Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Bobtheman

Immigration is causing pressure on services. We don't have a functional housing system or health system

Whatever about legal immigration why the hell are we still talking Ukrainians? Or other refugees.

We have done our part for the Ukrainians. Enough is enough

As to other non European refugees nobody buys the cock and bull story that they fled over thousands of miles and just landed here. Skipping 10-20 nations.

The modern refugee system is not fit for purpose.

Unfortunately Martin and Leo have handed the population a fixed point of protest over the housing issue

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121782969#Comment_121782969

You don't get benefits straight away. That doesn't happen and you know it.

Ireland basically has a lot of people probably 50%of the population on medical cards. The rest of us are paying 70 euro a go.

I'm sure immigrants make that situation worse but to be fair they are working and thus we need them

But every Irish citizen should get access to a doctor rather than Irish citizens being ridden every time they go to the doctor. Some of us anyway

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783162#Comment_121783162

This may help.

Phat Cat

I'm not sure if this has already been posted but The Department of Justice spent an estimated €270,000 on deportation flights last year, with tickets for a single operation to Argentina costing more than €20,000.

On certain long-distance trips, business-class travel had to be booked for gardaí carrying out the forced removal, according to records obtained from the department.

Among the most expensive flights, €18,758 was spent last September taking a failed asylum-seeker back to their home country of Mozambique.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/20000-was-spent-on-deportation-flights-for-one-asylum-seeker-as-total-for-last-year-reached-269045/a156968188.html

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785422#Comment_121785422

This has been mentioned a few times on this thread before (and has invariably been completely ignored by the deportation supporters). Deporting somebody is a hugely costly and complicated procedure, involving tons of paperwork and Garda man hours. The deportation advocates seem to think it's as simple as stamping a form and paying the cost of a one way air ticket.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785492#Comment_121785492

And that's all it should be - a one way air or boat ticket to the country from whence they arrived here. Let them look after them there and send them on their way again.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785790#Comment_121785790

We'd all love complicated things to be easy

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785804#Comment_121785804

It's only complicated because the likes of you want to make it complicated. Your rationale is that the more complicated it is, the less can be done about it and the easier it is to do nothing.

Ninthlife

Deporting costs is money well spent vs the costvof keeping some here.

Deportation costs should be reclaimed from the country of origin too

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785850#Comment_121785850

But what would be the cost to the state of a person with a deportation order against them? And in what way are they being 'kept' here? They have literally been ordered by the State to leave and told that they are not wanted here.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785850#Comment_121785850

And why would the country of origin have any interest in paying?

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785830#Comment_121785830

No. My rationale is things can't be waved easily like you wish they could.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785850#Comment_121785850

Yes and shops should pay me to buy stuff.

US3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783807#Comment_121783807

Mod

Warned for this post.

US3

Mod

Thread banned user warned.

patnor1011

Everyone who think we should take more should go ahead to help with cleaning the Hague after Saturday night of culture enrichment.

And I thought only far right likes to play with fire.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/2024/02/arrests-and-arson-during-eritrean-festival-riots-in-the-hague/

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786183#Comment_121786183

We give aid to a lot of these countries. Tell them that this is given on the basis of them taking their dregs back. No returns, no aid. So pay the odd €20k or so and get a few million or lose a few million.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786862#Comment_121786862

Do we actually give aid to Mexico, Brazil, Georgia and Albania?

tom23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786938#Comment_121786938

Dont be giving the government any ideas pleas. They have a few billion euros burning a hole in their pocket. And they are dying to save the world. One continent at a time.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785492#Comment_121785492

Well at least it's a once off quantifiable amount.

Lesser evil that letting a spurious economic immigrant stay here , as a constant drain on finances and then bring another group in as part of family repatriation.

I said it before and say it again this country is fcuked. The muppets in leinster house and local government are spending money like its going out of fashion. Never again to see a poor day.

This huge corporate tax take from foreign industry is not going to last forever.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787061#Comment_121787061

The idea of chartered deportation flights to certain designated countries as suggested by McEntee appears a much more sensible option. Flying one person to somewhere in Africa or South America with two Garda officers seems almost way more hassle than it is worth.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121779637#Comment_121779637

Reading back having been away for a few days, so this may have been addressed...

Refugees are not the root causes of the many issues we've faced in this country for the last decade, no - however they are certainly adding to them now and indirectly adding to a sense of frustration and anger that I haven't seen since 2014 with the Irish Water experiment FG forced on everyone then too.

Plus the billions that are being spent on this programme could be better served addressing some of those other issues first. We already contribute (significantly for our size) to foreign aid and did so even during the recession years, but there'a no reason to bring these people and their problems to Ireland too. Charity begins at home and, as you've rightly pointed out, an entire generation of Irish people have had their lives put on hold (or at least significantly delayed) by this situation and the attention that it's diverting from the areas that need and deserve it.

I grant you, competent leadership and effective spend of the money that there is (which is by no means unlimited) remains a problem either way, but that's where we need to learn to vote properly in this country as citizens. Stop voting for the same TD you always have (unless you're genuinely impresed by their performance) or the TD/party your parents voted for (those party's have changed significantly in even the last 10 years with all of them having shifted left to varying but noticable degrees). Start holding them to account not only once every few years at the polls but by engaging with them ... etc etc.

Removing a huge number of refugees from Ireland won't fix our problem overnight, but it will allow renewed focus on them if nothing else. There's a whole vast world out there - why are they travelling across most of Europe or Africa (ignoring the many safe countries they come to in the process) to arrive on a small island on the edge of the Atlantic that has nowhere for them anyway?

A refugee by definition is seeking refuge - a safe port for them to stay temporarily until the situation that caused them to leave is resolved. Trekking across a continent or two seems at odds with that idea. Is it refuge they want, or the best opportunities because if the latter then they don't qualify for the supports given to the former anyway and are in fact an economic migrant which is a very different thing.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787113#Comment_121787113

Good point.

Maybe just repatriate to the country of last departure point.

Very few direct flights into Ireland from these far flung destinations.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121780492#Comment_121780492

Why should they? An Irish person loses benefits immediately after taking up employment - in fact they lose it before they are paid their first week's/months wages which can cause a significant gap (increased but essential expenses of transport, suitable clothing, food/lunch, maybe childcare etc etc).

Their rent will also be reassessed in line with their new income level and increased accordingly.

Why should refugees be given more exceptions to the rules?

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786674#Comment_121786674

It's a bit like all these protests in support of Gaza. People supporting and advocating for things they have only a superficial understanding of.

As you point out, it's not just Russia and Putin who have no issue with modifying "democracy" to suit their political ends. In the same way, Hamas aren't innocent of murder and destruction either. None of these 4 "sides" are innocent.

I suppose it's an indicator of the low-attention-span, soundbite, Twitter world we live in now which is ironic considering the vast amount of history and information freely available to anyone who cares to look.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787131#Comment_121787131

I have stated that point that the people arriving here are not true refugees outside of Ukraine.

They are economic migrants. As you state they skip several nations to get here.

You are right about voting. Independents are a particular bug bear of mine. They should be banned or at least made join a party that contests say 3 different constitutencies. They offer no coherent chance of national change.

I'm probably voting SF and as a middle class landlord I am nervous.

I pay for health insurance which allows more beds in the public.

I pay 70 euro each time I see a doctor effectively subsidising medical cards.

I don't mind this I just don't want to pay more taxes. Enough is enough

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787131#Comment_121787131

Well, to your first point — the current elevated numbers are due to a continental European refugee crisis on a scale not seen since WW2. It's hard to see how we could have managed it perfectly or escaped any shock — I mean — what number would have been acceptable and perfect and presented no downside? Would these threads be placated by the 30,000 that 'zero refugee' Denmark took in? Personally, I see the decades of bad policy and planning on housing — right up to suspending construction during Covid as being the problems. You can't fully legislate or plan well for a Russian invasion of a European nation.

And when the refugee spike here subsides, which it will, the same problems will exist unless the actual housing policy issues are addressed. To the extent that the spike in refugee numbers is causing an upward pressure on rents and house prices — I find it hard to envisage that, without this spike, rents and house prices would plummet.

And furthermore — I do have a fundamental issue even as a starting point when demand is blamed for a lack of supply. Otherwise, how could you also credibly support the idea of Irish emigrants worldwide returning home?

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786938#Comment_121786938

Georgia and Albania wish to join the EU. No returns now, we veto your application. The Georgian ambassador has spoken out that it is a safe country so I don’t see them having any issues with us returning people.

Mexico and Brazil are well down the list and could both be stemmed by tightening up our English language “schools” nonsense.