Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284489#Comment_122284489

But this isn't any old bill. It has the possibility to radically change and shape the direction of the countries future. As Micheal McDowell spells out in the video attached above, there is far more to fear from this bill than the government are claiming.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283866#Comment_122283866

Every single peice of legislation affects more than one person. It's simply not possible to put every single piece of legislation to a referendum.

Repro212

Thanks for sharing Stephen. Hats off to McDowell for standing up for the Irish people on this subject.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284507#Comment_122284507

Lots of Bills have the possibility of doing that. Our participation in the EU has the possibility of doing that. That's why we elect politicians and MEPs we can't vote on every Bill or even on Bills that have a big impact.

Lotus Flower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284550#Comment_122284550

participation in the EU might not be the best example seeing as joining the EU was actually brought to a referendum back in the 70s

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284550#Comment_122284550

We'll have to argee to disagree.

I can't believe how people and the government can be so flippant about a rule change that essentially gives an outside authority the power to tell us we have to take x amount of extra citizens, and thats not including the extra that will come from the UK as they won't be part of this pact. This will destroy the country, we can't cope with the population growth as it is.

Angeleena

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283640#Comment_122283640

What is it with FG Government and immigration? They were really bad at it even before the war in Ukraine.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284597#Comment_122284597

That's exactly why it is the best example. We voted to allow EU law become Irish law and voted to allow the Dail to implement EU law.

DaithiMa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284489#Comment_122284489

Again, I agree. Holding referendums on ridiculous things like the care and family bill is a complete waste of time.

This migration pact is probably one of the most important EU directives that will have a long and lasting impact on this country (and every other EU country) since the Lisbon treaty.

Given how our currently elected politicians have handled immigration policy to date I think it would be lunacy to allow them to decide to sign up to something like this without consulting the electorate. Instead they seem to be hell bent on rushing it though a few months before a general election.

Why not hold off signing up and have a referendum at the same time as the general election? That would be the sensible thing to do.

SpoonyMcSpoon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282113#Comment_122282113

This is bizarre: it sounds very serious and yet there was no police complaint made and the details are so vague. If ever there was a reason to question “fake news” it would be stories like this! I’m not saying it didn’t happen but it didn’t happen for all intents and purposes.

Babyreignbow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283577#Comment_122283577

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0620/1455699-arrests-taoiseach/

Garda Headquarters said the three men were arrested for alleged offences contrary to Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act as part of ongoing investigations into the alleged harassment of an elected official.

Section 10 of the legislation makes it an offence to harass someone by "intentionally or recklessly seriously interfere with the other’s peace and privacy or cause alarm, distress or harm to the other."

The offence is punishable by a €1,500 fine or up to 12 months in prison at District Court level, but up to seven years in prison for more serious offences prosecuted in the Circuit Court.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284871#Comment_122284871

And should every decision that impacts Ireland be put to a vote? Should we have toout the budget to a vote every year? If the government want to build a new metro system, should that be put to a vote?

Again, it's ridiculous to suggest they should. We'd be voting on an almost daily basis.

klose

A man working the site for 83 units in Clonmel was seriously injured and needed an airlift to a nearby hospital last Thursday, additional ambulances also left the site, the word seems to be one other man needed to go to the hospital from those.

literally no official word on the man or what happened, assumably an airlift to a hospital (assumably cork/Limerick) rumours he died but who knows. No official comment from the site as it’s pretty shrouded in secrecy. The local news station Tipp Fm reported on it at the time but got cold feet or were told to take it down since, stinks of a bit of a cover up.

Francie Barrett

https://www.gov.ie/en/speech/6d16e-opening-speech-by-minister-mcentee-in-dail-eireann-motion-to-opt-in-to-seven-measures-of-the-eu-migration-pact/

Inward migration has been hugely positive for Ireland. It has provided significant benefits to our economy and to our society. We can all see this in our hospitals, in our nursing homes, in our hospitality sector, and in our agriculture and food processing sectors. Last year alone, the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment issued almost 31,000 Employment Permits. Over 10,000 of these permits were issued to people in the Health & Social Work sector. Without migration, Ireland would face significant challenges filling roles in important sectors of our economy. They also contribute significant tax revenue of €3 billion.

This is the opening statement of Helen McEntee on the migration pact.

She's knowingly and deliberately trying to conflate legal migration through the work permit system and asylum.

How can we believe a single word of what this government has to say? It's all just constant lying.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285172#Comment_122285172

The more I hear and see of Ipas and the people they get to run and implement the centre's the shadier it gets.

DaithiMa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285067#Comment_122285067

Where did I say every decision should be put to a vote? Ridiculous indeed. If you are going to debate you could at least do so in good faith.

I'm arguing that absolutely huge decisions like committing to the migration pact should be put to the people before non issues like enduring relationships and the word 'woman' in the constitution.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285281#Comment_122285281

Who?

If you make a statement like that I would assume you have something to back this up.

sonofenoch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284059#Comment_122284059

You say that like copycat of the Democrats is a good thing, the US is a mess banana Republic …they will be ousted, the Irish government is copying them almost word for word, liberalism is one thing but radical liberalism is another thing entirely … it's what we're seeing and it won't wash with common sense people

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285358#Comment_122285358

So you do think every budget and every major construction project should he voted in by the public?

I don't. The whole point of voting in TDs is to make decisions.

DaithiMa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285440#Comment_122285440

No I don't and again, I never even came close to saying that. Budgets and construction projects are completely different issues to the EU Migration pact.

Both sides of the political spectrum, left and right, have issues with some of the directives in the pact. Even Sinn Fein have opposed it. Surely something as monumental as this deserves to be fully debated and thrashed out before being put to the people. If it is a good thing for the country, the government should have absolutely no problem convincing the electorate it is the right way to go and to vote yes for it.

Photobox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285189#Comment_122285189

This x 100, sick of the disingenuous gaslighting by our government, our main stream media etc.I have absolutely no problem either with somebody who wants to work here through the proper channels t, sick to death of our government conflating both. Its infuriating. There are no words anymore at the dishonesty.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285492#Comment_122285492

Your rational for having a referendum on the EU pact is because of the potential impact it has on people. The budget and major construction projects also have that same potential. In fact, even more so with the budget. So I don't understand why you don't think that should be voted on.

Both sides of the political spectrum have an issue with the budget every year and vote against it. So again, why should the budget not be put before the people to vote on it every year? After all, if it's a good thing for the country, then the government would have absolutely no problem convincing the electorate.

Gen.Zhukov

Sometimes you have to look at what is NOT happening, to understand what IS happening -

What I mean is - if we go back a little bit to the report of the 50 ASs/scammers being sent back to Belfast and Holyhead a few weeks back which RTE reported on with great gusto. I called this out at the time as being a load of horse as it's simply illegal to do that - It was a handy report that was sent out about 10/12 days before the election - No journalist (and I use the term loosely) queried this. There has been nothing since, nada, zilch - It looked like they'd found the perfect solution yet we're not hearing anymore reports of this brilliant strategy since then - They sneaked one little report out and figured that they couldn't chance it any further in case a jurno managed to grow a ball (unlikely as that may be)

Can some of the mass 'uncontrolled immigration'/FG fans here explain why this brilliant strategy is not been reported on since then…thanks guys👍️

The media control that has increased (slowly but steadily) over the years, has almost reached 100% - It's way more subtle and way more under the radar than NK, China, Russia - but it's there, mark my words

Had the journalists, MSM in this country done their job in the first place, we would NOT be anywhere near the shambles we are in now - They sold us out just as much as the Govt did

DaithiMa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285534#Comment_122285534

How can you compare a yearly, regular event like the budget with the EU Migration pact?

maebee

To those who will be voting in Simon Harris's constituency in the forthcoming general election, please note his stated opinion - "Ireland is not full and Ireland depends on immigration".

I agree with him that we depend on LEGAL immigration. I strongly disagree with him on "Ireland is not full". Ireland is FULL of Irish homeless people and FULL of children who need scoliosis operations. SH is more concerned about flooding this country with emigrants than he is with looking after Ireland's citizens.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285370#Comment_122285370

Apologies, I believed this was an opinion board - I’d not realised I was under oath. /s

lumphammer2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285418#Comment_122285418

Copying the Democrats is better than copying the filthy Republicans …. but yes the US is a mess …. badly needs a third party …. the current Republicans are an evil cabal of filthy wannabe Gileadeans who make their Handmaid's Tale cousins look polite by comparison …. they are a loudmouth negative cabal of fools with a giant teddybear with orange hair as their puppet and promoter ….. behind Teddybear is an evil politburo hellbent on war with Iran and repressing the rights of Americans ….

The Republican scum are able to exploit the 2 party system …. and are able to fool the voters who also believe Elvis is alive and living as a preacher somewhere, that man did not go to the moon and went to Nevada instead …. and more apt that Iraq had WMD in 2002 …. they also believe that JFK faked his own death and now leads Iran and the Democrat party from Tehran …. ok I made the latter up but expect something like that if the Republican slime win in November to justify their Iran war and banning of the American opposition ….

The Irish far right copy that and their slogans …. I'd be far more concerned by that than what the Irish govt do …. I do not see what these types have to offer or why anyone bar racists, the misinformed and warmongers would support them …. the sooner the current evil Republican party is put out of business permanently and their leaders placed where they BELONG ….. in JAIL …. the better …. then their poison may not appeal as much to the rest of the world's wannabe Republicans of Gilead in waiting ….

Viktor Orban and people like him should be 100% ashamed of themselves …. Orban started out as someone who was completely different …. clearly dirty Republican money from America turned his head ….. this far right evil is well funded by Republican minded US businessmen and by other oligarchs who don't care one iota for democracy ….

The Democrats are not ideal by any means …. but if America remains a 2 party system I know they are preferable to the vermin the Republicans now are ….. Republicans stand for 2 things only ….. war and rolling back citizen rights ….. and Trump is a fool who will one day REGRET what he is paid to front …. and Trump is only in it for that reason …. his failed company needs a bailout and those far right effers bailed him out in return for him to front for them ….

I see in Ireland all this US-style far right anti-migrant rhetoric ….. it is greatly exaggerated and the same rent-a-thugs who attack migrants and burn down buildings are the same burglars, violent drunks and potential murderers who terrorise our communities …. and 100% settled Irish too …. for me they are the REAL enemy and I'd gladly like to see them deported off our shores …. but know no other country wants them because the native irish criminal far right are the REAL vermin …..

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284791#Comment_122284791

You are very quick to tell us what we voted for, but you ignore that we also voted for Lisbon on the understanding that we would retain control of our immigration (or have a choice, whatever way you want to word it).

For the government to just opt into this goes against that vote. But i guess that does not matter right?

This is in no way remotely relevant to EU budgets or whatever other waffle you want to bring up.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285629#Comment_122285629

As i said, you used the metric that the migration pact has the potential to significantly impact people so that was the reason there should be a referendum on it. so does the budget.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285981#Comment_122285981

It doesn't go against the Lisbon treaty. The Lisbon Treaty vote amendmended the Constitution to state that approval from both Houses of the Oireachtas would be required. That's what Irish people voted for, to let the TDs decide. Suggesting a referendum is actually going against what people voted for under the Lisbon treaty.

Patrick2010

The Lisbon treaty only got through because of the negotiated opt out clause. In our innocence back then we assumed our politicians were going to use it, otherwise why negotiate for it?