Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

flancmange

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112415#Comment_122112415

The community engagement team, like what is any of that even about?

We're going to unceremoniously dump some large amount of people in your small town that doesn't have infrastructure. Is that okay, now that we've communicated that to you?

No, it doesn't make any difference in the slightest.

Might as well be called the Shooting You In The Face Explanation Unit.

Id hazard a guess thats why all that has shrivelled up and blown away in the wind.

Blind As A Bat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112401#Comment_122112401

Have I ever met any of them? I have indeed - spent twenty years teaching in DEIS primary schools so among the parents, I met the full gamut ranging from the young ones destroyed by heroin, the older ones begging on the Ha'penny Bridge, the ones coming out of Mountjoy and getting their Junior Infant kid to do lookout while they nicked bikes… the list goes on. The ones who do the nicking are more than capable of wielding a broom or a mop.

The terrible thing is that when the kids first come to school they're a great little bunch, some are very bright and there is a lot of potential there but so many end up going the way of the parents. We've never really dealt with that issue effectively. But that's another story for another thread. Just want to add that many inner city families are solid as a rock and give their kids a great foundation amid challenging circumstances and hats off to the mothers and grandmothers. Some amazing women there.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112468#Comment_122112468

Where did I say the locals were racist for wanting to use Baggot St. Hospital exactly?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111711#Comment_122111711

Again conflating an ENCAMPMENT with regular hygienic and safe and dry accommodation .

For what reason ? think you know the difference kaiser .

But you go and eat your popcorn ...

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111833#Comment_122111833

Yeah pity he didn't put as much effort into his legislation when he was MoJ .

Maybe he wouldn't have got the boot !

flancmange

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112468#Comment_122112468

Let me tell you, converting large tracts of infrastructure to house migrants is not going to wash in this environment.

The optics of going to lengths never gone to before to house non irish people, while their own housing crisis is treated with the urgency of a snail, just looks terrible.

Were they to take that hospital, put money into to it and rapidly turn it around into acceptable, temporary, cheap but liveable accommodation exclusively for irish citizens, some form of basic social housing that could be used for some years so as the people ould actually save some money while working to escape the trap, now you'd be talking good optics.

But doing the opposite is oooooooooWEEEEEEEEE, that's some fire stoking stuff right there.

Somebody better get a grip on this spiralling situation like yesterday.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112466#Comment_122112466

Nice to know I've a Boards.ie stalker...…

3 elections. 2011, 2016 & 2020. 1st preference to local FG candidate each time.

Not sure who I'll vote for next time. Most likely whoever I perceive to be the best of a bad lot. FG guy I voted for in the past is not running in next general election. Politics is very fractured now in Ireland. Don't think the average Joe/Jane are well represented. But then, I won't be running for election either so I'll have to choose my poison.

Viscount Aggro

Iwana besick is being simplistic here. The Baggot street hospital is not suitable for housing. It's a cheap shot, cycling down on her cargo bike, to get photographed beside the tents.

iamwhoiam

where was Ivana Bacik all the years when homeless men and women were in tents along the canal ? I saw them there at Portobello bridge myself and no one gave a toss then

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112551#Comment_122112551

She wasn't going to be upstaged by Aodhán Ó Ríordáin walking through the tents at Mount Street…

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112487#Comment_122112487

right well you were just saying the permanently unemployed could be doing some of the low level jobs we have been needing immigrants to do, but you must know yourself that these people are incapable of holding down a job, anyway we're going off course here.

flancmange

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112559#Comment_122112559

The optics are terrible. Creating accommodation for non-irish people, while doing sweet fukk all for irish people in the worst housing crisis ever known is just beyond words.

Not only are the optics terrible, the practicality is even worse. Were they to repurpose yet another large piece of infrastructure, it will be filled overnight, and the next morning another migrant camp will appear. The epitome of fruitless.

Looks terrible, is terrible.

riddles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112384#Comment_122112384

In 1991 there were five workers for every pensioner in Ireland. That ratio is expected to decline to 2.3 workers for every pensioner by 2051. What's the result of that? The Tax Strategy Group has estimated a shortfall in the Social Insurance Fund of €2.3bn in 2030, €13bn by 2050 and up to €21bn by 2070.

the above estimates don’t factor in any declines in things like high paying Tech jobs or a potential short term bounce in corporation tax.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112595#Comment_122112595

do they not have lots of irish people in hotels etc.? is that not better than refurbished offices etc.?

MrMusician18

The baggot street hospital is a complete red herring. It is completely derelict inside and would take years to make habitable. Suggesting it is easy because you can be safe in the knowledge that it will never be used.

ooter

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/coveney-vows-to-end-hotel-use-for-homeless-by-july/35536062.html

flancmange

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112632#Comment_122112632

Not remotely sufficient.

Taking the likes of that hospital, if they have to spend double and take twice as long to make it habitable instead of survivable and exclusively marked for irish citizens, so be it, thats an effort and looks better than nothing and addresses the housing crisis for irish people.

Doing a half arsed job to house a never ending supply of migrants looks dreadful.

Not to mention that doing the worst option also makes the situation even more bleak for irish people stuck in hotels, stuck at home, stuck in ungainful employment etc, as its another stockpiling of eventually yet more people as competition for space, which pushes prices higher on scarcity, and you've just lost another building for nothing, because the tents will never stop accumulating anyway.

Utterly out of control, and that's why if I was making a bet on outcomes, I fail to see how it doesn't result in violence.

Damn.

_Puma_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112631#Comment_122112631

Doesent factor in the ratio of unemployment of our new welfare tourists either.

Another example is the HSE budget modelling.

All our state economic modelling is now garbage in garbage out. It was based on a society that is not the reality anymore.

You can't have an open border welfare state. The Swedes and the the UK are finding out the hard way but well on the way to rectifying it. We are going straight off the cliff.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112688#Comment_122112688

well you're saying they're doing zilch for irish people, but if i was experiencing hard times and they put me in a hotel, i'd be pretty happy with that as i've had to live in some real sh*tholes over the years.

also i'm not sure they're going to make places exclusive for irish citizens, not really fair on non irish who have lived here for years paying taxes, those people are entitled to go on social housing lists too and you'll find plenty of foreign people on social housing lists as they do many of the low paid jobs these days.

flancmange

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112717#Comment_122112717

Just isn't going to wash.

Nobody is going to stay in a hotel for the rest of their life happy as Larry. Rather, they're likely to lose their shyt after some years.

And I don't doubt that the dopes in government are ever going to make irish exclusive accommodation, despite the ever worsening conditions. You're right.

And that, again, is precisely why I expect violence and disorder.

You cannot have a void between "this must happen" and "can't do anything" and expect rosey outcomes.

We'll be debating next year about the even bigger increase in racial crime, as seen in headlines today, even less housing availability and affordability, even bigger marches, more outbursts, bigger migrant camps and goddamn we all know the list by now.

I know exactly what you're saying, and I believe it too. The difference is that I see that as the exact reason for violent discord.

The equivalent of turning up to one of those marches with a megaphone and telling them, hey, that's just capitalism bro. You're expecting them to put their placards down and their anger will subside and theyll go home and never think about it again.

Goddamn it ain't going to work out that way.

ooter

They just said on drive time that one of the recent arrivals they spoke to said they came in from Cherbourg in a container.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112750#Comment_122112750

capitalism is the main reason we have different nations living and working here now, i thought the patriots are only against asylum seekers?

you just seem hellbent on their being violence and disorder, good luck with that, mr obvious re-reg

flancmange

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112777#Comment_122112777

Look, you might not like the truth of the matter, but surely you see what's coming. It has nothing to do with me, or you, and it's nothing personal nor is it predicated on opinion.

Ask yourself this, in a years time, do you expect,

Smaller marches or bigger?

Fewer migrant camps or more?

Less racial violence or more?

More, cheaper housing, or less, dearer housing?

And so forth.

The reality of the situation is clear and this is going to play out in the most likely manner, not the most desirable manner.

That's all I have to say really, spelling out what everyone else surely must acknowledge to some extent already.

You say nothing can be done, I say that's the exact problem. Nothing to argue about.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112468#Comment_122112468

"You understand that residents from Ballsbridge are generally from a higher socio-economic group, and would likely include senior civil servants and Lawyers? And that they don't always want to widely publicise legal actions for fear of being labelled "Far right" so the comprehensive details you are looking for aren't easily available?"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111422#Comment_122111422

Where did I say YOU SAID ?

But you are certainly implying less altruistic motives in the above .

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112551#Comment_122112551

It is more suitable than many other places mooted.

Just because you don't like Ivana Bacik does not make what you say true .

flancmange

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112836#Comment_122112836

Supposing it was converted and then filled in no short order.

We all know there'll be another encampment starting the next day, and growing every next day.

What then?

Goldengirl

@iamwhoiam maybe not .But she has and so have others been suggesting this for a while .

On the subject of homelessness I agree that more attention is now being given to the subject than ever was over the last decade when do many were crying out for decent accommodation

However there are people sleeping rough who for various reasons refuse a bed in a hostel for example.

It would have been nice if the government had done more to give proper accommodation to these people ,like the modular housing being built for asylum seekers .

ShamNNspace

There are new notices up in the ipa office offering an increased payment to anyone moving their tent from the city centre... This is unbelievable on the hoof policy making... Clownland, what a f****ng mess

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112853#Comment_122112853

it would be nice, but the people on the streets were counted at 91 people in dublin a couple of years ago, before this asylum seeker mess. those people would require far more help than just a roof over their heads, basically constant supervision and help, as they are addicts and have severe mental health problems. we are a long way off providing that to anyone, refugees present or not.