you labelled a fascist. 

You’d also get the same from those in opposition taking opportunistic jabs and scoring points over the “moral (and indeed legal!) obligations” we apparently have, resplendent in their virtuosity. 

it will take someone with an actual spine and bit of bravery to stick their head above the parapet and do what’s actually in the interest of the citizens. Unfortunately such people are few and far between amongst the self serving, milquetoast bunch that comprise our government”

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121129232#Comment_121129232

Sorry but why is that different? Moving to another country makes you migrant, free movement or otherwise. Just because the system between two countries makes it easier to be a migrant, doesn't change the fact.