Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

alias no.9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205109#Comment_122205109

The same point stands for facilitating mass migration and the consequent societal problems or should we just bury our heads in the sand and pretend somehow things will be different here?

We should start with the goal and benchmark best practices to achieve that goal, as far as I'm concerned that should be to minimise the arrival of random punters who have the wherewithal to fund travel across the world and the Danish Model is the benchmark. Any resources we have to help refugees should be directed at the most vulnerable, the ones in camps adjacent to active warzones, not the globetrotting scam artists.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204591#Comment_122204591

From what I understand, the tweets were aimed at asylum seekers already living in Direct Provision in Ireland, explaining that they wouldn't have to live in DP forever.

You could certainly argue that O'Gorman was a bit naïve in sending them and didn't realise they might be used against him much later on.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205189#Comment_122205189

What's shown by the Trump case is yet another example of the type of grifter political figure who trades on anti-immigration tirades.

Closer to home we could look at Johnson or Truss and their disastrous leaderships, plenty more examples all around Europe.

I welcome debate on immigration but plenty of politicians deal in scaremongering or quick-fix promises to appeal to a populist mob. Witness Trump's reaction speech after being found guilty.

“You have a [George] Soros-backed DA and the whole thing. We didn’t do a thing wrong. I’m a very innocent man.”

He went on to blame the Biden administration. “This was done by the Biden administration in order to wound or hurt a political opponent. And I think it’s just a disgrace. And we’ll keep fighting, we’ll fight to the end and we’ll win because our country’s gone to hell. We don’t have a country anymore.

“We have a divided mess. We’re a nation in decline, serious decline. Millions and millions of people pouring into our country right now from prisons, and from mental institutions, terrorists, and they’re taking over our country. We have a country that’s in big trouble, but this was a rigged decision right from Day 1 from a conflicted judge who should have never been allowed to try this case. Never.”

https://deadline.com/2024/05/donald-trump-speech-guilty-verdicts-1235945241/

These politicians are treating a sector of the populace as mugs who'll vote for anyone who promises to fix an immigration 'crisis' which they have inflated and misrepresented.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205172#Comment_122205172

No one's being imported. No issues are being imported. People are coming here of their own will, largely to escape desperate situations.

They will continue to come.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205172#Comment_122205172

If we were actually interested in helping Africans, the most cost-effective way would be to do it in their own country. If the all in annual cost of supporting a Somalian in Ireland was €20k, then you could support about 40x that number if they remained in their own country (Somalian GDP per capita is €500).

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205255#Comment_122205255

All the Danish model is doing is pushing people to their EU neighbours.

Where are the 3.5k people who disappeared from Danish camps in just three years?

https://unbiasthenews.org/living-in-fear-in-copenhagen-how-denmark-is-deliberately-infringing-on-the-rights-of-people-seeking-asylum/

Gen.Zhukov

Speaking of our Somali fisherman friend -

Sean Moncrieff was in Somalia late last year. The report was broadcast earlier this year. He met a woman and listened to how tough it was for her. It was seriously grim, the country is a kip. She hadn't a pot…things were bad, really bad. Sean innocently asked her via an interpreter how many children she had…a few seconds went by and the answer was 8

I switched off

Just had a scope on wiki -

Somalia's population is expanding at a growth rate of 1.75% per annum and a birth rate of 40.87 births per 1,000 people.[1] The total fertility rate of Somalia is 6.08 children born per woman (2014 estimates), the fourth highest in the world, according to the CIA World Factbook.[1]

And O'Gorman thought that sending out the invite directly to the Somalis (in their own language) to come to Ireland was a good idea

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205282#Comment_122205282

They will continue to come but in future it will be only genuine AS who get to stay. Those who commit serious crimes can also be deported so we will have more control over both the quality and quantity of who gets to settle in Ireland. This current free for all is temporary.

They are paying thousands of Euro to move around a variety of EU countries to get the best deal. They're not desperate but are availing of our foolishness prior to developing a rational migration policy.

tom23

regardless if those tweets where aspirational or not why did he tweet them on global platform? why not do a town hall meeting at the DP or issue a leaflet.

They went out to the world and I have no doubht they were interpreted as a country that was very liberal and possibly offering a better life.

Also coupled with the fact that we known as a soft touch to every trafficker in the northern hemisphere.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205298#Comment_122205298

Bingo!

The path of least resistance applies to stopping illegal immigration. If we want to end it, we need only make it less attractive than other countries.

If other countries wish to have a loose policy on migration, that is one hundred percent their prerogative. We should accept that right, as they should accept ours.

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205296#Comment_122205296

I agree but I'm not sure if the current model of constantly giving aid to support exponential population growth is sustainable or desirable in any case. Nigeria alone is projected to have almost a billion people by the end of the century while populations decline everywhere outside Africa.

Blind As A Bat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205272#Comment_122205272

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205272#Comment_122205272

Scaremongering works on a politically naive public. The American electorate simply cannot be compared to the Irish. The American political system is laughable.

Indeed even the UK public are not as politically savvy and engaged as the Irish electorate.

alias no.9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205298#Comment_122205298

Expand it to the full EU, we owe random globetrotters nothing, let them try China and Russia, both facing demographic cliffs, let's see how they get on there.

Any resources should be targeted at the most vulnerable, not the most mobile and affluent relative to where they come from.

Spanish Eyes

I often wonder why foreign aid to countries with massive birth rates doesnt include mass provision of injectible or implanted long term contraception. Vasectomy too.

Maybe there is a program like this. Maybe cultural norms are against it, Maybe numbers are needed in the absence of mechanisation. But not doing it is poor use of the massive foreign aid budget out there. IMO.

Anyway I'm out of the country for a bit, is Thornton Hall ready yet or will it be like the kids hospital.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188690#Comment_122188690

It is always deflection with you isnt it?

As i recall you referred to the comments of a barrister, senior council and former attorney general in relation to proposed changes to the constitution as nonsense. Which given the information that came out after the vote, from both the AG and various government departments, proved him to be correct.

But obviously i must be wrong and your understanding of legislation and the constitution is vastly superior to that of Senator McDowell's. Maybe it is he who should apologise to you given your holier than thou attitude.

iamwhoiam

I am convinced that NGO are telling the asylum seekers to group together and go the Ballsbridge . How would an newly arrived asylum seekers even know where to go or where Ballsbridge is ?

This wont go down well in Ballsbridge !

Quags

Don't know if it was posted but Micky D wants office space to be used to house refugees.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/it-might-be-time-for-us-to-look-at-all-of-the-unused-office-space-president-higgins-offers-solution-to-refugee-accommodation-crisis/a1248932158.html

B2021M

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205271#Comment_122205271

Then he could have communicated with those in DP here at the time not send a tweet to the whole world?

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205230#Comment_122205230

From the article - 3km of fencing now which is being hired. More money wasted just on that. I presume it was tendered for……

It's also ridiculous unless they plan to fence off every patch of grass and corner in the city.

The only way to deal with this is stop/deny these people entry to the country at the border unless they can prove they have a legitimate claim under the terms they say they are arriving. Economic migrants arriving via NI from safe countries, or lads stowing away in containers, or other "losing" their documents on a flight do not fall under this criteria. As I've said too, they also demonstrate a flagrant disregard for our laws in the process. This alone should disqualify them.

If they want to build encampments for these people, then build them next to the airport and Rosslaire etc - if they can't produce the required evidence/documents, they are placed there under supervision until they are deported at the earliest opportunity.

In paralell, all supports for these people should be reduced to absolute minimums to discourage more arrivals - no medical cards, no pocket money etc. Basic food and healthcare while they are held for processing. No media or NGO access either which is also part of the problem.

Let's also always remember that none of these people are forced to stay here if the conditions are not "acceptable" - they are free to leave at any point and try their luck elsewhere or go home. We just need to make it completely unattractive to chancers so that we actually COULD help legitimate cases - but always within sustainable limits, and never at the expense of resources or supports needed by our own citizens and natives.

At EU level, we need to excercise the opt-outs we already have access to. This should be put to any MEP hopeful that is currently cavanassing - and not accept this "migration pact" that McEntee and others are pushing as an answer.

All of the above could be done within days and weeks, completely legally and while still fulfilling our "international obligations" while we work in the background to redefine what those are and shift the balance back to not destroying Ireland in the process.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205282#Comment_122205282

You do not travel half way around the world to escape desperate situations.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203851#Comment_122203851

Point of order on this nonsense idea that there's no impact to the rental/housing market:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fresh-drive-to-buy-up-properties-for-asylum-seekers-as-up-to-100-migrants-on-mount-st-told-no-beds-available/a2073617781.html

Meanwhile, the Department of Integration has put out a tender to builders, developers, landlords and property owners for vacant housing which could be turned into asylum seeker accommodation. The tender was formally issued earlier this week.

Buildings which are planned, with full planning permission but are “not built” will be considered; as well as those which need renovations and those in turnkey condition are listed in the tender.

That's from the Independent at the start of this month. "Idiots", right?

ooter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205463#Comment_122205463

I wonder will he get as much grief for sticking his beak in as he has when he's done it on previous occasions?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205480#Comment_122205480

If I had to up and move my family from my home place I'd be going where they'd have the best opportunities and hope.

The information is readily available and networks are in place to bring people here.

That's the world we live in.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205514#Comment_122205514

All playing the system, economic migration rather than genuine asylum - glad we finally agree on something.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205470#Comment_122205470

Good post- and let’s be clear also- this isn’t about “anti-immigration” or turning away those who are in most need. Most of these people were already in the UK but don’t like the Ts&Cs attached to that process so are hopping over to Ireland- we need to continue to treat genuine asylum seekers with the respect they deserve but absolutely make it completely unattractive for these inadmissible people who aren’t genuine to return back to their receiving country

tom23

I find it so frustrating when they say immigrants (of what ever kind) is not competing with Irish for houses, especially social houses. There’s visual proof if one was to take the time to do it.

dmakc

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/parents-refused-asylum-dont-have-proxy-right-to-work-on-behalf-of-three-year-old-son-court-rules/a500141872.html

TLDR;

• 2016: Parents are unsuccessful in their IPA application.
• 2021: Having survived unexecuted deportation warrants for a number of years, their son was born.
• 2022: Child's international protection application was granted and they themselves were granted "Stamp 4" visas which allow them to live and work in the State until September 2025.
• Not content with this, the parents sue the state over the period during which they said they had been denied access to the labour market while their child's international protection application was pending.

What more needs to be said

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205521#Comment_122205521

They don't have to be one or the other. And ultimately does it really matter?

People forced to leave will still often chose the most promising location where they can.

See how many Iranians came to the US after the revolution etc.

babaracus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205539#Comment_122205539

Time to make Ireland a damn sight less promising so.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205539#Comment_122205539

Yes it matters, it matters a lot.

Iranians going to the US have nothing to do with the current situation in Ireland.