Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140522#Comment_122140522

Well, unfortunately I am not the Minister for Justice with access to thousands of staff and advisors so not my job to come up with specific policies.

The tent encampments are a necessary evil because if every AS was provided a warm and secure apartment or house we would be innundated with thousands more within weeks from all parts of Europe.

All would agree that it is inhumane to spend years deliberating on these Asylum applications so speeding that up should be the priority.

A large military style camp in the countryside would be a cheap and suitable accomodation that would reduce conflict with local communities as very few want to live next to AS. This would also help with keeping track of who is where within the country.

Lastly, once Asylum is rejected, we need to fight back against the NGO's and the countries from where the AS leave from to ensure that they can be deported.

Any country that refuses to accept their own citizens back should be denied any aid or development funding from the EU.

I think that will work wonders for getting deportations done. We will need to be deporting 10s of thousands p.a for a while until the word gets out that Ireland is not a soft touch any longer.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140245#Comment_122140245

See post #21030 above. As of 10th May Wicklow Co Co have ordered full demolition of the illegal building works at Kippure Estate. It is a huge scandal. Likely the developers will appeal?

A victory for the moment for the ordinary citizens, democracy and local Independent county councillors. Note the party councillors sat on their hands.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140538#Comment_122140538

You might want to find some references to back up those claims. From what I can see only about 20% were deported or returned to country of origin.

https://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/operation-sovereign-borders-offshore-detention-statistics/2/

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140538#Comment_122140538

Nor did it stop 'hundreds of thousands'. Australia never received very many arrivals by boat and all the evidence points to numbers actually being lowered by the turn back policy. Number of arrivals actually increased after offshore detention was introduced.

https://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/asylum-boats-statistics/

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140597#Comment_122140597

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/18/western-australia-boat-arrivals-what-are-the-current-laws-and-policies-on-asylum-seekers#:~:text=Verdict,detention%20and%20third%2Dcountry%20resettlement.

The above article is quite informative especially this quote.

But these only applied for asylum seekers who arrived by boat before 19 July 2013, and so belong to a different cohort, who were not sent offshore. Since 19 July 2013, both Labor and Coalition agree that asylum seekers who arrive by boat to claim protection will never resettle in Australia.

(Asylum seekers who arrive by plane are able to apply for permanent protection visas.)

tom23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139922#Comment_122139922

Hate the telegraph… but it pains me to say that article is not far of the truth as I see it. Bang on the money when he says Government feels its way through policy heavily influenced by powerful NGO’s i’ll add. And before there is a pile on it’s certain NGOs that mainly have skin in the game of Immigration.

Northernlily

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140233#Comment_122140233

Well done. There has to be respect for the law or else everyone will be at this craic.

Rip it down and make an example.

What I don't get is how this developer felt so brazen to build these houses without permission. There is much more to this story I think. It looks like he built on a promise by someone that they would be looked after.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140633#Comment_122140633

And who one suspects are ably represented here on this thread. Asides them, I heard Catherine Day 'interviewed' again this morning. I put that as 'interviewed' as really she was just given airtime by RTE to promote her vision that Ireland will be the future home of the worlds great unwashed. Ms Day says we must build state accommodation so that we can comfortably deal with all arrivals. As for local concerns, well she says just explain the issues to citizens affected and that's that.

Why does one get the impression that Catherine Day is utterly and totally unaffected by the policies she promotes? Does she even live here anymore?

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140522#Comment_122140522

You keep asking people this when your own proposals somehow fix our problems by giving away citizenship and visas to IPA's and clamp down on the "far right".

But you see everything else as a bad idea…. the irony is clearly lost on you.

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140768#Comment_122140768

I am practically certain there will be a move to ensure that the development is retained. I bet there will be an overnight law to ensure this or something, if one doesn't exist already. If not, pending an appeal which I am sure there will be, the Gov will give permission for temporary retention to ease the accommodation crisis for IPAs. Betcha.

There is a McMansion in Co. Meath that was built without PP. It is still there over ten years later. Just saying.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140785#Comment_122140785

does she not realise that the more we build the more will come, we'll always be playing catchup

tom23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140785#Comment_122140785

What Catherine means is that you tell the local citizens 'shut the **** up and go on your way'. Another person that has way too much airtime. Build build Build is all you hear. Thats there answer to everything .

baldbear

When far right racists get elected in this country it's the governments lax immigration policy that is at fault and all the needless goodies.

Why hand out medical cards to all who seek international protection/Ukrainians when they find employment. Why not do a means test?

Why continue the €800 a month ARP to Ukrainians even when they get employment?

This is killing the accommodation down the country for other citizens where landlords are opting for this tax free sweetener Why aren't they made to pay for their accommodation once employed? Likewise with international protection applicants?

Why aren't these loop holes closed? All it does is increase resentment for people who are living here all their lives and have paid alot of taxes.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140624#Comment_122140624

I don't see your claim verified in that article, that only those who arrived before 2013 were sent offshore.

In fact pre-2013 those sent offshore were allowed resettle in Australia, this is represent by the group labelled 'returned to Australia as part of pre-19 July 2013 cohort' in the graph I shared above.

There's also 1046 people in the above graph, marked 'Total in Australia for a temporary purpose' who arrived post 2013 and are de facto resettled in Australia. They are now living in the mainland, though officially I think until they can be resettled.

After 10 years in the system, I would imagine the likelihood of them ever being moved again to being near 0.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jun/24/australia-to-move-last-refugee-from-offshore-processing-on-nauru-but-its-cruelty-and-cost-is-not-over

The costs of this exercise I estimate at 2.8 million AUD per person, based on figures below. This does not include resettlement aid payments to third countries, for those who did not return to Australia. In one case it emerged that 40 million was spent on a scheme which eventually resettled only 7 people to Cambodia, the cost for this small group then being 8.5 million per person.

All of this for a policy which all available evidence shows had no impact on numbers arriving.

https://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/operation-sovereign-borders-offshore-detention-statistics/7/

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140573#Comment_122140573

"Any country that refuses to accept their own citizens back should be denied any aid or development funding from the EU." Efforts have been in place for approx 20 years to relate aid and funding to accepting deportations, to little success.

Without some drastic international changes I wouldn't expect we'll ever be able to deport any more than 15-20% of arrivals. This is based on our historical capabilities and the experiences of other countries, including those with hard or far-right governments.

I have some questions on your camp proposals, if you might answer them?

Will you provide heating in winter?

Will you house children in these camps?

If no, will you separate parents from children?

Would these camps be secured or can people come and go?

Can children in this system attend school?

Will medical aid be available?

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140785#Comment_122140785

"The great unwashed"

Not that I lose any sleep over it, but I do wonder why people feel the need to talk about migrants in this way. Even on a favourable interpretation, it's just astounding arrogance.

You have done nothing to deserve being born in a wealthy, safe, tolerant country. Nothing. It is no achievement of yours — just pure fortune. Whether they are asylum seekers or economic migrants, a lot of these people have grafted hard, and in many cases taken great risks, to seek out the opportunities in life that in the Western world are simply laid out for us from our earliest days.

Yeah...a lot of them aren't as educated as you, or as trained, or as well financed. A lot of them have never had the opportunities you have had to learn, develop, take nice holidays, acquire skills that let you waltz abroad into nice cushy jobs. Seems poor form to demean them for it.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140414#Comment_122140414

How they respond to media criticism will be interesting, because I don't think aligning all Ukrainian welfare payments at the standard AS rate is an unpopular policy.

So if they backtrack you can deduce that they are more concerned by negative press from an out of touch media rather than doing something which wanted by the population.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141140#Comment_122141140

It's a phrase, a well known one that describes things aptly. You know what it means, it's not literal, I know what it means. Get over it?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140797#Comment_122140797

I never proposed giving away citizenship and visas to IPAs.

I think we should prioritize applicants from countries in the global south for visas/permits. They'd would still have to meet job requirements and only for positions that aren't filled by Irish or EU applicants.

I think we should offer pathway to citizenship schemes for any suitable candidates in essential services such as healthcare and construction. This shouldn't be limited to IPAs.

Clamping down on the far-right is a no-brainer given the crimes, riots, intimidation etc we've seen in the last year or two.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141140#Comment_122141140

You have done nothing to deserve being born in a wealthy, safe, tolerant country.

Apart from our forefathers who fought to gain Irish independence, who worked hard, paid taxes, contributed to the social and financial fabric that makes our democracy safe and peaceful, and through who's efforts to make this country a better place for their children to be raised in…

But yea you're right apart from that our previous generations of Irish citizens have done f** all…

Geuze

Does anybody know why we have attracted so many UKR refugees?

Is it the language, English?

Is it the cash benefits?

Or something else?

Compare us to France:

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141197#Comment_122141197

You answered your own question…

prunudo

i see from twitter its started to heat up down in Clonmel. Fencing going up around the 11 acre site that is rumoured (which means it probably is happening) to be used for pods.

Also, semi related to the journal article about the dodgy carry on at the city west centre. There was an incident in Newtownmountkennedy yesterday where a group of asylum seekers, kicked off and attacked the security at the new tented centre. Ambulance and gardai called and couple injured taken away.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141193#Comment_122141193

"Previous generations" being the key phrase there, right? I've never seen a finer example of someone agreeing with me so disagreeingly.

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141122#Comment_122141122

Historically, our immigration policy has been to bury our heads in the sand or outright attempt to attract as many AS as possible so I wouldn't draw any conclusions from that lamentable failure.

Covid showed that when an emergency rears its head, the Government can actually do basically anything it wants.

We should not aim for 15-20% but 100% of all economic migrants should be deported. No if's, buts or maybes.

Obviously there would be heating in winter. Very few children would have been able to cross 20 plus EU countries without a family unit so more or less a moot point. Any unaccompanied children would be better off in foster care or more secure accomodation. The numbers should be tiny for this group. No need to separate children unless there is evidence of child abuse which presumably would be rare.

I doubt they could be secured fully as that would be a detainment camp like Australia. Would need buses to and from i suppose.

Obviously, we need to fast track these decisions so school would be moot as we should be deciding within weeks.

Obviously medical aid would be available.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141164#Comment_122141164

Oh, of course. It's just a phrase — an apt phrase. My mistake, that bloody snowflakey heart of mine kicking off again.

I expect in that case you would have no qualms with describing a family of migrants or refugees as "the great unwashed" to their faces then because there is no way it could be taken by anyone to be a derogatory term?

ooter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141224#Comment_122141224

If it was the locals kicking off I'd imagine it would've been all over the media.

DeadHand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139922#Comment_122139922

Interesting article.

The fact that the Irish media (with a handful of exceptions) would not produce anything so scathing is very much a part of the problem.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141177#Comment_122141177

You should really go back and read your own posts.

As i said at the time and I will say it again, moving numbers from one column to another achieves nothing - even if it made any sense it wont stop the numbers coming, so your solution is not actually a solution.

Given you consider yourself the bastion of common sense, I would assume you would clamp down on both sides of the political extreme?

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141238#Comment_122141238

What do you mean what have I done. Let me then list some of the things some of the previous generations dealt with.

🤣🤣🤣