Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

pc7

The tents that keep appearing around canal and Mount Street, are they being moved to Crooksling etc. then just coming back? Or are these new IPA's each time does anyone know?

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259837#Comment_122259837

I'd say new mostly as there's a few hundred arriving weekly. I see them quite regularly with suitcases around the city centre (The Lighthouse place on Pearse Street seems to get a good few daily).

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259848#Comment_122259848

Fine weather for camping but this is going to be a disaster come winter.

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122259882#Comment_122259882

Tourist season will be over by then, so they will find plenty greedy hotel owners willing to accommodate them.

Geuze

I have a question about Indian and Bangladeshi AS.

South Korea, Singapore, etc. have very low fertility rates.

India and Bangladesh are closer to SK than they are to Ireland.

There are no direct flights from Ireland to India, AFAIK.

Why do the Indians travel all the way to a small island off the coast of Europe?

Why don't they claim asylum in a closer country, e.g. Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea?

Why do the Indians pass by loads of other countries, and then claim asylum in Ireland?

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258101#Comment_122258101

Women and kids from a country with a real war, needing to make room for young lads from Middle East and Africa who hate pretty much everything about us, but can’t find jobs in their local hellhole that ended up like that precisely due to that lack of culture and education

Mad stuff

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258369#Comment_122258369

But I thought they were all living in houses and that's why we've a housing crisis?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258101#Comment_122258101

It's difficult for them alright. They are though 'guests of the nation' and whilst they may or may not be paying something towards their accommodation, it's the state which has to manage the accommodation contracts. Clearly they should get reasonable notice but likewise I don't see how there can be a guarantee that as a war refugee you're housed in one place and that's it, you stay there indefinitely. When the state mismanages such resources, it also gets a lot of criticism.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260365#Comment_122260365

I could be wrong but I doubt there's any Indian or Bangladeshi IPAs on the thread to answer your question.

You could try going out and meeting some?

They're just people like me and you after all.

You'd get an interesting new perspective on the world, and you might even make a new friend.

Real Donald Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAHAy3Bg6Pw

Germany getting tough, or appearing to on migrants, due to the rise in support for the AFD (FAR RITE)

They must work 4 hours a day to keep benefits, while only getting a card to use within a certain region to buy goods etc. They've also blocked them from transferring money back home.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260997#Comment_122260997

Doesn't look that tough tbf.

I'm considered an open border lefty and I've been saying community service would be a great idea. Plus the guys in the video are quite positive and joking about it.

Half their payments are still in cash too.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122256547#Comment_122256547

Have ya got room in your wardrobe. Might be able to stick a few in there.

Along with their extented family of 40 when they arrive.

Remember this boys. History will tell a very sad story into the future of the clowns orchestrating and promoting this lunacy.

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261159#Comment_122261159

Not in mine, but plenty of room in south Dublin

Isn't it ironic the name the brand of these tents is called *Trespass* 🤣

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261452#Comment_122261452

🤣 haha well if thats not an indication. Nothing is

Geuze

Obviously immigration adds to the demand for housing. There is no debate about that. People who say the opposite are deluded, or they want to ignore the truth.

My question is not so much about legal immigration by Indians (nurses, ICT, etc.), but Indians making asylum claims here.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260733#Comment_122260733

None of the residents expect to be there indefinitely, but they deserved a reasonable level of notice.
There is a housing crisis and almost nothing to rent in Shannon. With a longer period of notice some may have been able to make arrangements and keep their jobs.
This move means residents will lose their jobs and be sent to a rural village that already has way too many immigrants, rather than staying in an industrial town that can more easily absorb them and where many companies have labour shortages.

it’s bad for Lisdoonvarna, for Shannon, for the refugees and for their employers.

I didn’t mention it above, but it is a severe move on kids who are already traumatised.

The Government are a disaster, after years of being overly generous, they now want to look tough and end up being cruel to people who already lost everything just two years ago.

It is a genuine disgrace.

Blind As A Bat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261573#Comment_122261573

"Indians making asylum claims here."

It's very rare for Indians to seek asylum in Ireland or elsewhere. I think you may be confusing them with Pakistanis??

For the record, the chief claimants in Ireland at this time in order of their numbers, are Nigeria, Algeria, Afghanistan, Georgia and Somalia.

One of the things I find very worrying is that asylum seekers and refugees can exchange their driving licences for an Irish one. The idea that people who don't even know the rules of the road in Ireland, have never driven on the left side and come from countries with appalling road safety records, are simply allowed to drive here is sheer madness. But of course making them take mandatory driver education course and sit an Irish driving test would cost even more tax payers' money.

Another poster was saying the other day that Irish people needed to be educated regarding immigration. If you want a good source of reliable information regarding the asylum procedure, this report has everything you need, published in December 2023 so fairly up to date. It's a long read but worth it if you are concerned about what's happening.

There is a very good table on page 13 that gives an excellent overview of the asylum application process.

On page 25 there is a breakdown of the infamous White Paper proposal detailing the two phase accommodation mooted by O'Gorman.

As you can see, in phase two, that own door accommodation was to include private tenancies. Approved housing bodies are also mentioned. This is rather vague. Does it include social housing? Either way, one can see that if this model were to proceed, it would no doubt result in inequalities between Irish citizens (be they ethnically Irish or otherwise Irish) and people with no permanent right to remain in the country. Housing that could and should be available to Irish citizens would be offered to asylum seekers.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/libraryResearch/2023/2023-12-11_l-rs-note-refugees-in-ireland-the-eu-and-worldwide-refugees-in-ireland_en.pdf

Gamergurll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261687#Comment_122261687

How do we tell which ones are genuine?

Miharo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261976#Comment_122261976

You make your best judgement based on the evidence available. That's the best we can be expected to do. 5% refugee policy would be better, with a 95% rejection rate as nearly all coming now are not genuine with special consideration to those from countries that have an ongoing conflict.

So many are coming from the UK having already claimed asylum and benefits there. The big influx since Brexit is no coincidence. The additional payments for those in tents must be a draw now too, especially if you're not really staying in the tent.

The card idea that Germany have implemented makes a lot of sense where they have to spend the money in local shops and for local services. The biggest problem we have is abuse of the system.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261715#Comment_122261715

I have sympathy for their plight, BUT…. they were never here under any sort of permanent arrangement (at least not officially - whether many remain here indefinitely in the long run is another issue) and that should come with the expectation that their circumstances/supports may change and given the situation we find ourselves in with regards "dependent/state-supported immigration" numbers, those changes may be at very short notice.

Given this is our Government, anyone paying attention (including those NGOs/volunteers/locals engaging with the people in question) should know that it'll probably be done in the most haphazard and insensitive way possible - anyone who's ever had to engage with the Department of Social Welfare will know exactly what I mean.

The issue here is that we've allowed these people to settle without the ability to self-sufficiently support themselves and created (once-again) a further level of complication to an already very messy and overburdened situation.

What should happen now really is that those with the skills and ability to provide for themselves should be treated no differently to anyone else. If they want to live and work here then let them do so under the same conditions as the locals (including meeting visa requirements if applicable).

Those who can't do this should face the same choice as any other refugee or asylum seeker who finds themselves in less than ideal conditions here or isn't happy with the changes forced on them - stay and deal with it, or leave.

Let's not forget that. No-one is forcing ANY of these people to stay here and deal with being uprooted randomly (which is no different to any private tenant in this country incidentally), to sleep in tents, or to be "stuck" in a direct provision centre. They can leave at any point and go home (Ukraine is a vast country with large parts of it running more or less normally) or find another country that might give them what they want.

We do not have the capacity or the resources to "save" and provide for everyone who lands at our door. The Government have already bitten off far more than we can chew in this regard. While many seem willing to absolve the refugees/asylum seekers of any responsibility in that regard I'm afraid I don't - they made the conscious decision to come here, through several countries and over thousands of miles in the process, and despite the conditions many seem determined to stay and do press interviews and hold out for "more!". To deny any of that is to rob these people of any agency and suggest that they are easily-led pawns with no say in their own fates, which isn't and never has been the case.

I feel sympathy for them as I said at the start, and I've been in that position myself where through no fault of my own I've had to move away from my job and stability - in my case 2 counties away because that's what I could afford/find at the time. It wasn't easy either and it cost me a lot of time, money and frustration too, but no Government agency rushed to my aid and no-one started a campaign to force my landlord to let me stay. I just had to get on with it and decide what to do next within the boundaries of what I COULD control/do.

Just as these people will have to.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261974#Comment_122261974

That’s false

2024

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/03/india-undocumented-immigrants/

2023

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/rise-undocumented-indian-immigrants-crossing-us-borders-foot-rcna123874

2022

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62893926

There are 1.4 billion Indians and 1.3 billion Chinese and both groups are migrating en masse as far as US never mind little Ireland where everyone is welcome (just bring own tent)

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261526#Comment_122261526

I don't think you'll find anyone who won't admit legal immigration has had an impact on housing. Problem is most people are constantly telling us they have no problem with legal immigration.

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262116#Comment_122262116

Nigerian chancers often claim to be persecuted Catholics and then ask for a copy of the Koran for their bedtime reading.

Quite a claim. Do you have anything to back it up?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261715#Comment_122261715

In fairness Sunny, we have adult children living at home in their childhood bedrooms 'boxrooms' who would love to be living independent lives up in the big smoke etc. but who can't afford the exorbitant rents on places to let. You'd have to ask in these general circumstances why war refugees and asylum seekers would get preferential treatment? It's not great for many young Irish adults to be honest.

In other news, West Wicklow is now being targeted by the state for accommodation. I suppose it's handy to Dublin and the IPAS offices etc. Apart from Crooksling and the debacle at Kippure House, increasing angst around Blessington and Baltinglass. One of the effects of putting lads up in Crooksling has been apparently to overwhelm the only public bus service that goes from Dublin out that way to Blessington.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262028#Comment_122262028

That might be because we can't discuss legal immigration on this thread. I raised the general issue and some numbers previously, was promptly warned and post deleted. It is another elephant in the room but for another thread I guess.

Blind As A Bat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262320#Comment_122262320

Christians are persecuted in Nigeria, many have been killed for their beliefs. Therefore if a Nigerian Muslim wants to come to Europe, they can claim asylum as a persecuted Christian. It happens. Same as hetero guys from homophobic countries pretending to be gay and then getting women pregnant while they're in DP.

marno21

Roderic O'Gorman topped the poll in Castleknock in 2019 with 27.3% of the vote. This time around the Green candidate got 7.9% of the vote and wasn't elected.

Looking at this decline he can now relate his party's decline in fortunes in his locality to the revenues of the tourism sector in several towns on the western seaboard over the last few years.

Oxo Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262453#Comment_122262453

It's FF/FG/Green has us where we are. Don't vote SF/SD/PBP and so on, if you don't think they are up to the task, but lets blame bad policy on the policy makers.

The Healy Rae's are master pot hole fixers. It would be very hard to dethrone them.

If, as we were led to believe, part of the housing crisis is down to not enough building industry workers, instead of spending money on housing immigrants in a form of limbo for years, we send them to tech to learn a trade? Then they can contribute and make a life for themselves. We have spent over several years trying to put out fires. We should be well into bumping up construction worker numbers and filtering immigrants in and out by now. The FF/FG/Green lack of vision, disinterest and incompetence is beyond belief.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122262328#Comment_122262328

You’re missing the point, which is that two weeks notice is not reasonable.

In the circumstances the transfer will see jobs lost.

It’s a strained and false equivalence between adult children living with their parents and kids/parents who had their home towns destroyed by Russian bombing.

When the Ukrainians are moved out of Phoenix House the building won’t be going into residential use anyway, the move won’t ease the housing crisis in the slightest way.

All they wanted was a reasonable length of notice before having to move from the building.

There are deeply traumatised kids there, young widows whose husbands were killed by the Russians, elderly people whose homes were destroyed and towns occupied. With the slightest effort and a minimal amount of respect the State could not add to their suffering.

But it seems the Government after seeing being too generous isn’t working for them are now going to try being too mean.

Common sense won’t be given a chance for another while.

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260365#Comment_122260365

South Korea, Singapore and Japan have strict immigration laws. They wouldn't get away with the stuff happening here in those countries.