Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089063#Comment_122089063

okay so since you don’t read the full post I’m going to pull back from replying further - not much point.

appreciate your overall point, but think it’s been blown out of proportion to an extent.

I haven’t read your last post there either.

bloopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089128#Comment_122089128

Yea, more like that.

Alternatively could have said 'all we had to deal with'.

Basically, there is so much frustration and anger with this situation, both here and in Europe, that the ones who rise from this will make Trump and Wilders look like fukin Karl Marx.

dmakc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089106#Comment_122089106

A 53-year-old from South Africa who missed yesterday’s buses as he went to take a shower said he walked the streets throughout the night, as he did not have a tent or sleeping bag.

“I went to bathe and when I came back, there was nobody here,” he said adding: “I really need accommodation, look at my age.”

Must have been a long shower. "I'm 53 give me accommodation" doesn't cut it either I'm afraid.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088872#Comment_122088872

No constitutional need, but there is a political opportunity there for the government to grasp. Throw the issue to the people. If they have sense, they should strongly consider this. As it is, they're for a hiding.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088942#Comment_122088942

Cowardly canvassers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088971#Comment_122088971

I agree, the large majority of Irish people are generous but there comes a tipping point when generosity is dried up and sympathy lost.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089024#Comment_122089024

You can't post anecdote here, it says it on page 1. It's possible to comment on policy or events but for some weird reason if you give direct evidence of how the issue affects you or yours, then it can be deleted.

willyvanilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089092#Comment_122089092

I can certainly understand people just wanting to up and leave given the current state of the place, and the logical future state of the place.

But, as i alluded to above, people better recognise that kind of reaction is based on non-confrontational decency. "Better to leave than cause a scene, better to bottle it up and move away".

That attitude simply cannot last.

It's only a matter of time until the predictable "why should I leave my own country while others keep arrivinh to be looked after?" comes roaring to the fore in very much confrontational fashion.

Again, the situation is not difficult to understand, and neither are the ultimate consequences of an entirely inhospitable country to immigrants.

We are currently in the transitional phase of normal society (think housing and healthcare and educational provision etc) where there are still a sizeable cohort that are okay, so to speak. But that cohort will shrink and shrink as resource shrinks.

Who needs a map to where this leads? Nobody, that's who.

The politicians and governance have failed and into the void steps individual agency at micro level.

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089138#Comment_122089138

@thomas 123 Lets not fall out :D .. I did read your full post. Forums are great, they have written text messages as we have been doing, but we all may interpret whats written differently from what the author wrote. I understand that. And i also would be in general the type of person who agrees to disagree but still would gladly go for a few pints after a heated debate, conversation :D

You asked for links, I did provide, but also said a simple google search is worth a look if interested. Not trying to change your mind BTW. What I write is my opinion, and I will always stand by that everyone is entitled to there own opinion and I would hope to not fall out with others who would have different opinions

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088211#Comment_122088211

Why stop there? Why not billet them with old people. What could go wrong?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089092#Comment_122089092

There's something very telling too that when people on these threads talk about young Irish people leaving the solution is always to say (rightly) that they need better jobs and housing, never a mention of hard borders or deterrents?

dalyboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089092#Comment_122089092

Sorry but this post of yours has me mystified. The glaring difference in my (and my kids) emigration is that (1) it was forced onto us by our own governments cronyism and creating a housing market which will be unattainable to my children’s generation (2) I will (and my kids) be able to PAY OUR OWN way in our country of destiny. Purchase a property(s) and contribute to the our newly adopted land via our jobs or businesses.

You state that Ireland is a “safe” country ! My question to you is how secure are you in the longevity of this claim when it’s clear that the government are intent on creating a cultural shift in Ireland . How safe will this country be in 5 years ? , 10 years ? Do we know ? Socially the fabric of Ireland has already cracked imho.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089158#Comment_122089158

Current state of the place?

Seriously people have very short memories.

I grew up in the 70s and 80s when the economy was awful, mass unemployment, no jobs or prospects, massive brain drain as Irish workers were forced to emigrate, as economic migrants.

Country was oppressed by the catholic church, no contraception, abortion, or even sex ed in schools. Homosexuality was illegal, divorce was illegal. Church ran the government. Food here was awful too.

Now we live in a country that has a thriving economy, people leaving college have a real prospect of well paid job and career in Ireland, successful economy has made country more modern and international and global, improved liberal rights, so much so that when we had a gay Taoiseach elected, it just simply wasn't an issue.

Of course there are problems, the country is not perfect. Housing is the biggest one, and government policy, nothing else has created that problem.

It's not foreigners or immigrants, it's poor land policy and planing systems allowing NIMBYS to block everything for years in court that has led to lack of houses as well as the government stopping the building of houses in the 80s.

Either way the country is in a much better state than it has ever been and the idea that it has never been worse and saying it's all the fault of immigrants is dangerous and needs to stop.

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088621#Comment_122088621

Ah yes, the old Micheal Martin trick.

Glenomra

Do I understand the current situation correctly when I say that from now on we will have 2 separate government departments competing with each other to acquire land for accommodation purposes, the department of housing and the department of integration. 2 departments employing seperate estate agents, valuers and engineers, both competing with each other on specific sites spending taxpayer's money. I have a neighbour who buy and sells cattle. I hope to meet him tomorrow for a social gathering. I must suggest that from now on he should get his wife to also attend the marts and compete against him in the purchase of animals. That is now the logical Irish way of doing business. I will stand well out of earshot for his reply. Have we gone officially insane as a country!!!!

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089196#Comment_122089196

Not sure how “rightly” this is.

25-35 years ago a man could have a job in a factory, and a woman could raise 3-6 kids at home - afford a mortgage, a car and other essentials. Reverse the sexes if you feel like it, fact is 2 people could survive comfortably with one person working.

Today we have professional couples on 100k combined + unable to get mortgages because they are unable to save because they are paying out rent in the thousands, those that wanted to sensibly have kids young then pay another mortgage on childcare.

The state should impose “hard borders” on offshore property investment funds firstly and then hard borders on itself from interfering with private housing supply to solve the social housing issues it has and now to solve the migration issues…

Also (Obviously) the economy won’t work with everyone doing “better jobs”.

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089257#Comment_122089257

And that Irony @murpho999 .. During the 80s, mass migration of young Irish from Ireland to the US, UK and Aus etc. But that was probably different :D

Tefral

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089273#Comment_122089273

They werent going expecting handouts and houses…. They were going to live with relatives to get on their feet and work.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089067#Comment_122089067

A big concern there would be impact to residential rental prices.

If the state is paying rent for asylum seekers to landlords at an increased scale, there will likley be a rent price inflation effect for everyone else, as well as a further shortage of private accomodation.

What happened to the state owned accomodation plan that leaves the private market alone?

Wasn't that the plan? Even through the use of empty offices/tented accomodation.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089257#Comment_122089257

Its funny the majority or people bemoaning the state of the country because it is now, so much better, that other nationalities actually want to live here, that those bemoaners are now going to become immigrants in different countries. .

Viscount Aggro

Where is Roderic O'Gorman?

No comments from him in last few days.

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089287#Comment_122089287

But I do wonder this .. how do we know these current migrants are expecting handouts and houses? How do we know these current migrants do not want to get on their feet and work? Has anyone asked them? Or is it assumed everyone who comes here are free loaders ( I have no doubt some are, but many others are probably not )

Plus their are still calls across US political system to make the UNDOCUMENTED IRISH legal, who are still in US - illegally

BTW, as far as I am aware, those people here seeking asylum have to be put up in some way and treated humanely via our membership of the EU and the fact we are signed up to various international accords re migrants

dmakc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089296#Comment_122089296

Anything to be said for the our taxes now competing against ourselves in the search for housing, suvigirl? Will immigrants now be detrimentally affecting our housing supply?

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089102#Comment_122089102

This is not true. A considerable minority, usually around 1/4 of asylum seekers do indeed turn out to be illegal immigrants with no valid claim to asylum.

Now looking at the UK situation, there's a reasonable chance those coming across the border are the ones with most to fear of being sent to Rwanda and therefore potentially a higher proportion of illegal immigrants. Hopefully we get some stats on this.

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088039#Comment_122088039

In a world where the Ukraine war has not happened it might not be such an issue. I guess AS are the most obvious cohort to punch down on but that in itself is exacerbated by the allegedly high proportion of non genuine asylum seekers.

We're now in a position where we have one of the largest born foreign population in the EU but seem unable to support our third level students and couples looking to get married/ have kids with accommodation. It seems the thought of people skipping ahead while Irish citizens are disenfranchised is driving people round the bend.

I spoke with an FF candidate today. I just asked him what he thought and his answer was the influx needs to stop and more along that line. He got quite animated. That's striking coming from FF.

We probably need a year or two off from this carry on so that people can settle down and integrate and tempers come down. Not sure what's going to happen but a bit of guidance from government about what to expect might help. They probably need to put in limits, e.g. 20k asylum applicants per year and rest turned away.

I think a big issue is the things that haven't happened, i.e. the African population is booming, how would we cope if 1 million turned up tomorrow looking for asylum. Having a plan around such potential issues would be helpful but up until recently the government has refused to address any and all concerns. I think they should address all concerns, (no matter how outlandish) and give a roadmap for 10 years so people know what to expect. That might calm things down especially if they stick to their plan and build trust.

It's actually pretty sad, it feels a bit like we've been lurching from one crisis to another since 2008. While understandable in some places to a degree and in the circumstances, seeing Irish people uniting against immigration/ asylum seekers is awful.

Tefral

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089308#Comment_122089308

Why dont they apply through the Visa System then before coming here? There is loads of job requirements on there for which you can have a Visa to work.

There is a huge (and I mean Huge) deficit of workers in the Construction Industry. A General Operative can get 17e/hr without any qualifications…

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089314#Comment_122089314

Our Taxes have been competing against us for years, if you weren't aware that councils have been buying private houses for years, you must have been asleep! Missed out on a.house myself last year because the council bought it (well over the odds too)

its another abuse of the housing market by government. time to start building massive housing projects, should have been started 14 years ago.

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089326#Comment_122089326

Could we not say the same about the Undocumented irish in US at the moment who are there illegally for decades in some cases? yet calls from here to make them legal.

I agree re deficit of workers in the Construction Industry etc. So those here at the mo, fast tracked through the system, either deported or left here in space of months THEN offer those still here legally jobs to plug the deficit of workers in the Construction Industry perhaps.

This is the disastor we fell into last few decades with this direct provision system.

Tefral

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089337#Comment_122089337

In America, they wont give you a home and a medical card and Social Welfare if you are not contributing to the state, here they do….

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089257#Comment_122089257

When did you buy your house? How many times your salary was it? Was it easy or difficult to buy?

Maybe you should try putting yourself in the shoes of todays young generation, rather than pontificating about how easy life is these days?

Was there 12,000 homeless in the 80s by the way?

dmakc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089336#Comment_122089336

In light of this morning's tender, would you agree these IPA immigrants are now detrimentally affecting our housing supply?

willyvanilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089257#Comment_122089257

I'm not going to blame you for being wildly out of touch, but you are.

Its probably a wonderland now for those who got through the hard times of the 70's and 80's, quadruply so if you more than likely bought housing and have watched it increase in price to the stratosphere. Congratulations.

As I said above there is still a sizeable cohort who are "okay" in Ireland. But it's all transitional, we are very much moving rapidly into a broken society and the cohort of the comfortable will inevitably shrink, and the cohort of the uncomfortable will grow.

I'm not going to go into some ridiculous back and forth about hypothetical situations, but it's safe say that childcare is becoming increasingly inaccessible, housing is all but non existent for many and growing and so.

Thats what matters most to anyone, and you better believe that if you were without a home right now and suddenly on the receiving end of trying to compete to get anything, absolutely anything, at eye watering prices that essentially negates "gainful" employment, youdbe singing a different tune.

But you aren't, so you're not, and your opinion on how good people have it is entirely irrelevant if not agitating in its misplacement.

You overcame whatever challenges you faced, now get out of the way for those who have statistically worse challenges now. Thanks.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089321#Comment_122089321

Good post and echos my point about capacity.

Thats really the only thing that matters.

What is the expected inflow and what housing stock do we have today, and in the piepline, to accomodate that inflow.

If the inflow is greater than capacity then people are living on the streets. Which nobody wants to see.

The govt should be producing 2 to 3 year plans that model the above.