Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Coolcormack1979

Look at the spin being put on that fire today that it was for local homeless.that only became known sometime mid morning today and then the usual suspects in the media start parroting the same bullsh€t line. Poor Conor pope of the immigration times on Twitter was traumatised.

any right minded person doesn’t believe in this type of behaviour but when the government ain’t listening to the far right public this type of incident is inevitable.

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555181#Comment_121555181

Why just far right public

boredyooser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555118#Comment_121555118

You can ask the question, but my God ! Are you actually for real ? Are you actually unable to to comprehend a brief illustration of the British experience ?

I never said that at all. Nothing whatsoever about children going to schools.

I made the point that the change is British society has been so slow, yet relentless, that many British didn't immediately notice.

I made a point about the speed and size and impact of mass immigration in Britain.

It was nothing to do about schools. It was about growth and change.

If you would like an elboration to explain.

The point I was making that since mass immigration started in the UK after WW2, 70 plus years ago, the small and at the time manageable cultural difference's due to the British Empire and its subjects ( which any adult Irish immigrant to the UK the 1950s and some of the 1960s were, and therefore eligable for benefits and housing and so on ) has changed beyond all recognition. At the time, the immigrant population was small and encouraged to integrate, to learn and share the culture.

The difference in th appearance of people might be noticable, but a difference in culture was not.

But 70 years later, the population is large, and due to the promotion of multi culturalism ( which actually results in multiple pockets of Mono Culturalism ) technology and the overwhelming numbers of incomers with high birth rates, a societal change has occurred, with " birds of a feather flocking together ". Not so much white flight, as cultural conglomeration.

Now, people have no reason to integrate into a shared culture or a shared community. A Pakistani female dominated by male relatives in her home town, can get on a plane, fly to the UK, be picked up at the airport, married off to a relative, and taken to live in a clump of streets in Ilford or Barking or Luton where there are only other Pakistanis and the culture she left exists exactly as she arrived. The shops cater for the community, people have Satellite TV to watch programmes from home, the culture is exactly and instead of enjoying British freedoms, she is dominated by males exactly as she was in Lahore. Nobody in the area is White British, nor speaks English, and she can Facetime the relatives at home, living the same life she lived in Lahore, with no knowledge of her rights and freedoms in Britain. A prisoner of her culture.

My post was about the slow growth, yet remarkable changes. Nothing to do with kids at school

boredyooser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121554993#Comment_121554993

This may be the in Ireland case now.

As it was the case in 1950 in Britain.

However, a critical masses arose, things changed.

Some communities, such as the Irish, the Caribbeans and the Indians, made efforts to integrate themselves into society. There are many " mixed heritage " folk with heritage from the British and these communities.

Other communities, such as Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Somalians have made efforts to remain insular, for reasons such a political power, for territory, to acquire social housing, and sometimes out of plain bigotry towards other communities.

Ireland has 70 years of this Social Experiment to go.

Of course there are precedents and experiences and data elsewhere in Europe would the politicians to try to manage the issues that will present themselves in Irish society.

Rather than put their heads in the sand and simultaneously squawk " it will all be grand " and " look the far right ".

Gamergurll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555118#Comment_121555118

Apologies, have I read over the part in the post you quoted when they said they had a problem with mixed race children mixing in schools, I seem to have missed it? Why are you bringing race into it, is it an attempt to embarrass the poster and shut down debate?

No one with a brain gives a toss what colour someone's skin is. You're assuming all posters here are white, I and I assume many other posters have extended family of various ethnicity, my children have friends from all over the world, I would hate to think skin colour was ever the reason for me judging someone.

The poster already replied and worded it alot better than me but this is not 'racism', no matter how much the media love to throw that word around, a lot of this is going back to cultures and dinosaur views a lot of these men are bringing with them. Do we want to end up with areas with sharia law or fgm, a lot of these things shouldn't be acceptable in a European country. I can only speak for myself obviously but I have never seen anyone comment negativity about 'colour'

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121553300#Comment_121553300

Yea rare a family as deliveroo cyclist. And stand on your own 2 feet with no government supports. Ffs🙄

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555864#Comment_121555864

Around 10% of the Irish population are UK or EU citizens : that would be mostly white and Christian. Talk of Irish culture getting lost or subsumed is greatly exaggerated. Many non nationals actively want to integrate and actually like and respect Irish culture (I've had dozens of conversations with non nationals over the years where they ask me all about Irish history and the Irish language, usually bringing up the subject themselves.....I'm sure many people here have experienced the same).

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555814#Comment_121555814

I quoted your wrong post. This is what you said in the post I meant to quote

They didn't notice the gradual changes, until they noticed their grandchild is the only white kid in their class at the same school in the 2020s

So to be clear, you don't see anything negative with that situation?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555151#Comment_121555151

Maybe it is spin but the fact remains that it could have housed homeless people. It could have. Right now, it cannot house anyone. The utter brainless idiots that burn buildings should not be lauded in any way whatsoever. It's a very slippery slope.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557706#Comment_121557706

I don't think you'll find many people lauding them (out aloud, in public) but it's clear from the past few weeks that a lot of people simply don't care if these buildings are destroyed.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557775#Comment_121557775

Which is tacit support for scumbag vigilaltism

boredyooser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121556595#Comment_121556595

Its a simple observation of fact. Water is wet. Grass is green. The sky is blue. In England, especially various areas of London, there are examples of where there was only one " Black Kid " in a school class in the 1970's, a situation has arisen where now that same classroom in that same school have classes where there is only one " White Kid ". In fact, in some areas of London, there are no white kids in a class. It's an observation. An observation that in some sense is a remarkable illustration of change.

I'm really failing to grasp the point you wish to make ? Your talk of quotas is nonsensical. Kids will go to schools within the local catchment area. The catchment area will reflect the demographics of the local population. There are Church of England schools where the majority of female pupils are not only from a Pakistani or Bangladeshi background, but are Hijab wearers. Nothing to do with quotas, simply a reflection of modern British society. I don't know much about Church of England schools and what this means for them. But another observation.

Do you have a point ?

RobbieV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557775#Comment_121557775

The strange thing about that building is there is no listed planning application to turn it into a "homeless centre"

What change of use proposals don't require planning permission?

Change of use into an asylum accommodation centre.

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557706#Comment_121557706

Oh you may have got me wrong due to how I wrote that but I no way condone anything my post was not meant to be positive to them in anyway

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557775#Comment_121557775

There are some in here who are going condone this fully and then go but and I put you in that category. You say one thing and then go but I don't mind they burn the places down

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557929#Comment_121557929

I would suggest it's the other way around. The anti-refugee protests that we've seen around the country are usually relatively small and mostly male (often middle aged and older). Where are the women and young people at these protests?

Anyone who thinks we are seeing the start of some big grassroots movement centred around immigration and populist politics may be in for major disappointment at the next general election. The water charges protests of 2015 (some that even erupted into violence) didn't result in a major seismic shift in Irish politics in the 2016 general election - FF and FG pulled in 60% of the votes.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558056#Comment_121558056

Do you have a point? Otherwise, I've no idea why you referred to the demographics. A simple of observation of fact, like water is wet, seems fairly pointless.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558388#Comment_121558388

That's not what I said so don't go attributing what you think I said to me. Thanks.

I said that there's been no public uproar over the fires, and two FF councillors felt comfortable enough to equivocate on the issue - this demonstrates that there is, at a minimum, general ambivalence towards this kind of direct action at best. What do you think that tells you?

I've never stated my opinion on the matter, but to be clear, I don't condone arson.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558433#Comment_121558433

It was women and children at the front of the Killarney silent protest. I personally don't like seeing children at any political protest because they don't have their own agency, but they were there.

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558705#Comment_121558705

Okay I took you up wrong I apologise.

Edit

I took it up wrong the last sentence about the properties should have read it better

Jizique

Women and children blocking Aungier Street last spring (worked, that hostel remains empty), Women and children at front of East Wall protests

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558758#Comment_121558758

Numbers still very small though. There are people making a whole load of noise about immigration and refugees on social media and flooding the place with tweets, retweets and videos but there's very little sign of this transferring to a grassroots movement - monthly opinion polls of the state of the Irish political parties barely shifted at all during 2023, despite all this background noise.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558868#Comment_121558868

That's because all government and opposition parties are aligned with the current policies.

There is no grassroots movement because only a tiny number of people have the time or care enough to protest, and only then if a center is opening in their locality.

The Irish are very much a beaten down subservient population who can sustain pretty extreme poor treatment without making much of a fuss.

boredyooser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558703#Comment_121558703

Yes.

In 70 years of mass immigration, parts of the UK have been transformed. The White British population have in some areas become not just a minority, but an overwhelming minority.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558976#Comment_121558976

I don't believe refugees or immigration are a burning issue or top priority for the Irish public. Very few people for example are impacted (as a percentage of the population) by things such as temporary refugee centres being opened in isolated rural areas....these are effectively 'local' issues for certain small rural communities.

Voters are much more likely to be swayed by national issues such as cost of living, energy prices, the housing crisis, the health service, law and order and so on.

tikka16751

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559692#Comment_121559692

All those issues are because of illegal immigration.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559692#Comment_121559692

'I don't believe refugees or immigration are a burning issue or top priority for the Irish public.'

Then why you spend every day of your life debating online with people who want to restrict it? According to you, such people must be very few in number and have no sway.

Cost of living is connected to immigration as political leaders simultaneously bring in cheap labour and welfare magnets, which also stresses underdeveloped infrastructure (like housing - but not just housing). It is on the radar for people more and more and I think you know that.

The Irish public are not 'single issue' of course but people do join the dots between the in-migration of people with their concerns over general costs and infrastructure. (There is also some anxiety about crime and cultural change - how much I don't really know.)

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121556114#Comment_121556114

Yes. A friend of mine teaches in a local primary school and he says the non nationals in the school are much better at the irish language than the irish kids. They value it greatly and are more adept at speaking many languages.

Most open minded people see immigration as enriching while the more insecure insular types fear irish cultural dilution.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121559789#Comment_121559789

You seem to forget that there is an official ideology - called multiculturalism - that actively discourages social/cultural reproduction and assimilation by immigrants. Many people in high places promote this ideology very assiduously.

So if non nationals for instance refused to speak English or interact with Irish natives at all that would be seen as a valid option for them as far as officialdom is concerned.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558976#Comment_121558976

If it really was a serious problem a lot more people would find the 'time' and 'care enough to protest ' as you put it.

Just because there isn't the amount of opposition to immigration that you'd like there to be does not mean irish people are too subservient. The truth is most irish people appreciate the desperate situation a lot of the migrants have found themselves in and thankfully this empathy overrides any concerns about having room for them.