Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219500#Comment_122219500

Aren't people who circumvent immigration rules just the worst.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-41400151.html

I don't know how you can blame the government for people wanting to circumvent the rules and come here though.

That's something external to their control.

If the comments here are legit people want to do the same for countries with hard border controls. And there's plenty of evidence of people trying to bypass visa systems to enter Australia.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219360#Comment_122219360

That video is from two and a half years ago and most of the comments are over a year old.

But in any event, there are hundreds of such videos on YouTube advising people on how they might be able to claim asylum in dozens of different countries - I'm not sure why this would be a surprise. YouTube is as good a platform as any in sharing this type of information.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219500#Comment_122219500

these people where they freely admit arriving from the UK or from/via another EU state and/or safe country..

And if they haven't claimed asylum there, they are not doing anything illegal. Fair enough, it might not be right, but there's nothing illegal about it.

People from safe countries can still claim asylum, although it should be a much quicker process, within 3 months I think.

if they have claimed asylum, their fingerprints will show that, but the Dublin regulations have been shown not to be effective as many of those first countries, refuse to take them back. Which is why they are going to change the system, with the new EU migration pact.

Quags

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219565#Comment_122219565

Did Peter Casey go to the US system looking for handouts and housing? From the link you posted it reads like he had a job but Visa was not changed by the time he arrived.

"The post itself was in response to a now-deleted tweet, where Mr Casey admits to working in the US ahead of receiving his L1 visa — which allows companies to transfer managers between foreign offices to their US offices."

I do not believe that majority of those arriving here want to work and that's all this thread is about. Most people understand that people do come here for a better life and when that happens and they contribute then great but go looking around Dublin City Centre an those who come here for thee free ride is what annoys people.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219565#Comment_122219565

Your attempts at "gotchas" (Casey, McMamara, Gript etc) are lost on me - if wrongdoing occurred, it should be investigated and prosecuted under the laws as appropriate, regardless of who it is.

Equally, facts and truth are exactly that regardless of the source. That's not to say that everything is true or accurate - from ANY source - but the information should be judged individually, on its own merits rather than immediately dismissing it because you don't like the source.

However.. Back to your post - the Government are absolutely at fault for actively promoting this country as a destination for freebies and residence, for not enforcing the rules we do have (as McEntee recently conceded to in committee hearings), and for ignoring and marginalising the questions and concerns raised by the natives and citizens of this State - ie: the people they actually ARE answerable to, not the NGOs, lobbyists, or social media crusaders.

Quags

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219615#Comment_122219615

Fingerprints are checked against two databases, neither is a criminal database. The 2 they are using is EuroDac for international protection applicants or people who have crossed a border illegally or SIS which contains information about false documents or identification which has been captured by an EU member state or the Schengen associated countries,  It does not record a person’s criminal history or records.

So really who is coming into the country with no papers is nearly anybody's guess

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217896#Comment_122217896

What question?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217930#Comment_122217930

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122218054#Comment_122218054

So the both of you accept you have issues with legal immigration? This constant denial of it at this stage is bizarre.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219661#Comment_122219661

I never suggested they are checked against criminal databases. I said a previous asylum claim would show.

Having a criminal record is not a bar to claiming asylum.

Quags

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219674#Comment_122219674

Ok so their fingerprints show they haven't claimed asylum but same fingerprints aren't run against database for crimes and you want people to be happy about it. Surely the police need to know if a wanted or previous murderer/rapist has arrived in the country

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219664#Comment_122219664

I believe I've been clear in the post you quoted and the others from me in this thread.

Immigration can certainly be a very good and welcome opportunity and benefit to a country. It can offer additional manpower for jobs, skills, ideas and the potential to learn from each other.

But it must always be controlled and those controls must reflect the views and mandate of the native population and citizens. Immigration should always benefit the hosts, not just the new arrivals and it should never threaten the culture, communities or needs of the hosts. It's our country after all and as native Irish and citizens we have a fundamental right for our needs, concerns, goals, and wishes to be represented above all else. That's a fundamental element of the democratic system after all as well as the social contract between citizen and State.

It must be as equally effective at identifying those who have legitimate rights or needs, and those who are chancing their arm with consequences such as refusal, deportation and blacklisting to rapidly follow.

Ultimately it must be sustainable - limiting numbers to manageable levels, and ensuring that we don't continue to do things such as parachute hundreds of random men into small communities leave the locals to deal with the consequences.

Again, what's wrong with that?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219633#Comment_122219633

Well you were saying what a terribly low opinion you have of people you circumvent immigration rules. Can't be trusted, worst of the worst etc, etc.

I thought it relevant to point out that one of those types is running in the upcoming election, which is the focus of much commentary in this thread.

Anywho that's something of an aside, back to your post.

You've moved now from claiming people are trying to circumvent rules to come here because of some inaction on the governments part… to just giving out about what you see as inaction on the governments part.

Is that a fair synopsis of your last post?

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219732#Comment_122219732

I do compelte agree about the importance of having a democratic mandate. After Friday we will all know where the electorate stand on immigration issues.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219744#Comment_122219744

I responded to the points you raised in your previous posts. It's all there in those you quoted and my others. Feel free to read back if you wish.

But I'm not going down the rabbit hole with you no more than I am willing to with certain others. It's pointless, circular and ultimately just derails and distracts from the conversation.

However, rather than continually trying to poke holes in the posts or views of others, how about this....

What would YOU suggest is a reasonable course of action to address the problems we are facing as a country on this issue? What would you do to address these problems AND ensure that the concerns and views of our citizens (as expressed in polls and surveys in our mainstream media - thereby giving a national view of them) are heard and represented?

Or do you genuinely not believe that there's no real problem - in which case feel free to disregard the above as we'll never agree anyway.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219732#Comment_122219732

I'm not sure there's anything wrong with it, bit of scaremongering, but about par for the course.

Where it's entirely unrealistic is where you expect Ireland to come up with some perfect immigration system and be able to implement same regardless of any actualities we face.

Pie in the sky stuff.

bloopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219790#Comment_122219790

Why won't you answer the question?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219776#Comment_122219776

I've already outlined what I think we should do. I'm off for my dinner now so I won't repeat again just now.

I suspect you wouldn't think it enough.

Where I'll pull you up, and this relates to my last comment on your posts, is why you seem to think there's a relationship between the public wanting something (if they even do), and policies being available to achieve these goals.

I think we'd all like better weather, lower taxes and longer holidays. Is that going to happen?

The UK wanted something too, 'stop the boats', they all voted for it, and it hasn't happened, though not for lack of trying. Instead what they got was years of disastrous Tory policies.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219176#Comment_122219176

When you are a Marxist everyone has to be treated equally, regardless of whether they're foreign rapists, or law-abiding citizens.

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122218122#Comment_122218122

That doesn't go far enough.

Every single country should be put on the safe list by default. Even if a country is at war, I don't think everyone should have an automatic right to asylum. For example, Ukraine is a country that is 1,300km long. It's one thing to claim asylum if you're from Bakhmut which is right on the frontline. It's quite another to claim asylum from Lyiv, which is hundreds of miles away from fighting.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219821#Comment_122219821

Is it perhaps not so much that I wouldn't think it enough as you know yourself that it wouldn't be enough? Genuine question - I'm interested as to what measures you'd implement and where you'd draw the line? How much is enough?

With regards your other point/question - actually yes! That's the whole point of the electoral process and democratic system we live in. We vote for candidates/parties based on our desire for our needs/interests to be heard and represented, and we choose those who we feel are best likely to do that.

The fact that they don't follow through in many cases is a different issue but yes, if we decided we wanted a bank holiday in September (which I personally think would be great as it's a very dark road from August to October) then there's no real reason it couldn't be delivered if enough people voted for it.

Brexit is a very different issue - no one is suggesting Ireland leave the EU (yet) though I personally think our relationship with our "friends" on the continent is in bad need of review and change to dealing as equals and with national interests in mind rather than the compliant, servile interactions that characterise much of our engagement now. However, it would certainly seem that recent moves by the UK on the issue have seen a surge in new arrivals via the North to the point where the Gardai are making token but visible efforts to police it as we've seen in the last fortnight or so.

For now though, enjoy your dinner.

AraLaveItOut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219416#Comment_122219416

Even if it is fake… people will still see this and believe it. If we've learned anything from social media, people read something a believe it. And I'd imagine people who are looking to get asylum in certain countries, are more likely to look these kind of videos up.

At best it's fake and spreading misinformation, which will encourage more people to chance their arm here who have previously applied for asylum in other countries, wasting resources money and time which could be used for geniune people, damaging the reputation of those seeking asylum even moe - which is dangerous.
At worst, it and the comments are real, and the government have stooped to a new level of incompetence and lies, not even checking fingerprints against other databases. Also dangerous.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219708#Comment_122219708

We are a haven for foreign criminals https://gript.ie/revealed-asylum-seekers-fingerprints-not-checked-against-criminal-databases/

Quags

How would he know this?

https://twitter.com/PaulTreyvaud/status/1798015425940263041

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219708#Comment_122219708

If someone arrived without documents, and refuses to give their actual details, what database you gonna.check their.fingerprints against?

And why would I want people to be happy about it? Stop trying to put things into me that dont.exist

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219986#Comment_122219986

I wouldn't.. I'd just deport them back to wherever they arrived from.

Quags

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219986#Comment_122219986

No Database, straight back on the plane to wherever you boarded

Miharo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219986#Comment_122219986

Why should we entertain anyone who refuses to give basic details about themselves?

Quags

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219986#Comment_122219986

I will rephrase it. What you said earlier is basically if their fingerprints dont appear on the database for previous claims then they should be allowed in and have their case heard but my point is we dont actually know who these people are. Im not saying everybody should be aware of who is who but surely its common sense when we have people coming into the country that we know their criminal history

tom23

I

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219983#Comment_122219983

I take it was a ukrainian candidate?

fran38

What airline allows people onto their planes without ID? One has to pass 2/3 checks normally to get on to a plane. This new government proposal is just to hoodwink people into thinking theyre doing something. In reality it's all goverment spin BS

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122219993#Comment_122219993

WeWell unfortunately the law states they are free to claim asylum. You can't just send them back, that's assuming the country would even take them back, which is doubtful.