Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085124#Comment_122085124

Point is what I stated originally, that facilitating stable agreements on immigration with North African/Middle Eastern countries is going to be far from reliable and easy.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085080#Comment_122085080

I'm not 'out of tune' with anything, nor am I defending anything.

I am pointing out the realities that you just want to ignore.

You might want the country and its agents to break the laws, they won't be doing that.

You might want Ireland to be the first country to tear up the Geneva convention, they won't be doing that either.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083757#Comment_122083757

Ah but a year ago Helen, her colleagues and supporters/cronys were busy with their "international obligations" or looking for the "far right" and racists hiding under beds. They can't be looking at the immigration crisis while denying it and labeling anyone who says otherwise just to silence people.

This is typical of government, they are always slow to react and only when it becomes a crisis or if their seats are under threat will they make decisions. If they tackled these things head on at the start and nipped it in the bud it would be better for all. It is the same with the Mica issue, they knew about that more than a decade ago but did nothing and now peoples houses are crumbling and still they dither, where as if that was dealt with when first reported it would have saved a lot of heart ache and money.

Also it is not this government but most governments in this country all act this way.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085080#Comment_122085080

It is not much use if the leaders are not part of that 80% though is it ? It is not something that just appeared, it has been going on for years and getting worse but nothing changes. What is the actual aim of it all, because i can't possibly see any of this being a positive outcome.

pauly58

Posters have said I can't see what we can do, it's easy, start deporting them. A Government that can dump 60 odd billion of unsecured bondholders debt on us could sort that with no problem. Never mind emergency legislation to send them back to the UK, that's a non starter, pick a country, preferably where you originated but in any case you're not staying here.

Posters like Kaiser & myself were saying last year, this wasn't going to end well, absolutely no plan, the start of the mess was taking all of them from Ukraine, men as well. We should have decided exactly who we were going to take, not the other way round of where was safe.

McEntee reminds me of Mary Coughlan, not a clue but she had to take Daddy's seat.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085242#Comment_122085242

I'm quite happy to let others on this thread be a judge of your claim that your regular postings are not 'out of tune' with anything, nor defending anything.

Furze99

Can't see the encampment returning to Mount Street and environs this time. Jim O'Callaghan TD not a happy bunny.

But surely the Phoenix Park would be perfect, close to city and loads of space to establish a large community.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085070#Comment_122085070

It's amazing the amount of support Irexit gets on this thread, as well as admiration for the Tories.

Does that not indicate you guys are in something of an echo chamber?

Archduke Franz Ferdinand

Brian Dobson talking shite on rte now, asking were the people on mount street “given a choice” about where they were going or if they wanted to stay where they are. I don’t know why when government representatives come on air try to answer or defend these type of questions. Maybe rte would like to take them in…?!?!

Archduke Franz Ferdinand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085346#Comment_122085346

why should we turn a beautiful park and green space used and enjoyed by many into a no go **** hole of a refugee camp?

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085346#Comment_122085346

Nah, Herbert Park or the Grounds of RTE would be much closer

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084974#Comment_122084974

so from a tent city to a tent countryside just like before St Patrick’s Day in March - whilst the Gardai will prevent new tents in mount st, there’s a lot more places around Dublin to pitch a tent - and anyway IF more people come in from the UK, where are they going to go?
It’s pass the parcel stuff at this stage

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085405#Comment_122085405

What about the politicians offer a spare bedroom at their home for a few months ?

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085379#Comment_122085379

RTE are in on it and were likely told to ask that question as it makes the government stance seem tough on asylum seekers.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085201#Comment_122085201

Well, if you think I'm being obtuse, I can tell you now that I have no problem with your proposal to have no appeals — obviously so long as the initial process is fair. But the reason I don't oppose it is because really I don't think it actually makes much difference aside from an administrative saving maybe. That's because whether they are rejected at first stage or an appeal stage, it's how you actually deal with the rejected person which is the troublesome point.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085076#Comment_122085076

I'll revisit my reply to you on this topic from a previous post. The same questions are being asked different ways. I do not mean make conditions physically terrible, I mean we need to have a much more robust approach to what is for the most part economic migration disguised as seeking asylum. If people know they have little chance of not being returned home they will stop coming.

At the very least you have to agree that the status quo cannot continue. You ask me what not being soft actually is? I would consider almost anything an improvement on our current policy/system.

Extract from previous post (see post #17638 for context):

As we currently have to process asylum seekers in the country and we are not a charity for everyone looking a better life:

• Abolish the right to remain. If the courts, IPO/IPAT have decided someone cannot stay, the justice minister should not be able to overrule this.
• Enforce deportations out of the EU, no self deportations. ( everyone is fingerprinted (i know they are already)- a failure in any EU country should prevent an application in another - no point in allowing failed applicants to bounce around the EU. If home countries refuse, set above.)
• Remove the right to work - the asylum system should not be seen as an alternative to the visa system.
• Quicker decisions and remove the ability to tie the court up for years with appeals etc.
• Limit access to welfare/Healthcare/education/housing etc.
• Limit access to citizenship.
• Committing of any crime is a bar to application and automatic deportation.
• Anyone who comes in via NI is an automatic rejection/deportation.
• Anyone arriving without documentation is an automatic rejection/deportation.
• Limit the number of applications per year

And I would add to this all claim decisions should have to be attended in person. If denied, detained. No slinking off into the gig economy.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085209#Comment_122085209

And I agree with you entirely. But there is no reliable and easy solution and this is why I would like to see the national conversation on this pushed to a higher and healthier level. Because from that you might get the rise of future political figures who have better rounded and less ideologically entrenched vision for the future of migration policy.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085379#Comment_122085379

They should have been sent to Montrose, plenty of space out there to set up a camp site and then they could use the RTE canteen and other facilities there are well.

pc7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085434#Comment_122085434

Many RTE shows have been trolling over the last year, soft interviews with AS on the streets etc

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085481#Comment_122085481

did rte run anything on this:

https://www.thesun.ie/news/12868916/man-loses-eye-brutally-stabbed-slept-tents-dublin/

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085464#Comment_122085464

Whatever the solution is, it must be centred on capacity.

Nobody is talking about that.

People talk about faster processing times, yet faster processing times of succesful applicants leads to GREATER demand on housing and infrastructure, not less.

Capacity is the question nobody will answer.

How much accom and services do we have available to IPAs each year and how many will arrive.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085379#Comment_122085379

Didn't he get the government memo? Irish people have no say where they go, neither do the immigrants.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085456#Comment_122085456

That's all fine — I mean, I don't necessarily agree with all of that — but there is one overarching issue with all of it: it all relies on an effective, reliable system of deportation.

If you keep asylum seekers out of work, OK, but if you can't deport them then they become an economic burden that is not allowed to work. If you abolish the right to remain, grand, but if you can't deport them it effectively ends up being the same thing. Et cetera et cetera.

So everything you say there, in order for any of it to be a deterrent, you need the deportation system to be reliable and effective — otherwise none of those deterrents are really deterrents at all. So that's the challenge.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085513#Comment_122085513

well ideally once processed the bogus would be ejected from the country thus solving the capacity.

You are right though we should be capping on the genuine AS also.

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085444#Comment_122085444

That's not my proposal. It's a potentially less soft approach that you were requesting.

In terms of where we would go with such an option. It'd probably be self deport but it would mean the state would not have to provide accommodation which would enable them to focus more on the homeless children.

I don't know the best option. The are a multitude of options going softer and harder. We could skip the current process and go for a soft approach so that everyone arriving claiming asylum is granted asylum. I don't know the best approach but the current homeless figures https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/291514/ad110785-912f-4e64-a83b-f82262017212.pdf#page=null and especially those of children seem very wrong to me.

Also, and I feel bad for saying this but I'd rather the entire East coast wasn't concreted over too.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085533#Comment_122085533

without knowing how many succesful applicants there are, even processing and deporting 100% of bogus applicants in 60 seconds does not resolve the accomodation needs of the succesful applicants.

Thats why capacity is key.

We expect around 25k IPAs this year.

Assume 50% are succesful. We need to accomodate 12,500 IPAs through 2024.

Approx 1,000 people a month require accomodation and infrastructuee supports.

If the govt cannot provide a rolling stock of 1,000 newly available beds each month across 2024, we have breached capacity and people are on the streets.

The 12,500 unsuccesful applicants could be deported instantly. It would not matter.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085564#Comment_122085564

The vast majority would be rejected though. Likely. Leaving free space for the few genuine ones

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085464#Comment_122085464

The more than 70 years old Geneva conventions are not fit for purpose and need a complete overhaul. The sentiments which they’re based on may have had merit post World War II but the worldwide population has skyrocketed since.
Politicians hide behind “international obligations” but you never hear them say that they’re lobbying for changes or bringing up the subject on a UN level.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085525#Comment_122085525

Correct - but not being able to deport failed applicants cannot be an option either. How we deal with countries refusing to take back their people should be straight forward. Offer them the carrot or the stick. In whatever form that might have to take. The EU approach to this is far too soft - removing access to visas etc isn't really going to do much.