Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084824#Comment_122084824

I think that unless conditions improve in the global south, the crossing will always be worthwhile for a lot of people.

And that's even to come here and live undocumented.

I think a big factor also is that children born here, while not automatically given citizenship, in practicality have to receive some sort of leave to remain and healthcare. It's a better life for the next generation.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084773#Comment_122084773

OK. So make conditions crap where exactly? In a facility or on the streets?

And just like that, illegal / unwanted migration which has been happening for thousands of years with people risking life and limb, will simply end. People who time and time again throughout all of history have run the risks of migration — from the days where it was OK to smack some foreign lad over the head with a battle axe and you would likely be applauded for it, right up to the present day where people will risk a watery grave in the Mediterranean — will be deterred by a smelly tent or sleeping rough.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084856#Comment_122084856

(Conditions in global south)That won’t happen in our lifetime and probably never if history has anything to say.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084839#Comment_122084839

How many ships are you willing to deploy? The tactic is to co-ordinate crossings so large groups come together.

You'd need an enormous fleet to have any chance of counteracting their methods.

And there are land routes too of course.

Water2626262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084439#Comment_122084439

He clearly intends on getting a job and renting a six bed house.

Joking aside in this messed up housing market how is it justified that half a million euro is spent on a house for a family halfway across the globe who probably never heard of Ireland until a few months ago. The world is a harsh place but we just can’t do this while we expect working people to borrow huge sums to live in other counties because they are priced 50km out of their locality.

It’s all well and good being charitable when people have housing, access to schools and GPs etc but not when the social contract is broken for people living and working all their lives here. Not fair on working immigrants either who have worked hard and live in slum conditions paying exorbitant rent to live 4 to a room.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084883#Comment_122084883

Luckily the EU has an enormous fleet. Also has radar, drones, state of the art maratime aeroplanes etc.

In any case turning folks around would be the major deterrent, rescue = Europe, making it = Europe. That should not be the case.

As for land borders, true, but stopping travel from safe countries again would nip this in the bud. Detention until documents/legals processed imo. In the case of a genuine asylum seeker, say someone from Gaza the detention would be minimal.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084885#Comment_122084885

Also the working legal immigrant never has a decent shot at planning to build their own home which is totally wrong due to council rules(most).

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084904#Comment_122084904

There's a massive fleet of NGO operated boats in the Med too operating a safe ferry service for the dinghies launched by the smugglers from the shores of North Africa and Turkey too..

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084858#Comment_122084858

No, this again all goes back to removing the pull factors. People will still chance it as the EU as a whole is still far far too soft on illegal/unwanted migration.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084904#Comment_122084904

And is it going to permanently deploy that fleet in the med? What's the cost?

People will still come via land borders. I don't know what you mean by 'stopping travel from safe countries'?

As I posted earlier, Poland has deployed a fence/wall, 10,000 soldiers and 2,500 cameras along it's 400km border with Belarus. People still come through regardless of being from a 'safe country' or not.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084936#Comment_122084936

As long as it takes for traffickers and chancers to get the message. This is a recent phenomenon, what changed? North Africa was destabilized by the US/French. Like others have said pull factors need to be nipped in the bud.

on the land border point - I I arrive in Poland I should not be allowed elsewhere, I should be detained and processed. If genuine asylum seeker then distribute through Europe. If not return to point of entry or origin, ideally I should not have been able to walk into Poland in the first place, but I agree with you it’s impossible to secure a land border the size. That being said we should be securing(in some way, does not have to be a hard border crossing) our own from the north, especially if 90% of our illegals migrants are coming via the north.

_Puma_

Videos of them making their way back to Dublin city centre already (there are no virgin media reporters around this time to give them a lift in)

Looks like their needs that our NGO benifactors are telling us that we are responsible for aren't been met.

Now the common sense explanation is if it isn't shelter and food that these people want, then it's something else that these people, who are willing to enter the state irregulary, want. Make you own conclusions looking at what happened in Mount Street over the past few days.

Poor Simon must be scratching his head. They told him it would work this time...

dmakc

Half them probably thought they were being bussed to their house that Rod promised, speaking of which, where is he? Haven't seen him since the referendum defeat.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084936#Comment_122084936

They come through in tiny numbers compared to here and are made feel unwelcome as they should.

gerogerigegege

!! everything I work for they get handed https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/90850-statement-regarding-mount-street-update/

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084986#Comment_122084986

As much as i dislike Roderic, and yes his tweets did not help. His department is doing what they are being asked to do ( you can consider this to be right or wrong). This entire thing lies squarely at feet of the justice department and Fine Gael who have held the position of justice minister for the last 13 years.

scottser

All the anti-immigrant voices on here are missing a trick.

Invite loads of immigrants here, and conscript them into a militia. They will form a meat-wave for when we invade the North and reclaim it. For the Unionists that remain, sure we can just do a Gaza on them - Israel has shown you can do whatever you like and nobody will dare stop you.

Then when we have the North we can lop the green and orange bits off the flag and have a lovely, pure and unadulterated white one..

/s/

tom23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084885#Comment_122084885

You must be a mindreader like me! Unless that man is a brain surgeon (which he could be) he won't be getting a 4 bedroom house without serious state assistance.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084774#Comment_122084774

I am absolutely not trying to say that this is always going to work — treaties and agreements between developed countries often fail to work properly (the Dublin protocols a fine example) — never mind those with the developing world. In fact I am saying the opposite — it will be a perpetual issue requiring re-think after re-think for the rest of our lives and the rest of human existence.

If the agreements fail, they fail, and we are back to the point of having to rely on deportations that we can't always ensure. But if the agreements make some difference, even for a while, until such times as you can re-think, then they are worthwhile. And you simply keep trying to co-operate with origin countries because this is more or less all you can as punishment and even aggression can only last so long and ultimately only encourage the factors that actually make people leave those countries.

There is no eternally sustainable solution to any of this however. That's something people will need to make peace with.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084974#Comment_122084974

I'm sure Aubrey and his Tiglin helpers will be there to welcome them back and give them new tents and sleeping bags. As much part of the problem as anything and need to be defunded. They can then do a whip around on the streets and see what ordinary people will give them and what support they really have.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085029#Comment_122085029

I mean another example I can think of is on the border with Egypt and Gaza… The Egyptian Govt. won't allow any refugees across the border, so if there closest geographically and culturally similar neighbours won't take them what chance have the EU of arranging deals to process and house migrants?

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084452#Comment_122084452

The problems with migration exist because we have an elite doo-gooder class that do not have to live with the consequences of their decisions.

Asylum problems can be solved very easily if the State actually had the stones to stand up to these people and actually take a much harder approach. The truth is the vast majority are bogus and ipas know they are bogus but the system has hamstrung it's own ability to deal with these applicants.

Quite frankly, anyone who has transited a safe country should need to prove a compelling reason for choosing Ireland. If they can't do that, then they stay out of the system. Without accommodation, work and welfare the numbers would reduce to a trickle.

gerogerigegege

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085036#Comment_122085036

Medical card? I've spent hundreds this month on healthcare.

You think they'll be working paying a mortgage in their lifetime in this country?

My arse.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084922#Comment_122084922

Fair enough but you don't seem to be willing to tell me what not being soft on it actually means and you don't seem to be willing to describe to me what conditions we should put asylum seekers in to make the thought of giving Ireland try so utterly unbearable that they wouldn't dream of it. People who feel they don't have much to lose by giving it a go aren't going to be deterred by having to tough it out or rough it out. Some time on the street in a relatively safe country like Ireland? Grand. A stint in a detention centre? OK. The threat of deportation? Back to square one but it was worth a go. Send me to Rwanda? Sound, it was a worth a try and I'll just get out of Rwanda at some point anyway.

I don't know how rough you'd have to make conditions to put these people off.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084817#Comment_122084817

Really? I think you're badly out of tune with public sentiment not just in Ireland but also in the UK and across the EU.

We are a sovereign nation and with a substantial majority 80%+ of the population that considers we have a migration problem and must do something about it.

You should be part of the solution, not defending an utterly dysfunctional system that is clearly not fit for purpose.

.Donegal.

The other night there was an Iranian gentleman on bbc news night who successfully claimed asylum in the UK last year. He said it cost £3000 just to cross the channel. The people coming from that route aren’t in destitute if they can afford that.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085060#Comment_122085060

I don't quite understand your point here. But even at that, the Gaza Egypt example is a complex one that has an ideological motivation behind it in addition to the practical motivation (ie, they don't want to be seen as facilitating what the Arab world sees as the attempted ethnic cleansing of Muslims from the region etc).

There are hundreds of thousands of refugees in Egypt by the way, which further reinforces the point above as to the particular ideological motivation regarding Gaza.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085124#Comment_122085124

What about the likes of Saudi Arabia, very wealthy, sit at the top tables of state. Do they help out in terms of sheltering migrants, even those of similar culture??

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084722#Comment_122084722

Our government is just offshoring our climate crap. Closed down Bogs then importing cheap peat from other countries.

The village/town I’m from has a farmer who sells fresh veg from his yard. Fresh from the field most mornings. Family have been farming here in probably the best growing soil in the country. He’s currently facing an €80k tax bill because the local council zoned his fields residential. We’ve one road in and out of the place, chock a block with cars because of the amount of houses built on farmland with zero infrastructure to go with it and more planning all over the place. Where is our food meant to come from if all the growing land is concreted over?? It’s a ticking time bomb. We need less people in Ireland, not more. We are a society first, and an economy second. The government has this arse to front.

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085076#Comment_122085076

If you listened to Brendan O'Carroll on Sunday, you might have been gob smacked like me.

It's harsh but given there is already 4,000 homemess kids, the new process could be assess everyone on application. If they fail that's it, no appeals.

That's an example of not being soft. Maybe it's too harsh but since you're asking the question, there's a potential answer. It feels like you're being deliberately obtuse, surely as an adult you could think of similar harsher approaches?