Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832113#Comment_121832113

So you think there's no far right types on boards or this thread?

dmakc

85% presenting without identification now, the money racket continues. Why do we bother with passports at all

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121831310#Comment_121831310

Unbelievabull!

Vast amounts of public money " thrown away" in the Covid response and unaccounted for?

Go on there now dragging old canards in here never mind its true only in your head!

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832368#Comment_121832368

My apologies GG - I momentarily forgot that the whole Covid thing became almost a crusade for some against the "sinners" who asked questions, called for balanced debate, and expressed concern about the nature, scale, cost and societal impact of the responses.

In any case, not one for debate here. After all it's a completely different situation with no similarity at all.... Oh, wait!

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832339#Comment_121832339

I am used to the hysteria and hyperbole by some posters like yourself in your defence of this issue and deflection. It's almost like white noise, BUT....

Your last paragraph is a disgrace and a disgusting reach. To suggest that ANYONE is "excited" about the attack (sexually or otherwise) on a small child is frankly beyond the pale.

You should apologise, withdraw it and frankly take a long look at yourself in my opinion.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832445#Comment_121832445

Ii would say you are the one on the crusade here.

I have never read so much from any one person, down playing far right activities, and talking of sending Ukrainians home to the.." Safe areas" . of their country, because you don't want to pay for them.

You have said that quite a few times I think.

We are all paying through our taxes.

We all paid for Covid too. In many ways.

And if you want to discuss that further I and others am happy to discuss it on the Covid thread, not here.

You might find a little more balanced debate elsewhere though.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832497#Comment_121832497

Actually the balanced debate is on threads like this with posters from presumably all sorts of backgrounds, beliefs and status calling out their concerns and questions - unless you want to suggest that it's all Russian bots and shadowy "far right" figures contributing? I can assure you that I am neither at least!

This is reflected again in the most recent polling.

Maybe the balanced debate you mean is one that just validates and agrees with your own opinion?

Anyone here is free to disagree with my posts. The difference is that I don't resort to throwing my toys out of the pram with posts like your one that I replied to above.

Enjoy your afternoon.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121831949#Comment_121831949

Sigh.. I do believe that what you say, you actually do believe yourself! And I don' believe that all posters here are far right.

There are moderate right wing people as well as moderate left.

So iwhy don't you call out everything those sxxx do and all the scummy posts that some of their supporters post here.

Because there are some far right supporters here. And you are naive if you think they aren't.

Like all the rumour and innuendo about arson and alleged attacks by refugees and cxxx links from X and FB, numerous nasty racist and trolling comnents that are deleted as soon as, but nonetheless people are posting here.

So its not a thing you say?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832048#Comment_121832048

All they want and need is a platform.

Prople who feel disenfranchised, and who most likely are, I agree, listen to them. Maybe not you but people do, like people join in here and thank some pretty awful stuff.

This is how far right gets a foothold and before you know it they are forcing their racist issues in elections.

I and others here are not saying that there aren't problems with the government policies, housing health etc but they are not as desperate as those far right actors would paint them.

Our politicians are all aware that people are not happy with how things are going.

We don't need to burn buildings, employ lynch mobs or leave the EU / Irexit, to sort these issues out.

We are not being overtaken.

We are squeezed because there are wars, Europe and beyond that are squeezing all countries now.

Yes those who are not really in need of refuge should be turned back, deported safe list countries. The problem is not only ours though many countries are having the exact same ptoblems.. How do you stop economic migrants from outside EU, who do you send them back to, where do you send them back to, traffickers, boats, documents disappearing.

None of these are new but they are difficult to deal with.

But thats why we elect people in government.

NoMoreDonegalTuesdays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832568#Comment_121832568

Of course you won't. That's what you lot do. Run away. Then stamp your foot.

You can't even bring yourself to say the far right trouble in Celbridge the other night was based on a flagrant LIE spread by the far right.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832490#Comment_121832490

I notice you didn't post about having any issue with aslyum seekers being falsely accused of committing sexual assault.

Also, I didn't suggest anyone is excited, I suggested they were almost excited. And I certainly won't be apologising or withdrawing by remarks on that one. The posts are there for all to see.

Goldengirl

@_Kaiser_ I replied to your post because you were lecturng and calling others gullible over and over..

And going on about Covid here. You were on that thread too but somehow everybody else is wrong and your opinion is the only right one? How is that reasonable.?

I am happy to leave it, but its not a win for either of us if you can't debate without allowing that others whom you may not agree with might have a valid opinion too. And not just talking about me here.

Edit. I see that I was replying to a post for somebody else now so deleted Apologise for confusion there :)

But my reply still stands. Generally.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832580#Comment_121832580

There are very few (if any) actually calling for closed borders, IrExit and certainly no-one has called for a lynch mob - let's not lose perspective here GG!

However, what IS being called for is effective controls, Governance and Accountability and Sustainability.

As I've said before, I appreciate absolutely that there are wars and victims and those in genuine need HOWEVER, these things are not our fault (we have invaded no-one, bombed no-one etc) and we as a small island nation with a small population and problems of our own can only do so much to help!

That's not "far right", "racist", "xenophobic" or any of the other terms that have been thrown out in response to this reality. It's simply the facts of the situation.

We also should not downplay the seriousness of our own problems as you are in danger of doing above. They are absolutely at or reaching desperate levels in the areas you mentioned and others. An entire generation will be unable to afford to buy a home. Many more are stuck where they are or fearful of the day the landlord tells them to go because they know finding somewhere else (suitable) is nearly impossible.

Healthcare has been a disaster for decades yes, but it's been made all the worse by the added pressure of the last few years. Now you will wait days for a GP visit and even private health insurance is no guarantee anymore.

The report in the last few days of adults reducing their own food intake to provide for their children gives the most stark lie to the notion that we are a wealthy prosperous natiion - maybe on paper/the balance sheets of MNCs we are, but if this is reality for ordinary citizens then something is badly, badly wrong!

As to what we can do... well electing the right people (rather than those we've always voted for, or who "fixed the road) would be a start. Enforcing the laws we have on immigration would be another. We don't have to close the borders to ensure that only legitimate migrants are accepted and isn't that what we ALL want? That those who need help or seek opportunity legitimately (within reason!) get the chance, and those who are here illegally under false pretenses or who represent a danger to our society are sent packing - or preferably don't get past the door in the first place!

All of these things are in our power to control, change and improve. We just need to make better choices!

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832675#Comment_121832675

I responded to one particular poster who's modus operandi seems to be "far right something-something", "gullible cowards-whatever" and so on.... not really worth or possible to engage with hence my subsequent post where I've said I'll be leaving them to it.

I have and will always continue to suggest that people look into the issues themselves and make their own minds up, rather than just taking what they read on Twitter, or RTE or the press at face value. I make no apologies for that. It's something that most people are encouraged to do as part of growing up and it should continue throughout their lives really.

On Covid... the aftermath has shown that the responses in Ireland were disproportionate to the level of actual risk involved and the (societal and economic) tolls that were paid in the process. We're not going to agree on that which is fine, but I've posted at length about it on the relevant threads so I'll leave it there.

I am not here to "win". I'm here to read views on what is an important topic and add my own. Where I disagree with someone/something I'll say so and why but as I said, everyone is free to agree or disagree as they will. Feel free to add me to ignore lists if they prefer, or just skip past the post. It makes no difference to me. As valuable as threads like this are, they are just one part of what should be a national debate - not just on the airways and in print, but among friends, colleagues and families (and I note that those debates are indeed happening as reflected in the polling and general anecdotal feedback).

Hope this helps clarify.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832707#Comment_121832707

No but it is only a matter of time.

The lies and ptopaganda spread on X, FB and Telegram is gsining and increasing all the time.

It is being posted here by some not all.

I will continue to call it racist xenophobic farcright as and when I see it and make no apology fir tgat.

If we let it go it eon't go away magically, it will spread.

Many of the country's issues predate our current immigration problems.

I think you know I have called out a lot of those myself on Boards so you cannot say now I don't see them.

I agree about our elections also.

I disagree fundamentally over Ukraine. It IS OUR PROBLEM and a world problem.

We may be small but we still have to take people in fkeeing from a war on the edge of EU. Do you expect Poland to take them all?

The greatest shame of our past was DeValera's stance on the 2nd World War Jewish refugees, imo.

I agree they werr being given too much in benefits but in the beginning, the war was thought to be over quickly. The new paynent is more realistic and fairer.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832816#Comment_121832816

Most of these issues may predate the current immigration crisis of the last 2 years, but surely you recognise that by adding 100,000 people in such a short timeframe with no advance preparations or even plan, it has exacerbated them to crises in themselves?

You also need to remember that we are and always have "done our part" - aside from the direct supports to the latest new arrivals and those who came before them for the last few decades, we also give away hundreds of millions of Euro each year (currently at 2 billion!) in foreign aid. That's on top of our domestic bill for these efforts.

So Ireland is already doing more than enough to help. How much more do you think/expect we can do? That's a serious/genuine question.

There were a lot of things wrong with Ireland in the past - however those mistakes shouldn't shackle us in how we deal with the problems of today. It's like the "well the Irish went everywhere!" argument that's often used. Aside from being a wildly inaccurate comparison, it has no bearing on how we tackle these issues now.

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832339#Comment_121832339

Just for context here☝️ is the full comment from cllr Walsh, he did not condone the act but took a wider view as to how the situation arrived at this point, an information vacuum was created by the government and of course in steps the extremes, it's easy to see.. Anyways for every comment from the likes of Walsh one can counter with another quote from a councillor calling for the killing of citizens who have took to rioting or calling anyone who isn't all-in with the present immigration policy far right .. It's all just circular, a useless exercise

Now for the record when I saw that tweet emenating from someone around Cellbridge, I like any sane person took it with a pinch of salt until it could be verified by two or three reliable sources and kept my mouth shut and didn't repeat it, the same as the majority of citizens on this island.. what you're at here is a typical tactic of mud slinging in a wide arc in the hope that some of it will stick... par for the course here

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832790#Comment_121832790

I don't agree with you on.. everything but don't think I would ignore you.

If I did I wouldn't be able to call you out on some of your over the top posts :)

I mostly see what you are saying and accept an opinion different in some respects but not all.

I too don't like being' fed ' in formation without knowing all the ins and outs as much as possible myself.

That is why I, of course disagree about Covid for the first couple of years until we had vaccines...

But that discussion is for another thread.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832249#Comment_121832249

True, but if you think about it, where are the Ukranians going to go after 90 days? There is scant accomodation for them to transfer in to, as well all know.

In the absence of modular homes, surely there is going to be an accommodation shortage.

How does the Naas camp actually work do we know?

If an asylum application is approved, the person is moved to fulltime accomodation, somewhere.

But if the application is rejected, what happens?

tom23

well if their application is rejected it will be like all the other applications that will be rejected, they will be allowed to stay. Very few rejected get sent back. I’m sure relevant NGO’s will help the applicant exhaust all avenues. Until we get this part of policy sorted we’ll get nowhere.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832707#Comment_121832707

Lots of fair points, but when you say we need to elect the right people, who are those people?

selectamatic

https://www.roscommonherald.ie/news/170-modular-homes-planned-in-three-roscommon-towns-to-house-700-ukrainian-refugees_arid-10848.html

Interesting to see the continuous wedging of refugees into small towns that already have so many is still in operation.

It's becoming an uncomfortable pattern that genuinely far right talking points such as "once a few are accepted into an area the flow is ever increasing" or words to that effect, are increasingly being bourne out by government policies.

Soft disingenuous talk of how the burden is being shared equally among all areas of Irish society is starting to wear very very thin.

Certain towns are having their entire demographic makeups up ended.

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834460#Comment_121834460

Where are the modular homes being built for our own 13.5k homeless people? What a joke.

NoMoreDonegalTuesdays

I see the "we're not racist" brigade still won't admit the far right lied through their stinking white supremacist teeth to create trouble in Celbridge the other night.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834460#Comment_121834460

It's a fundamental breach of trust with the Irish public. And the administration must be held to account for it. One way or another.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834586#Comment_121834586

Do you really think that was ever going to happen?

Think of what it could do to FFGs core voter property values if people just started living in affordable homes like that!

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121833333#Comment_121833333

'Sending people back' isn't straightforward.

If people have no documentation or their home country won't accept them, where do you propose sending them?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834757#Comment_121834757

Where they came from... and where they came from, can send them where they came from....

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834874#Comment_121834874

Most likely there's no obligation on that country to accept them.

And that's if you know where they came from, might easily be by sea or from NI.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832916#Comment_121832916

Since he didn't condone the act, that makes it better? What he said was very clear. The people who set the fire aren't to blame, they are simply looking out for the safety of their family. They are not at fault and they are not to blame. There's a really strong "well, she was wearing a mini shirt so...." vibe off the councillors comments.

Well done on that front. Plenty of posters on boards couldn't do the same. And plenty of people in lexlip couldn't do it either.