Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Patrick2010

Matt Cooper on having his usual immigration discussion by having on two contributors talking about how the far right is behind any protests against any unlimited take in of refugees

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221051#Comment_120221051

You want a Zero Refugee Policy? Right?

There's only so much cake.

It is not like your 'tourists' cannot rip up their passports.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221062#Comment_120221062

Not much value in that statement, it seems QED for the situation? Conservatism is the opposition to unlimited intake of refugees (the majority of the right), and the 'far right' would be in conniptions enough to hit the street about it, while the majority of those on the right are, rather, going about their lives etc. or discussing this only as far as social media or in formal contact with lawmakers, not picketing or demonstration.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120220839#Comment_120220839

The obvious answer is that it would be hugely expensive and easily circumvented. People would land in Belfast, as seemly they are doing now.

Is there not a preclearance agreement to be made with the UK?

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221084#Comment_120221084

This is what happens when you try to import red/blue yank style politics into Ireland. The fact of the matter is we never had any ‘far right’ or ‘far left’ in this country until very recently and most parties were in the centre, the farthest left we had was Sinn Fein which wouldn’t have been considered very far left by world standards until recently.

I can tell you for a fact basic common sense immigration policies and border security were certainly not seen as a “Far Right” policy for near on 100 years of statehood, it was seen as a basic right and function of a normal nation state. This whole “Far Right” narrative has only taken hold in the last couple of years.

In today’s Ireland we only have “The left” and “Far left” if you insist on using that terminology, we have no one left in the centre or centre right as the Overton window has shifted so far left.

Jinglejangle69

People in Turkey and Syria are in need of proper help and shelter.

Shame we can’t help because most of our centres are stuffed with scammers from Georgia and Albania.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221196#Comment_120221196

This is what happens when you try to import red/blue yank style politics into Ireland. The fact of the matter is we never had any ‘far right’ or ‘far left’ in this country until very recently 

How droll, and wrong.

How did Ireland have a revolution a century ago without extremism?

Complain about the label you gave it, the thing it was is yet the same.

In today’s Ireland we only have “The left” and “Far left” if you insist on using that terminology

Rubbish, evidenced by the body of the forum, and it's inexhaustive supply of right wing irish posters with right wing ideas. A Zero Refugee Plan, for instance.

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221238#Comment_120221238

I’m not talking about the revolutionary period. I’m talking about the modern Irish state, after the civil war, our politics more or less normalised.

And a few posters on boards.ie isn’t representative of the political reality of Ireland. I hate to say it, but some random lad in the US can’t really get a great grasp of the situation in Ireland unless you live here.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221271#Comment_120221271

I’m talking about the modern Irish state, after the civil war, our politics more or less normalised.

If you completely gloss over the Troubles and all the extremism and even international guerilla ops, yeah sure. Maybe. I feel like we're really watering down this allegation. As if Ireland had no liberals until William Jefferson Clinton came over on Air Force One. Before that, the whole ship was just saying right, we're all conservatives now..... definitely didn't have any leftist sentiment for the gulf wars, palestine, the war on terror, etc. none of that!

I've lived there, thanks.

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221287#Comment_120221287

I’m sorry but the Troubles didn’t even take place in this country so I have no idea what you were talking about.

Of course Ireland had liberals, I was one of them! I would of been considered a left wing person 25 years ago but now I would be labelled “Far Right” such the Overton window has shifted so dramatically to the left, which goes back to my original point.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221307#Comment_120221307

Not a very useful point, then, back to what I originally said in remark to the lads on the radio.

bertieinexile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218536#Comment_120218536

The nearest pencilled in date for elections is May of next year.

When you consider how much the political rhetoric has changed on immigration in the last two months it would be foolish to predict where FF and FG will be on the issue a year from now.

The question right now is where does the political energy behind this protest movement go. What happens as a result of the voting public shifting its view on immigration.

There has been a capitulation in the rhetoric coming out of government. One consequence is that councillors and backbenchers who were being reined in a couple of months ago are much freer to pursue the populist vote now. Who's going to stop them.

It's natural that they will be reaching out to the local protest organisers. It is natural that the local groups would recognise the advantages these politicians bring in terms of political experience, organisation and pull.

That seems like an obvious channel for the energy we are seeing at the moment.

Bring on board the lower levels of the political parties and you could eventually be looking at ideological capture of the parties themselves.

That would be in the longer term. Short term - if we are waiting a year for an election - you may have no lack of respectable, capable, politically experienced, anti-immigration candidates to vote for. Party men. And not a NP or IFP neophyte among them.

--

I'd be interested in hearing people's take on this, especially those who aren't convinced.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221062#Comment_120221062

The academic from UCC ( Pieras) is one of the most insufferably smug condescending fools on Twitter, constantly characterising protesters as having no agency and of being pawns of malevolent far right string pullers

he embodies the kind of ivory tower liberal progressive who is chronically out of touch with the majority of the electorate

DebDynamite

Can’t believe this is being used as some sort of gotcha! If we were to swap all 50,000* Irish illegals in America since the late 80s with all asylum seekers/ refugees who arrived to Ireland in the same period, there would be a hell of a lot going out than coming in. Nearly 85,000 asylum seekers/refugees came in to Ireland in 2022 alone FFS.

*This fact check article seems to suggest the real figure is actually only around 10,000 - 15,000

https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-undocumented-irish-usa-3559047-Aug2017/

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221509#Comment_120221509

Valid.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/01/03/record-number-of-people-sought-asylum-in-ireland-in-2022/

Bobtheman

Do we have an out of control situation with refugees - debatable.

We certainly have an issue reforming the system.

Should a distinction be made between Ukrainians and others - yes.

For **** sake where do you think Putin will go next after Ukraine??

Either you believe in democracy or you don't

Housing is our major issue. Even if we had zero refugees we would have a major issue.

Protesting outside tents or hotels is a joke. Protest outside the department of Justice.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221443#Comment_120221443

I don't think immigration is a big enough issue in Ireland to get a TD elected. The anti-immigration guys / protesters are making desperate attempts to link the housing crisis, hospital waiting lists, crime levels etc to immigration but it doesn't seem to be gaining any traction. For example, Sinn Fein have set themselves up as the party who will (purportedly) solve the housing crisis, so that immediately pulls the rug from a lot of other current opposition parties on this issue.

You could certainly imagine the mainstream parties adopting a somewhat stricter viewpoint on what might be called "illegal" immigration but they will go nowhere far enough to give the protesters what they want.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222199#Comment_120222199

The protestors have had huge successes so far, not least making this a national issue and a national issue of conversation.

Changes in government policy on refugees in terms of Garda spot checks and accelerating deportations. Something which a few months ago was deemed as racist.

The protestors have also ensured that buildings in council areas won't now be used for refugees given the potential for social unrest.

The government is going to be forced to house people in the middle of no where.

The power of protest.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222221#Comment_120222221

I would actually agree on most of your points and the protest guys have been very clever in their use of social media to promote their viewpoints.

But there is also a danger of hugely overestimating what is actually going on. People are probably spending far more time discussing the protests around the country and who or what is behind them, rather than the actual issue of refugees arriving. There does seem to be an element of it (refugee issue) being something of a 'manufactured' crisis, rather than one that has the entire nation gripped and talking about it non stop.

The same goes for the refugees in dinghies issue in the UK.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222260#Comment_120222260

It's in the early stages of this crisis. I think you're forgetting that.

We're expected to take another 70,000 people this year.

If the government doesn't take a harder line on refugees, which is want the public want, we could see a drift to anti refugee independents and parties. But that's not to say they will garner mass appeal.

I think it's fairly clear that TDs who have taken a public pro refugee stance and called their own voters racist are almost certainly going to lose their seats.

I'd be shocked if Paul Murphy wins again. He was on dodgy ground anyway. Others like Gary Gannon are also in danger.

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222260#Comment_120222260

The "most read" article in the Irish Times today is on two bogus asylum seekers. Seems there is quite a bit of interest in this entire asylum racket, even among the liberal elite reading the IT.

minimary

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221481#Comment_120221481

I'm always amazed at how much credit they give the far right like if they were able to do everything that the media claims the far right is able to do then the National Party would have a fair few TD's and Councillors. From what I can see the far right in Ireland are incredibly disorganised and turn people away from the cause they are trying to promote.

Instead of turning the far right into a bogey man they should actually listen to peoples concerns, they never learn that demonising people won't make them "think correctly". Its exactly the same mistake they made with Brexit. I was talking to a family member tonight, I would not describe him as far right, I would have described him as a leftie if anything but he was saying that he agrees with the protest because his area has taken a lot of Ukranians and asylum seekers and its really affecting his childrens education. The classroom levels have gone up hugely without a corresponding increase in teachers and also its children without English as a first language and learning Irish etc for the first time. He feels like his childrens education is being sacrificed, hes not being influenced by anything nefarious but he says when he sees commentators and politicans try to claim that no one is being disadvantaged by this he feels betrayed because he knows what his children tell him about what their day at school was spent on

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222410#Comment_120222410

This is a valid point.

Opposing the levels of immigration doesnt make you far right.

It simply means you oppose the current levels of immigration.

There could be many reasons for that and they are not all tied to extremism.

Without engagement from the govt with all sides of the argument there will be more and more unrest bubbling under the surface.

The best way to deal with far right ideals is to engage with those that oppose the current levels of immigration but are no way far right in their belief or outlook.

If the govt doesnt engage with these people, guess which way those people are lilkley to turn for support.

These people also now appear to be the majority.

56% and rising.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222289#Comment_120222289

I still have my doubts how much traction this has. It's very topical at the moment because of the large numbers of Ukrainians arriving and the current housing / accommodation shortages but will this still be front of the agenda by the time of the next general election (late autumn 2024)? Witness how Covid and lockdowns have already retreated into being a non issue, after totally dominating the Irish news cycle for 18 months or more.

screamer

They’re going to look to use schools as summer accommodation now. Totally messed up all of this. The bigger issue is that because we are too soft on non genuine refugees and granting them asylum they can then bring in their whole family, so 70k is just the start. How we are going to fund all of this, God only knows maybe that’s why Bertie is back, to grow magic money trees again.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222464#Comment_120222464

That's because COVID lockdowns have ended. If we were still in one, I can guarantee it would be dominating the news agenda.

This topic is not going to go away quietly unless there is a major turn of events. Either the state somehow magics up 10000 beds by April, and continues to magic them up until the end of the year or the war in Ukraine ends or some other reason that makes migrants want to leave rather than come here.

From the initial reports from the EU summit, it looks like the mood has significantly changed at European level. Talking about things such as only processing asylum claims in the country of origin are a complete departure on the old way.

Vestiapx

Take this as you like it but it's the truth.

I came out of a shop yesterday and the cops were clearly running towards something. So being an innocent and politically uninvolved man I followed them. They we it was a protest where anti immigration and pro immigration / Ukrainian / refugee / I don't know , people were shouting.

The pri immigration people were just people, right or wrong they were just people.

The anti immigration or anti refugee people were clearly taking advantage of the COVID thing, they were wearing masks and goodies and being quite anonymous. One of the males stared at me, just his eyes and he probably forgot he was all masked up so didn't realise he was looking like an ninja buts he was quite intimidating,

I suppose my point is that the pro refugee or immigration people seem friendlier than the others .

Friendly wins in the long term

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222464#Comment_120222464

No end in sight to Ukrainians (and many more) arriving and accommodation issues will only get more acute. People have been sleep-walked into this mess for the past few years and now they have woken up, so the political calculus has all changed. There is lots of discontent to come, not least of all from the refugees who won't take well to being shipped around like cattle to various fields, schools, and run-down office blocks. It's only a matter of time before they, too, start protesting. The whole affair is an almighty mess, but this is what happens when your politicians are serving Brussels, and not their own people. Validation from Brussels is all that matters in that game.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222464#Comment_120222464

Just wait until they fast track Ukraine EU status. We can add another 20k to the housing lists overnight 👍👍

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221882#Comment_120221882

Protesting outside government buildings would be completely ignored by government and media