Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Furze99

There is a degree of confusion over what can and can't be discussed on this thread. Is it just 'refugees' as per the OP and related warnings on page 1 and page 725.

Does this extend to the asylum seeker issue and policies relating to both?

If both these issues of refugees and asylum seekers can be discussed, does such discussion relate to 'immigration'.

@Beasty please clarify, so that people can stay within what's deemed suitable.

Miharo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122157239#Comment_122157239

Interesting (if true) that they asked about their attitudes to Irish society when it was admitted that they only recently started asking about which countries they have travelled through to get here - which would seem like fairly basic information to request from someone who is asking for protection, housing and other supportams from the war or persecution they are fleeing. Although nothing would surprise me.

If I was genuinely fearful for my personal safety and seeking refuge somewhere I would be grateful to the country providing me with that refuge and do everything to prove the veracity of my claim. You want to see my phone location history? Here you go. You want to see my Facebook and Instagram accounts to support that I am who I say I am? No problem. Especially if I have no documents to support my claims despite managing to arrive there somehow?!

And if I have absolutely nothing to prove this and that country has limited resources to provide sanctuary.. well that country is well within their right to prioritise people who have documents or other evidence to support their claims. Simple solution, implement a points based system based on credibility. We only have capacity for 10% of applicants then the 10% most credible get accepted. The rest..sorry.. we've limited capacity and others had more evidence to support their asylum claim.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122158346#Comment_122158346

You said ; “All you have proved with your anecdotal evidence is that you do not ask them.”

So you don’t accept they are genuinely in a position to know then - or in this case both the posters - that’s fine it was unclear from what you said there in quotes.

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122158491#Comment_122158491

Asylum seekers are actually seeking refugee status, and the country's refugee policy is directly relevant to its "asylum seeker" policy. People who migrate seeing asylum are therefore part of the topic of this thread

If anyone has further questions PM me. Do not respond to this post here

mistersifter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122158346#Comment_122158346

You're criticising others for using anecdotes yet your counterpoint is equally anecdotal i.e. you imply (in post 21770) that you have inside info on what applicants are asked.

To make things worse, you then state that asylum seekers are asked about their attitudes but then you also say (21753) that this does not mean that such info impacts decisions. So your own point, by your own admission, is actually moot. This is a completely childish and purposely confusing method of posting that undermines any shred of credibility in your arguments.

The interview is described online (links below). It only covers international protection matters. There is nothing to suggest that attitudes towards Irish society are investigated - the contrary is in fact the case.

If an interviewer goes off on an unapproved tangent and starts asking questions that do not pertain to the formal process, then any information garnered cannot be used to make a decision.

https://ipo.gov.ie/en/ipo/pages/assesment
http://www.ipo.gov.ie/en/IPO/InfoBookletNew.pdf/Files/InfoBookletNew.pdf

Francie Barrett

https://extra.ie/2024/05/19/news/irish-news/deportations-overturned-ireland

This government has no interest in enforcing deportation orders.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122158279#Comment_122158279

There's zero chance of that happening.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-41394742.html

As Ireland becomes more of a melting pot, we need to foster a sense of cohesion while allowing new citizens to preserve their cultural heritage. Actually, the term melting pot arguably brings difficulties because it suggests developing a monoculture, so maybe we should be aiming for a tossed salad with a nice dressing to cover us all.

It doesn't seem like the people advocating for increased migration want these people to integrate at all.

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122158340#Comment_122158340

I’d imagine if the Dutch Government were intent on facilitating Putin’s interests, the Government’s position on Ukraine would be the primary policy area in which to effect that - as it is, the Dutch Government is pro-Ukraine, reflecting the interests of the Dutch electorate, and the Dutch Government is in favour of limiting immigration, reflecting the interests of the Dutch electorate. If the issue of migration were addressed adequately at a national and EU level, and if the various EU electorates were confident in their Government’s ability to control and limit migration in a manner consistent with the will of the electorate, then the use of migration as a geopolitical tool by malign actors, Putin, Lukashenko, Erdogan etc. would be considerably reduced.

Sunjava

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122158908#Comment_122158908

Humans do not generally integrate if there is enough people similar to themselves. Example..driving through Letterkenny this evening, I passed an all-weather soccer pitch, probably an 8 or 9 aside match taking place. All participants were non-Irish (visual presumption). All fine but it perfectly exemplifies if you have enough of your own you will have segregation. Immigration is all about numbers, you cannot have a big number arrive and not expect them to create their own community.

ShamNNspace

@sunjava….I lived in Munich in the mid 80s, one of a handful of Irish there at the time, consequently I quickly learned German in evening classes because I had to in order to work , socialised in German bars (there weren't any Irish bars like they have now) I considered myself fairly integrated reading German papers and following their media.…. Forward about 10 years I found myself back in Germany (Berlin this time) there was a bit of a boom that time after the wall coming down, to my shame I fell into the old trap of frequenting Irish/British run bars hanging around in that scene because there were many Irish and British workers there at this time, in Berlin I only entigrated in a peripheral way because of this and it is still a regret to me

john123470

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122158992#Comment_122158992

Its a given yes. Possibly not even too surprising if all the people on that pitch were from the same family (am i allowed to say this?)

Then, once enclaves (segragations, as you say) are established, these football teams will, naturally enough want political representation.

More often than not, their culture and values will differ radically from their host country, hence the impossibility of integration. Then you will have situations, like as currently happening in the UK, where these enclaves will use their number to strongarm local elections.

I don't know any Irish people (in the majority, currently at least) who would be happy about their culture and values being gradually superceded and eroded by the "guests of the nation," the very people they were kind enough offer shelter while fleeing wars in their own countries.

Why is it so hard for the pro immigration lobby to accept that Irish people do not want their culture / values diluted and replaced ?

Jeff2

I don't think this has been posted.

https://youtu.be/6PiV3kzzpJM?si=1YmAcTufCpJzySsp

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122158712#Comment_122158712

Yes an interviewer interested in just ticking boxes, will do just that. An interested more rounded interviewer will take the time to know the person a little better. There are some people who are very good with interview techniques.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159454#Comment_122159454

The interview is to ascertain if their asylum claim is legal and meets the criteria to stay. It’s not to see if they are a nice person.

mistersifter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159454#Comment_122159454

You have no proof of what you are saying, yet you criticise others for the referring to their own personal experiences.

As I said, if an interviewer goes rogue then the information they acquire in doing so cannot be used as part of the application. In fact, the interviewer may land themselves in trouble, as they are trained in a certain process and cannot just ask whatever they want. The formal process is laid out online and clearly states there are limits to the questions asked, and that only international protection matters are discussed.

Stop using anecdotal info yourself if you want to criticise others for the same, and stop with the cryptic nonsense of "I know something but I can't say it".

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159473#Comment_122159473

You would be surprised at people in general, put at ease, chatted to, how much more open they are to talking about their experiences.

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122157929#Comment_122157929

The UK is one of the most ethnically diverse countries in the world. Compare it to any African or Asian country which are all mono-ethnic and monocultural. Your viewpoint is so wrong that I don't even want to lower myself to argue with someone on your level.

I can only hope that you are young enough to educate yourself a bit more about the wider world.

tom23

That massive war Raging in Nigeria.

Lotus Flower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159494#Comment_122159494

The question is not in the formal process in the link. Are you sure you’re not confusing with NGOs discuss with the formal process?

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159497#Comment_122159497

You seem to have forgotten what the topic of our conversation is about. It's about similarities between the UK and Ireland. Not the UK and Africa. UK and Ireland are very much not similar when it comes to the countries attitudes and acceptances to foreign cultures.

Again, I suggest educating yourself yourself on Brexit and the reasons why the UK left the EU. Then compare it to Ireland's attitude to the EU and freedom of movement.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159488#Comment_122159488

Well, in a similar vein, the idea that employees of NGOs are advising asylum seekers how to 'cheat the system' is surely bogus. Anyone doing this would get into serious trouble with their managers - they can only advise people according to whatever guidelines have been issued. Go on a solo run and they would bring a load of trouble on themselves.

ECookie13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159626#Comment_122159626

This is the usual paintbrush tactic when all the factual polls prove otherwise. This post was possibly correct 2/3 years ago, but not anymore and that's a fact, Jack.

And also the typical one-size-fits-all "immigration" tactic, when it's been covered millions of times how there are big differences in legal, skilled-based immigration and the issue we are in.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159665#Comment_122159665

If you think the European and local election parties are going to be won by anti immigration parties I've some magic beans to sell you.

john123470

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159626#Comment_122159626

Can you really speak for the Irish people ?

I explained yesterday that as a born and bred Irishman, I despair at what is happening to my country.

You refused to answer if you were Irish or not. When asked, you said ..

"I know it will disappoint you, and it disappoints me, but this thread isn't about me. So who I am, where I'm from, what I do and anything else about me is off topic unfortunately."

And this is precisely what we the Irish people fear most - ie. folk swanning in from elsewhere (purportedly under the guise of fleeing war) telling us how and what to think.

Give me strength

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159674#Comment_122159674

The Germans laughed at the fledgling Nazi party one time....

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159728#Comment_122159728

You certainly don't speak for Irish people given the fact you've been pushing narratives that the vast majority of Irish people don't support. Anti immigration candidates aren't going to sweep the EU and local elections, yet you refuse to accept that.

The majority of Irish people don't agree with you, accept it.

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159611#Comment_122159611

I don't need to educate myself. I've forgotten more about modern British history than you'll ever know in your lifetime so give this junior cerl level drivel a rest.

There are far more immigrants entering the UK both from within and without the EU than before Brexit which hugely undermines your argument that Britain was turning insular and less welcoming to foreigners. Net migration hit over 700,000 people there last year with the majority coming from 3rd world nations.

Ireland would collapse with a similar sustained rise in immigration. In fact, our reaction to a few hundred tents on mount street and the grand canal shows that we're exactly alike with those British people who voted for Brexit.

The ordinary men and women of Ireland can't understand why these people are here after bouncing around the EU for years and why we are supposed to feed and house them for an indefinite period with nothing back in return.

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159626#Comment_122159626

There's going to be almost no mainstream Irish political parties left who are pro-immigration especially of the illegal kind.

ECookie13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159757#Comment_122159757

I can accept some Irish people don't agree with everything I believe in, but that does not change what I believe in and know to be factual information by one iota.

Can you accept the same? Somehow you seem to think you can throw about sweeping statements for the general population.

Work away, anyone with a brain knows that the statements you are throwing about are only believed by a small minority within Ireland nowadays.

Tenzor07

Always interesting that the Woke Left contributors on here try to paint the views of Irish people who are against Illegal immigration as being "Anti-Immigration" when the reality is that many of us work with and are friends with people who have legally emigrated here and contribute to society, and don't just come here expecting everything handed to them.. A typical tactic that puts off most people by fear of being seen as racist…