Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236690#Comment_120236690

They took the port expansions back with them too?

Let's not be ridiculous.

By 1784 Limerick and Belfast had drawn up and published detailed plans for the launching of slave-trade companies. Both ports contained leading merchant families who had made fortunes in the Caribbean. Creaghs from Limerick can be found slave-trading down the century from Rhode Island, Nantes and St Eustatius, and plantation-owning on Barbados and Jamaica. In Limerick by mid-century John Roche (1688–1760) had emerged as the city’s foremost Catholic merchant, richer even than the Creaghs, supplying the West Indies with provisions, buying their sugar and rum, smuggling and privateering during wartime. A similar pattern was established by Thomas Greg and Waddell Cunningham in Belfast. Their activities in the Caribbean during the Seven Years’ War enabled them to improve port facilities at home and to establish sugar plantations in the Ceded Islands.

Talk about the Ukranians and other modern refugees as you may but those arguing Ireland has no responsibilities, 'guilts,' and gained no benefits from empires or wars or slave trades etc. is mistaken and the record deserved correction here.

whomitconcerns

No it's not. It is time for a no waste of space and no scumbags policy.

How about for every person we take in, we send one of our wasters there and give the migrant a year to become a contributing member of society.

If they succeed, then great they stay and more power to them! If they fail, we send them back and get a suitably contrite former waste of space back here from their country where hopefully they have had an attitude shift!

Win win!

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236662#Comment_120236662

lol, so any nation that traded with the colonies using slaves was complicit is that it? Most of the nations on earth did or do trade with nations using some form of slavery, the idea that this means irish people are culpable or guilty is delusional

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236701#Comment_120236701

By that logic the Indians and Pakistans "benefitted" from British rule from all the infrastructure left behind, and the current citizens of those countries are all culpable and guilty of all the atrocities committed because the current nation benefitted from the infrastructure built during occupation

Again, delusional white guilt nonsense

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236731#Comment_120236731

No American forum would it be topical in: here Irish people are discussing their refugee policy in terms directly related to 'wars, empires' and 'white guilt'

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236732#Comment_120236732

lol, so any nation that traded with the colonies using slaves was complicit is that it? 

Literally, yes. Money talks.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236745#Comment_120236745

By that logic the Indians and Pakistans "benefitted" from British rule from all the infrastructure left behind, and the current citizens of those countries are all culpable and guilty of all the atrocities committed because the current nation benefitted from the infrastructure built during occupation

Again, literally yes.

India and Pakistan are both nuclear powers now.

To suggest this wasn't influenced by British rule or the might of its slave-trading empire is delusional nonsense. They are two prime examples of the benefits gained from war, imperialism, and slavery.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236759#Comment_120236759

so India and Pakistanis share the guilt for what the British did during the Empire? 🤣

And Native American tribes are all part guilty of the genocides and crimes committed against their own people, because today they benefit from the US' infrastructure

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236766#Comment_120236766

so India and Pakistanis share the guilt for what the British did during the Empire? 🤣

"white guilt" was the term another user or users used. I am greatly discussing the wealth and advantages these modern entities enjoy from the actions of their long dead granddads and other descendants who carried out these atrocious deeds.

(And there was certainly slavery activity in India, and still allegedly active in Pakistan today)

(And I hope nobody is even thinking of indenturing any refugees, just an afterthought)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236678#Comment_120236678

The slave trade is still ongoing and there are more people in slavery now than at any time in history.

What you’re referring to is the Atlantic slave trade, which is now abolished, but is the only one people like you even consider because it was white people complicit, although they were supplied by black Africans who sold them the slaves in the first place. Another detail you like to ignore. So black africans involved themselves and profited from the slave trade also. The Ottomans traded slaves far more and far longer so take issue with them while you’re at it.

Incidentally it was abolished by white people. So go away with your collective guilt tripe.

Wildly off topic anyway.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236795#Comment_120236795

but is the only one people like you even consider because it was white people complicit

Literally just pointed out that India was engaged in slavery up till the modern era and Pakistan still does it.

Wildly off topic anyway.

I saw people discussing "white guilt" and providing misinformation to the same - which I have addressed, but I'll leave it there lol

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236781#Comment_120236781

Irish people having any kind of guilt for colonial slavery perpetuated by the British empire has as much merit as Indians and Pakistanis being complicit or Native Americans being complicit for the genocides of their own tribes and forcing off their lands, according to your logic. If you cant see the ridiculousness of it, fine, everyone else in the thread does.

Anyways what this has to do with asylum seekers in Ireland I have no idea.

Irish people owe nothing to anyone abroad, and have no moral obligation to take asylum seekers.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236816#Comment_120236816

If native americans engaged in slavery then they deserve their just lot for that, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_Native_Americans_in_the_United_States#:~:text=The%20slave%20trade%20of%20Native,American%20slave%20trade%20by%201750.

The slave trade of Native Americans lasted until around 1730. It gave rise to a series of devastating wars among the tribes, including the Yamasee War. The Indian Wars of the early 18th century, combined with the increasing importation of African slaves, effectively ended the Native American slave trade by 1750.

Irish people owe nothing to anyone abroad, and have no moral obligation to take asylum seekers.

I universally disagree with this sentiment. No human can say they haven't owed something to anyone else. None of us our gods but we act as arrogantly at times. Am I being too egalitarian?

Floppybits

Jaysus I wasn't expecting this thread to take a trip down the Slave trade worn hole. :)

Anyways on topic I don't think any country should have a "zero refugee Policy". I think any country that can help another should but, and there is but, it can't be a free for all that this current fiasco has turned out to be. I believe that each country get enriched by immigration similar to the way generations of Irish have enriched other countries cultures but there does need to be checks and balances and people can't just turn at immigration in the airport and say I lost my docs and the immigration guys go that's grand, welcome to Ireland, off ya go now. I think every country has problems with their own home grown wasters/criminals that they don't want to be adding to the problem by importing more from other countries.

The way I view immigration is like being a house guest, if the owner of the house knows who you are, you get invited in, if they don't then you may not be let in, similarly if you are in the house and start smashing the place up you will be thrown out and told never to come back. That applies to every body who is a guest in another country including our own people, treat the host country and its people with respect they are giving you a chance, throw that back in their face then expect to be thrown out. Only fair.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236827#Comment_120236827

We owe nothing to anyone. We were colonized and brutalized by a regime that literally attempted to wipe out our existence. They did a damn good job by engineering a genocide that destroyed our population, language and culture. They, along with the pointy hatted prince man over in Rome flung our people to the four corners of the Earth. We are the people who stayed. We are the people that survived the genocide/famine. We are the people who flung out the thrash that tried to destroy us. We did all that. We did it on our own. We created a Republic the Irish citizen is the one finally sovereign. We, the sovereign people made this place, and anybody that thinks we are going to hand it over to any article who had no part in the struggle of making of it would do well to think again.

DebDynamite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236001#Comment_120236001

McDowell has been talking sense on this issue for a long time. Most of us could only dream these days for a Minister for Justice speaking so frank and truthfully about about the asylum system.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0518/63283-asylum/

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236607#Comment_120236607

Can you pass on the multiple links proving all the significant misinformation?

Misinformation is bad and I would be interested to read what was exposed as lies.

I haven't seen anything myself.

Honesty Policy

Our local school had a lovely new family (😬) move here with about 4 new pupils in tow in the last month. They were such a wonderful addition to the school (😬) and my child's class (😬). I can only imagine they were one of the international protection candidates because if this was America or Australia, they would have been turned on their heels at the airport.

Anyhoo, I heard today that they left for pastures new. Honestly this government should hang their heads in shame at their mismanagement of this country.

I have never heard of so many negative stories about one family in such a short space of time. What a joke.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237383#Comment_120237383

I'm not really sure its the governments that locals treated that family so badly

Galwayguy35

People coming here who are educated and able to fill the vacant positions in the health service and other areas are what is needed.

The reality is most of the young men arriving here have little or no skills and can barely speak a word of English so are no use to this country at all, not the kind of economic migrants we need.

Overheal

I've heard that claim a lot on the thread, about having no skills. Granted they haven't english skills. But no skills seems like a wide brush and I didn't see it challenged, is this just accepted as true or is there really data behind it

Galwayguy35

If they had skills they would go the legal route and apply for a visa which is what happens for the people we want to come to this country and who are a benefit to society.

The people we don't want to come here are weirdos like the guy who was leering in a hairdressers window a few days ago, the fella a few weeks ago who was threatening 2 women in the welfare office with sexual assault if they didn't give him money or the one who got his cock out waving it at passing women.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237578#Comment_120237578

Ireland admits thousands of skilled migrants annually via the work permit program. If they have the required skills and a suitable vacancy exists, they'll be welcomed here.

It's astonishing that this needs to be explained. This is truly remedial stuff.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237414#Comment_120237414

How is this comment furthering the debate in any way? What are you trying to achieve here?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236529#Comment_120236529

I'm suggesting that the idea that this unsavoury incident was enough to spark off riots and attacks on the police in Liverpool is beyond ludicrous. Every day on social media, we see footage of fights, arguments, name calling, inappropriate behaviour or language etc etc. That mob heading to attack a refugee centre and clash with riot police because some refugee fella had asked a 15 year old girl for her phone number was 100% rooted in racism and driven by far right elements (ironically, these far right types are often the biggest misogynists going).

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237678#Comment_120237678

Its a discussion forum.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Jesus this thread is great for keeping the mentally insane people busy typing on their keyboards instead of out terrorising normal people.

I must admit I only flick through it the odd time but tonight made me actually laugh out loud. One poster practically saying we were racists for not allowing pre teen girls give out phone numbers to adult males and another lunatic celebrating how great countries became after they were raped, pillaged, murdered and colonised by the Brits!

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237758#Comment_120237758

You didn't answer my question. How was that comment furthering the debate? What point were you trying to make?

Explain yourself.

Mullaghteelin

The moment I knew the far-left in the Western World had truly jumped the shark was when, nearly a decade ago, Swedish authorities were seemingly okay with men in their 20s or 30s being put into classrooms with young teens. Nothing to see here, totally normal.

Later, there were similar arguments in the UK, with NGOs claiming dental checks to help verify the age of migrants were somehow inhumane and racist. NGOs insisted that anyone who looked under 25 must be treated as a child until it can be proven otherwise.

This was charity pushed to the point of madness.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237838#Comment_120237838

I don't have to explain myself but thanks anyway

Ten of Swords

Mod - Can we get the thread back on topic. You can discuss the slave trade in another thread/forum

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237674#Comment_120237674

How is this comment furthering the debate in any way? What are you trying to achieve here?

I was simply asking had we any data that they actually have no skills. Apparently it's just a trope being propped up on the threadbare logic that they didn't apply for a skills based visa, so they all must be unskilled? This stereotype has been thrown around at the Ukrainians as well without substantiation.