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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Yep whatever it takes. Get him away from the helm. Justice does make a little more sense. McEntee back soon probably too. She would fail too but it will expose her quickly because she is punching above her weight so to speak.

    Post edited by Cluedo Monopoly on

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Your assumption is irrelevant and I don't care how toxic it is. FF have Health and Housing which are also toxic and will be for years.

    Someone has to manage it. Someone in FG.

    Is your plan that we keep O'Gorman there so we can watch him (and Ireland) fail for 2 years? Just so we can vote him out? He will lose his seat and move on with his life. Big deal. Not much of a plan.

    It's not about who wants what - Leo appoints who he thinks is the best person for the job. If they refuse, off to the backbenches with them.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭clytemnestra


    It's actually shocking how unqualified and incompetent O'Gorman is. Look at his CV. Lecturer in a D-list private college for five years, then into DCU. Even his academic career is mediocre, let alone any experience in administration or public office. And here he is presiding over a permanent change in Irish society from which there is no going back and which no-one voted for. McEntee is of a similar calibre. Just terrifying, really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    He is utterly clueless. I said it earlier in the thread, but I read his deluded ‘white paper’ when it was published, committing to own door accommodation after 4 months. Alarm bells immediately started to ring.

    I happen to live in his constituency and contacted all my local TDs, including Varadkar. Jack Chambers was the only one to respond and I actually met with his parliamentary representative to express my disquiet. He committed to raising it with Chambers, but this likely never happened.

    A child could have foreseen the consequences of O’Gorman’s policy. It beggars belief that he was permitted to move forward in this manner, inflicting as you say, an irrevocable demographic change on the Irish people. He had zero mandate to do this and it’s a damage limitation exercise at best now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    This is actually embarrassing and not your post.

    I agree he is totally out of his depth.

    We need a strict rule to stop chancers coming in and actually have the supports for genuine refugees.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    The thing is that this is only the start of it. There will be economic migrants and asylum seekers coming to Ireland for the next few decades at least. Nothing will stop them crossing the Med into Europe. Nothing will stop them crossing the Channel and nothing will stop them coming into Ireland if they want to. It needs strong leadership to manage it. Strong laws, strong policies. However the title of the thread is meaninglessness - migration will happen no matter what. And don't fool yourself, you'd do exactly the same in their shoes. We all would.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭bertieinexile


    While the vitriol and derision for O'Gorman is well deserved it should be shared with Micheal Martin.

    Martin oversaw all of this. The whole time in office he appeared to listen to no one outside his advisors - even his own TDs. The entire country seems to have been sacrificed to his desire to be remembered as nice Micheal Martin - the kind of Fianna Failer anyone could give a vote to for President. And nice people don't turn away asylum seekers.

    Question for the group: If Varadkar were to keep up the rhetoric, and even start delivering, on stronger borders would you be able to overlook everything up to now. Could Varadkar revive FGs fortunes this way? Or is there too much history and too much baggage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,664 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Apparently the population wants to vote in SF. If you're concerned about qualifications of TDs un government roles you ain't seen nothing yet!



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,352 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    It's actually worth pointing out that O'Gorman is not in charge of immigration, but integration. Immigration policy is set by Justice. Accommodation provision and associated supports are set by O'Gorman's DCEDIY. So responsibility is split between the two departments in terms of overall policy approach. It is a reasonable argument to make that O'Gorman has increased the pull factor to make Justices job harder. His tenure has been a disaster and it's telling that no other department wants to help him out.

    The NGO's want to see an immigration Czar, effectively pulling immigration policy out of Justice, integration from DCEDIY and into its own mini department. I am firmly against this proposal - as a small department like that is a prime ministry to target for an ideologically driven junior coalition partner.

    It is better policy be handled by justice as a larger more centerist party should then hold it - ensuring more balance and competence in the office. That said Harris, McEntee and Humphreys do not rank among the greats who held such high office.



  • Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭minimary


    I think they'll talk a big talk about reforming it and bring in nothing that makes a tangible difference to the system. I mean the single process was brought in years and years ago now and it didn't make things any quicker.

    I'll believe its not just rhetoric when they don't back down on a deportation order for someone with local support/does a short hunger strike.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So essentially by throwing ogorman under the bus , Micheal and Leo caused this mess to let him fail ? That’s treasonous



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    So you have proof the overwhelming majority of Irish who emigrate are chancers. They have to work no hand outs .



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    It looks like the British are serious about shifting them off to Rwanda. If so look at refugees changing tack and heading straight thru Uk to Ireland instead.

    Same kind of protests happening in Ireland happening in UK now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    We do get a lot of economic migrants masquerading as genuine asylum seekers from countries not at war. Varadkar expects another 30 to 40 k asylum seekers. We are moving in the same direction will thecosequances be any different .



  • Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭bertieinexile


    I think the government will be forced in to action against "refugees" sooner than you might expect.

    Some hotels will refuse to renew contracts over the next few weeks. The "refugees" will then be asked to give up hotel rooms for, in some cases, sleeping bags in halls. They may not see that as attractive. Who do you send in to get them out. In what state will they leave their accommodation if they are being dragged out.

    Government facing down "refugees" changes the whole dynamic. It's a new and very different narrative than the one we've been living with for the last year.

    We're all Far Right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭UsBus


    Already heard a couple of local radio stations this morning discussing 'far right' problems here. The level of propaganda here now is ridiculous. Media and government so out of touch with the valid concerns of the majority of this country.

    Protests in the UK, Liverpool especially have stepped up due to the outrage of their immigration policy. Similar will happen here the longer people are ignored and fobbed off as far right. This country might finally wake up and adopt a French flavour of protest to persuade our clueless politicians they need to change direction and quick.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    White guilt is a core tenet of Green Party ideology



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    As someone recently commented, the Geneva Convention wasn’t written when Ryanair could fly folks across twenty European countries for less than fifty quid one way

    nothing about the entire asylum system is fit for purpose in 2023



  • Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    All the while the Irish have nothing to be guilty over, we never had an empire or colonies and never waged wars of aggression.

    Even the Ukraine issue has absolutely nothing to do with us, we’re not in NATO or connected to Russia in anyway. We should take refugees because it’s the right thing to do but not take so many that we’re causing problems for ourselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Mullaghteelin



    This behaviour would have been considered borderline treasonous not so long ago. Politicians primary responsibilities should be to their constituents, the countries' electorate, and taxpayers who pay their wages.

    No one questioned how spending money and resources publishing invites in multiple languages was possibly going to help integrate those already here? Did no one point out that it may kill any prospect of fixing the housing crisis in the near future?

    I have heard interviews with left wing politicians, such as UK labour, were they more or less admit they are only in politics to change the world, and view their own electorate as a small and trivial part of that. If we had a real media to ask the right questions, we might be shocked at what politicans truly think of us.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    The Liverpool situation was violence orchestrated by far right

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,633 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Reading the tweets and comments on the immigration issue from both the left and right and you can see things are starting to turn ugly and some of the stuff is just childish carry on where you have one side gloating because they had more at their protest than the other side and then you have other side claiming they are being attacked and the gardai are turning a blind eye. Looking at this and reading about it you can see it is going to get worse and it is not being helped by the comments coming from politicians.

    The government need to move on this, they ignored the calls about this last year when it was first reported about people turning up and claiming to have lost their passports or documents. I have no problem with immigration and I do think it is a good thing but what we have at the moment is not a good thing and will turn more and more people against immigrants be they here legally or whatever. The government should have had all this in place years ago, every country needs to strong immigration controls and proper border protection, simple as that and people going around saying will my neighbour is not vetted so why should immigrants are just being pig headed, everyone when they go to the likes of the US or Australia has to fill out forms stating who they are what their passport number is and stuff like that before they even get on a plane, I know I had to do it to go to the US on Holidays last year, and it was no problem to me to do it. This is what every country should have and people turning claiming asylum should be investigated before being given that asylum it is common sense.

    We have not problems in this country with our own home grown criminals and ner do wells (to quote Joe Duffy) without importing more from outside and since our public services are being run down, just look at the garda article today in the Independent and it does give cause for concern at what is going on and how could escalate into something more dangerous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭Economics101




  • Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    It’s getting absolutely ridiculous how much these groups hold clout in a supposed democracy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    The catalyst for the Liverpool riot was migrant men hanging around schools hassling teenage girls for their phone numbers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭minimary


    Great letter to the ed from Michael McDowell about Georgian asylum seekers in response to an article by the head of the Irish refugee council




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 82,411 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Irish have nothing to be guilty over, we never had an empire


    Just took active part in a few empires?

    ”[excerpt]

    Ireland’s projected slave-trade companies

    Merchants in Ireland’s ports and towns were well aware of the importance of the slave trade and the slave colonies. The eighteenth-century economies of Cork, Limerick and Belfast expanded on the back of salted and pickled provisions specially designed to survive high temperatures. These were exported to the West Indies to feed slaves and planters, British, French, Spanish and Dutch. Products grown on slave plantations, sugar in the Caribbean and tobacco from the North American colonies, poured into eighteenth-century Ireland. Commercial interests throughout the island, and the parliament in Dublin, were vividly aware of how much wealth and revenue could be made from the imports. The fact that mercantile regulations, laid down in Westminster, meant that ‘plantation goods’ only reached Ireland via British ports was a source of growing indignation. In 1779 the Dublin parliament and the Volunteers successfully worked together to make Britain’s American difficulty Ireland’s opportunity, demanding that Westminster repeal mercantile regulations to allow ‘a free trade for Ireland’.

    The importance of enslaved Africans in furnishing these Irish gains is vividly illustrated in a commemorative print of 1780 entitled ‘Hibernia attended by her Brave Volunteers, exhibiting her commercial freedom’. At the centre of the picture a youthful Hibernia, barefoot and barebreasted, hair flowing in the breeze, lifts up both her arms to display a banner bearing the words FREE TRADE. Behind her two armed and uniformed figures stand on guard while merchant ships approach at full sail. In the foreground, flanked by tobacco barrels, are three figures, kneeling before Hibernia to offer gifts. On the left an Irish woman holds out cloths, presumably a reference to the right of Ireland to freely export her textile production. Beside her an American Indian offers an animal pelt. On the right a black slave, strong, sinewy and briefly draped, extends a neoclassical urn, its precious metal representing the untold wealth of Africa and America. These three ‘volunteers’ carrying riches to Hibernia recall paintings of the Magi and the Christ-child, that biblical scene in which, since the fifteenth century, one of the kings was invariably depicted as an African.

    “This newly won ‘free trade for Ireland’ was not restricted to Atlantic voyaging; it also allowed Irish ships to sail direct to West Africa—in other words, to enter the slave trade. By 1784 Limerick and Belfast had drawn up and published detailed plans for the launching of slave-trade companies. Both ports contained leading merchant families who had made fortunes in the Caribbean. Creaghs from Limerick can be found slave-trading down the century from Rhode Island, Nantes and St Eustatius, and plantation-owning on Barbados and Jamaica. In Limerick by mid-century John Roche (1688–1760) had emerged as the city’s foremost Catholic merchant, richer even than the Creaghs, supplying the West Indies with provisions, buying their sugar and rum, smuggling and privateering during wartime. A similar pattern was established by Thomas Greg and Waddell Cunningham in Belfast. Their activities in the Caribbean during the Seven Years’ War enabled them to improve port facilities at home and to establish sugar plantations in the Ceded Islands.”


    Hibernia [or Erin] is depicted holding up a banner with the words "Free Trade" above her head; she is surrounded by an African, an American Native Indian, and a woman - all of them offering gifts up to her. Two soldiers stand next to a tree watching the scene while ships sail on a stormy sea in the background behind her. Barrels of tobacco lie to her left, her harp and a cornucopia lie at her feet. The free trade banner she is carrying is a reference to the campaign that led to the British Act of 1800 which allowed Ireland to trade with British colonies in America, West Indies and Africa on equal terms with Great Britain. A banner is illustrated under this image with the words "Vincit Amor Patriae" ["Love of Country Conquers"].



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,518 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Not to downgrade what happened for a moment, but some fella in his 20s asked a 15 year old if she would 'be his girlfriend'. The idea that this would be enough to spark off anti-refugee protests and violence against the police is beyond ludicrous. There are probably a hundred such inappropriate conversations in Liverpool a day, not to mention people from ethnic minorities (including schoolgirls) being on the receiving end of racist comments daily.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Sounds terrible. But whats your point. Is it to excuse the extremist far right violence?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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