Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

dmakc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262127#Comment_121262127

Nah difference here is one example has the war zone in the host country. The other has the war zone in the home country.

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261414#Comment_121261414

You won't get an answer IMO, or if by a miracle you do, it'll be a short pithy, possibly snarky one that doesn't address the question. Can't be having to acknowledge facts that go against the narrative.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261260#Comment_121261260

There is no deportation of any real substance in this country at the moment.

If anyone says there is, I'm sorry you are wrong. You can show reports or figures all you like but these are made up figures by government and NGOs to bluff people.

If you are found to be here illegally, you are asked to leave the country. Yes your asked to leave the country.

A total farce. And if anyone cares to look this up you will find plenty of examples of immigrants reoffending after being given a deportation order.

Patrick2010

Obviously deportation orders don't work if they are only being requested to leave and not enforced. Assume that lady just ignored the initial deportation order and it was never enforced.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262127#Comment_121262127

Irish went in order to work in the war industries mainly, so they were indirectly helping to defend the country.

Never heard of refugees who had fled a war zone popping back for a quick holiday.

rgossip30

Scotland to take in Palestinian refugees only a matter of time here . A Sinn Fein government will facilitate it for sure .

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-769145

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262294#Comment_121262294

Ah I know yeah - I find it pretty disappointing tbh. They’re happy to throw out unsubstantiated claims and browbeat people with their moralism.

But don’t they have the courage of their convictions or even the simple intellectual honesty to defend what they say.

Because it’s false. And they know in their heart it’s false. I’d prefer if they were just straight up about these costs etc rather than pretending there’s no negatives to Ireland for all this. It’s a tad cowardly.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262780#Comment_121262780

Sure what could go wrong

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262780#Comment_121262780

The name of the minister is very telling.

dmakc

Easy to say when he's no control over British foreign policy. As good as PFB ranting here

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262985#Comment_121262985

Ah yes wasn't he the fella that was complaining that Scotland, a country with 98% white population, had too many white people in power in a recent video? When he is first minister there.

malinheader

Yes but being the Head of the National party should he not be fighting for his own citizens rights, services and welfare.

growleaves

https://www.thejournal.ie/taoiseach-palestine-ukraine-6201643-Oct2023/

LV has said: said: “I think Ukraine is a different category. It’s a European country, it’s an EU candidate state, and we’ve given us a special recognition by granting temporary protection" and "Palestine is different".

I think making this distinction is sensible. With anxieties over terrorism in Europe and having already taken in so many refugees of late, mass migration of Palestinians to Ireland now would be very trying.

Great to see the Government drawing a line here.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121264252#Comment_121264252

And how do they think they are making a distinction now of what nationality alot of these immigrants that have entered the country are. No paperwork or Identification for alot of them so I would love to hear how they make a distinction.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261260#Comment_121261260

How did she fund a restaurant?

_Kaiser_

So in the wake of the devastating floods in Midleton in Cork this week, Leo popped down for a photo op and promised relief of €10m to support:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41251561.html

It will initially consist of €5,000 to help with the immediate damage, with a further €20,000 also available after that. However, the €20,000 limit will need to rise, Mr Varadkar admitted.

"I think we'll have to increase that limit because the level of damage to stock here, particularly to people who bought stock in for Christmas, is very high," he said.

However, he added there would "have to be checks and balances" regarding the limits.

Although he concedes this won't be enough in the article, he gets vague and non-committal when it comes to what other supports will be available.

Well Leo, I have a few questions...

1. Would there be more money available to help, and maybe even temporarily house these people if needed while they get back on their feet, if we weren't spending billions to support people fleeing a country that they had to be asked not to go back to for holidays, or others who are just chancing their arm in the first place?

2. These "checks and balances" you speak of in regard to aid limits. Would it not be/have been a good idea to apply similar limits to a very similar situation we're also dealing with for the last 18 months?

3. Or is it just the natives that "checks and balances", limits, qualifying criteria and restrictions apply to?

It's both simultaneously very telling and fantastic that the locals themselves are doing more to support each other than our Government :

https://www.yaycork.ie/all-these-midleton-businesses-are-offering-services-free-of-charge-after-the-floods/

Local businesses offering food to those assisting in the cleanup, gym and shower facilities, accommodation, removal services, even free help to dry out damaged cars... It's genuinely a fantasic response from these companies for those who need it - and exposes the emptiness of Varadkar's words in the immediate aftermath.

Why aren't the same efforts to hire companies to provide food, accommodation, assistance to people in a field in Laois being brought in to help people who lost their businesses and had their homes destroyed in Cork? Why is it being left to these local businesses to step in?

Funnily enough, I read comments on his visit that he was apparently asked much the same questions by a local when he was touring the town but it didn't seem to go down very well.

I guess it's just not nice to remind him of the facts when he's posing for pictures and shaking hands, or maybe it's that this devastating local issue isn't as sexy on the EU/international stage as him positioning Ireland as a haven for anyone with a sad story - as long as they have to get a boat or plane to get here first.

Priorities eh?

Patrick2010

Great post, someone posted that us allocating 5.5 billion for Ukraine refugees was no big deal, yet imagine what a fraction of that would do for Cork. Health boards will try and save money by the likes of cutting carers hours while the government spends endless amounts on new arrivals

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266139#Comment_121266139

Just trying to figure out motive for this crap by government. Why oh why would you ignore the grievances and problems in your own back yard and keep spending large amounts of monies on people that dont even know where ireland is on the map before they arrived on

malinheader

Until people realise how much this government is out of touch with its citizens and really how much they don’t give a damn about the state of the country it's only going to get worse and worse.

RTE reporting now that the answer to the shortage of lorry drivers in the haulage industry is to take in Drivers from Georgia. Georgia!

So instead of making it easier access for training and more importantly alot cheaper to undergo lessons and a test to obtain a licence for our own citizens . The answer is to take in more immigrants.

One massive and important question is. Will the drivers coming in have to go through the same costly lessons and tests that our drivers have to. Call me a cynic, but I wouldn't say that the training over there is anything as stringent as here. So im thinking some kind of rushed through funded training will have to be given. Filling the country and funding immigrants seems to be the only objective they have.

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266016#Comment_121266016

More telling was the RTE news clip with Leo in the centre of Middleton getting berated by a woman and they put a voice over her grievance about the tiny amount being put forward for those people before cutting back to the end where he said there would be a medium term solution to funding.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266170#Comment_121266170

Yeah but what's 5.5bn in the grand scheme of things. Not like we need to increase funding for flood defences at all

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262659#Comment_121262659

When a deportation order is issued are they still allowed to remain in DP and get welfare ?

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266206#Comment_121266206

That's a very good question.

I myself think that there is not much seriousness taken to deportation in Ireland so I Don't think that there would be to much interest in contacting social welfare departments and the likes. Once you're in the welfare system your in, imo.

I don't think there is much checking of background before or after entering Ireland to tell you the truth.

Look at the lady who opened the cafe recently she spent was it 10 years in DP after receiving a deportation order.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266253#Comment_121266253

Whered the money magically appear to do that anyways? Thought they were coming in with just the clothes on their back from extreme circumstances

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266401#Comment_121266401

My guess, government grants and special set up schemes. Plenty money for non Irish it seems.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266139#Comment_121266139

For me it's not just that the money being offered will be a fraction of the sums being spent to support new arrivals but also the vagueness in his statements about what additional support will be provided.

They're offering 5k to businesses initially with a top up to 20k as it stands. What's the process involved there? How long does it take for the money to be paid out? How do businesses qualify for the top up?

Me thinks that there will no doubt be a raft of forms, evidence and back and forth with presumably the local council before a cent is paid out - not forgetting that it's 2 months to Christmas, both the busiest and most expensive time for many businesses.

Contrast this to how the supports work for the new arrivals - cash and freebies just thrown at them, accommodation arranged virtually overnight, planning rules set aside for temporary housing (yet homeowners have to jump through hoops just to build an extension in their own garden), buses sourced to transport them, companies hired to feed them, provide security and administration etc etc.

The last 18 months have shown that Government can and will act rapidly and at massive expense and scale if it decides to - yet here we have a local disaster where people have lost their business or home and which is being met with the familiar "ah well we'll have to see what else we can do but ah I can't tell you how fast that'll happen because ah we need to review and get local input from the council and well, y'know... Eh"

One of these things is not like the other. The only difference seems to be the latter primarily affects the natives and taxpayers whose problems apparently aren't seen as important or urgent as responding to the needs of new arrivals from wherever.

Why is that?.... Leo?... Micheal?.. Helen?.. Ursula?

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266149#Comment_121266149

If the conclusion is that we can't source these drivers from among the natives and legal migrants already here, I have a suggestion..

How about we source them from the 90,000+ Ukrainians we're paying to do nothing? Or is someone still going to claim it's just "women and children" we've taken in?

It would seem like a win-win situation to me. They give something back to the country that's providing so much to them, and they're not stuck in hotels and fields all day.

Or would that be seen as "exploitation" by the usual suspects (NGOs, twitter warriors and so on). 🙄

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266672#Comment_121266672

It's Questions like these that our representatives in councils and Government should be asking, not normal citizens.

Listening and watching what is going on my conclusion is that alot of people who should be asking and suggesting what you said are up to their necks in the gravy train of refugee accommodation. Healy raes for an example to name one.

No one wants to rock the boat and drowned the golden goose.

rgossip30

Services for the elderly living at home to be cut.

The money is of course diverted to Ukrainians and Asylum seekers .

I remember the last grey revolt in 2013 over budget cutbacks for the elderly got the government to u turn .

https://extra.ie/2023/10/22/news/irish-news/elderly-hse-cuts-pressure-wards

Galwayguy35

Its about time the Government stopped giving Ukrainians the equivalent of two weeks salary in their own country and brought the welfare payments in line with other EU countries.

And on top of that free access to the health service which is already at breaking point.

This war won't end anytime soon and lets be honest most of them are never going back even when it does eventually stop.

And yet we have the Ukrainian Ambassador giving the Government a browbeating on a regular basis that not enough is being done to help them.

I was all for helping out back when this war started but it seems we are being taken for fools in this country at this stage.