Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608759#Comment_120608759

I don't think it can all be put down to individual failings.

We're seeing now working homeless which we didn't have before. And an awful lot of working 'hidden' homeless, people stuck with parents/friends because they can't afford to rent or buy.

That's down to policy, not individual failing.

And it's got zero to do with refugees. That hotel in Clare was never going to be opened for 'our own' either way.

Build homes not hate.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608794#Comment_120608794

Hand on heart, I just cannot understand this situation.

It's like going into a bank to hear that you've magically been given millions, but then being told that you're poorer than ever before. What?

I heard varadkar mention something like we have a deficit of 250'000 homes, yet then at the same time theres more and more people arriving. How does that square???

Where's all this money they keep boasting about?

It's not helping society, that's as clear as a bell. It's not helping housing, it's not helping the hse, it's not helping schools, it's not helping dwindling resources like childcare and special needs.

So what is it helping??

We have an economy fueled by cheap migration and phantom multinationals, that produces money that's never to be seen, as everything goes down the toilet.

What am I missing here?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608794#Comment_120608794

Housing and financing possibly hundreds of thousands of people arriving with not a pot to piss in means we are already in massive trouble …roughly 95,000-100,000 have arrived from the Ukraine for ‘temporary’ ^cough^ protection…

our population was growing before this… so a slowing down isn’t likely unless we keep spending foolhardily on everyone wanting to come here. Without the scope to limit it to non EU citizens.

refugees because of the Ukrainian publicity and levels of help, see first hand that there is a new life available with almost every facet of help, protection, financing safety and a future being laid on, free gratis.

so we are on the radar for African, Asian and anyone who fancies improving their lot. Problems maybe, but genuine refugees many are not.

JP Liz V1

Has any TD or junior TD commented on behalf of the people protesting or all on the side of bringing everyone here

I see Aisling Murphy's case has been postponed, coincidence the timing giving the culprit

Surely Interpol would come take away their high priority serial killer

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/05/17/asylum-seekers-to-be-moved-into-three-centres-in-santry-dun-laoghaire-and-clondalkin/

Social Democrats TD Roisin Shortall said there was “complete failure” by the Department of Integration to consult with residents at one site in her constituency

Isn't it amazing the hypocrisy of the left?

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608838#Comment_120608838

I dont think that is exactly true. We have a two speed economy with expensive skiled labour working in multinationals and then more traditional domestic industries some of which includes unskilled labour but both rely on immigration for workers. The rents are going up because of the inequality in wages between the multinationals and local industries.

We are not unique, Singapore has a housing shortage at the moment but have a plan to build 100k units in next two years thoigh while our government has given up it seems on any house building strategy.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608846#Comment_120608846

There isn't a single part of this equation that stands to reason. Like not one bit.

Not enough resource, keep allowing more people into the country.

Tons of money, yet where is it's benefit?

Homeless towns being erected, not a bother.

Even villages the length and breadth being used to house more and more people, yet accommodation for most irish people in the country is as rare as uranium.

Hospitals are jammed, schools are jammed, homeless lists are record high and growing, there's practically no new infrastructure to mention, but we're apparently minted.

Who needs a tinfoil hat with the likes of this going on?

Can anyone make sense of this???

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608872#Comment_120608872

But if that were true, what is the ratio of this two speed economy? 1:10? 1:100? 1:100000?

But world war 4 could break out and there'd be a small percentage of people doing well out of it. There's always a small few profiting even out of the most heinous things.

But what is the point of this magic economy?

Where is the money going?

Record negative things left, right and centre, the one apparent positive is the money.

So where is it? It looks mighty useless from pretty much every single angle.

Migration seems tied to the hip of this economy, but what good is it materially doing for society?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608880#Comment_120608880

It’s almost like there is a gun to the head of the political classes, every party.

never in my life have I known not only a government, but the whole of the Irish political system so distanced and distracted from the Irish people they took the privilege and distinct responsibility to serve….its quite treasonous.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120607888#Comment_120607888

Post of the day here! Wish I could thank it twice!

Now (for the others), can we put the notion that this massive country is under siege to bed?

A part of it certainly is, and those are the genuine refugees who need assistance - but there's a whole country there that logically it would make more sense to move to first - closer to home/remaining family, same language, same education standards meaning a new job is easier to find, same school system etc.

Put yourself in their shoes then. Would you leave your home, your friends, your family, everything you know except as an absolute last resort and only after you'd exhausted the more local options? Why uproot your family to trek the breadth of Europe? Why go to a country on the western edge that has no shelter left to offer? Especially over a year later? What have you been doing till now?

But then there's also the non-Ukranians who are fleeing countries where there is no war or from Western European countries.. why are they here?

But regardless of all of this, the reality is that the country is full, the citizens have increasing concerns that are being ignored/twisted by a tone-deaf Government and complicit media that (just as with Covid) is not asking the questions they should be.

People are rightly concerned and voicing that concern (which isn't excusing any violence by the way) because there's clearly no one else who is going to represent them.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608856#Comment_120608856

The fact that we even HAVE a Minister and Department for "integration" under the current Government is a question in itself. This is clearly a long term "project" and with all these things, lots of jobs and money to be handed out to the hangers on both in and outside the Dail.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608915#Comment_120608915

As I said, you hardly need a tinfoil hat when looking at the absolute bonkers results of this.

Allowing, encouraging, facilitating more people year after year into a housing crisis is madness. Full stop. It's madness. Like pouring petrol on a fire to put it out.

The health system by all accounts is on its last legs, so evidently the years old mantra of migration helping the system is an utter sham. The proof is in front of our eyes, years later.

The gp's are saying they don't even have half the staff necessary for this population growth. Not even half.

You keep getting told about the economy this and the economy that, billions this and trillions that, yet there's barely a new fence to show for it.

Homeless figures, homeless shanty towns, the list is near endless of reality smashing off the face of weird theory.

But what is the theory anyway????

Has anyone, government or not, even attempted, a half hearted attempt, a fifth of an attempt, tried to explain any of it? Is there some note scribbled somewhere in an attic that spells out how this sheer lunacy adds up?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608939#Comment_120608939

Excellent point…

minister for ‘integration’… it is long long term… I wonder if / when we see as a nation the EU as the divisive, unfit for purpose clown show that it is, will they appoint a minister for disintegration… because disintegration is exactly the pathway that many lives will be taking.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608906#Comment_120608906

Revenue reported last year Foreign multinationals account for 32% of employment and 53% of employment taxes of corporate employers

https://revenue.ie/en/corporate/documents/research/ct-analysis-2022.pdf

In no way is the country "full". In terms of population density we are nowhere close to that but Dublin is creaking at the seams. The government just fails in any long term planning. The issue of refugee accommodation on housing is dwarfed by the governments wretched housing policy or any sort of policy to develop cities outside of Dublin.

If people think we can just turn off the tap on migration and that we wont go bankrupt , I just think they are being very optimistic.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608974#Comment_120608974

But how in the name of jaysus can you look at,

Record homeless Irish people,

Shanty towns being erected,

Accommodation for near anyone being like gold dust,

Hospital lists, waiting times,

Old folks homes being turned into refugee centres,

One horse towns having extra people bussed in,

And more,

yet still arrive at the conclusion that we aren't full? Or have the facility, or have the space,whatever way you want to word it.

If those things don't scream bursting to you, then a genuine question, what would "too many people" look like? How would it manifest itself to you?

A second question I'll add. You warn of going bankrupt if the tap was turned off. Well where's the benefit of all the supposed money as it is???

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608974#Comment_120608974

Population density isn’t the driver of problems.

population for the available services is….

JP Liz V1

This has probably been asked before but how can anyone with no papers, documentation, passport etc., be left in the country surely straight back to wherever they came from, no entry, have we any policing control at ports or airports 😡 Gorman is refusing to go to Clare

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608856#Comment_120608856

303 capacity and once again will house single men.

Where are all the female only centres?

Are we getting the same number of women as men?

Hopefully the locals get organised and put a stop to this.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608989#Comment_120608989

Services always follow population increases- unless it is a planned economy. Just think of the towns that sprung up in the Wild West as a result of gold rushes, towns increase in size overnight and then services were provided for this new population eventually. The population increase caused a lot of problems but ultimately the wealth the town increased.

Unfortunately I think the wealth in a growing economy mostly just beneifts those that already have wealth- the business owners and landlords. It seems Ireland economy is either in boom or bust. I would rather be in an Ireland where people are migrating to than from.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608966#Comment_120608966

No fear of that unfortunately. "We" (or at least most of our politicians) are completely beholden to the EU for attaboys, future jobs, or just as a convenient scapegoat to point at ("we're bound by EU regulations/agreements" - sound familiar?) whenever the locals start pushing back.

The EU will certainly fall yet (probably during the next financial crisis) when others break away, but good ole obidient, servile Ireland will be there till the last, hanging on to the coat tails of our "betters", and no matter the damage to our society, economy and future.

It's already happening!

hymenelectra

If someone were to demonstrate the effects of over population, this country is the perfect example.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

The money generated is nowhere to be seen, yet the negatives are to be seen from the inner city of Dublin to tiny villages on the west coast, from hospitals to schools, from housing to even firefighters throwing the towel in.

Is anyone even attempting to reconcile this situation with the economic theory?

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609029#Comment_120609029

So you agree that as things stand, ireland is way beyond capacity.

And for another thing, how many years do you allow or expect ireland to put up with ever shrinking capacity before it snaps? There's a fair argument to say it already has snapped when you have a tractor blocking access to more people in god knows where.

And following the trend of it becoming worse each year, when does population migration slow down to allow facility to catch up?

You would have to agree, it's a proper insult to tell people to knowingly put up with decreasing quality of life.

The most pertinent question being "how is this a good thing for me?"

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609029#Comment_120609029

Except the gold rush had gold to generate the wealth. Welfare, not so much.

keithb93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609029#Comment_120609029

I would much rather be in an Ireland people are leaving. Maybe then I wouldn’t be spending a small fortune on rent and petrol every month. Maybe then I could live in the city too, instead of out in the country because the landlord kicked us out to up the rent and we couldn’t find anything in budget in cork.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609082#Comment_120609082

I think the multinationals such a Google coming to Ireland and paying larger wages is our gold rush, of sorts. That is what is attracting skilled workers from other parts of the world.

bloopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608939#Comment_120608939

If this continues the way it is going, there will be no integration.

Just anger, suspicion and resentment.

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120607743#Comment_120607743

Do you think people that apply to live in Ireland legally should be forgiven sexual assaults and presumably, any past criminal activity, given this criteria?

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609104#Comment_120609104

You must have loved the 80's then. People scrambling for jobs, jobs being given to applicants based on who you know not ability, long lines of university students outside the US embassy applying for visas. I don't think it was a time a lot of people would willingly go back to.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609071#Comment_120609071

I dont really understand the term capacity- We certainly dont have enough houses at the moment if that i what you mean. But the capacity is artificial only limited because of poor government planning. It is not like we are Singapore or Hong Kong with limited space to work with.

What would be your preferred period to live in Ireland, when do you think our quality of life was the best?

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609105#Comment_120609105

Do you believe the asylum seekers and “refugees” are coming here to work in Google and Facebook?

keithb93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609120#Comment_120609120

I’m lucky enough to have been born after that, but I did go to college during the recession in 2010. It took me years to get a decent job after college and now I have one, I am still living pay check to pay check. The 50% rent increase because of lack of housing hasn’t helped.

it’s clear the government won’t fix the housing problem in this country. Why do we keep letting people in?

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609134#Comment_120609134

No they are coming because we are wealthy and probably a soft touch. We are wealthy because of the multinationals.

FAILSAFE 00

I find it bizarre that the left are so pro "undocumented" asylum seekers, welcoming everyone from countries that are extremely anti LGBT.

Do these folk just turn Pro LGBT when they pass immigration. I already know the answer.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608532#Comment_120608532

I have been wondering recently why the EU isn't making noises about our windfall corp tax amounts despite the fact that we increased our corp tax relate recently. They know that big corps are funneling revenues thru Dublin to avail of the relatively low rate. There hasn't been a peep about the windfall forecasts. I wonder is that because FFG are being obedient when it comes to asylum seeker numbers.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608928#Comment_120608928

It’s not that strange. If the improvement in quality of life has more pros, than the cons of leaving everything behind, lots of people will always do it.

Lots of Irish people left a safe country in the 80s to take their chances working illegally in America. There were jobs there, and they wasn’t much in Ireland.

that would explain all the Georgians and Albanians who want to come to Ireland.

add in real poverty, and sometimes conflict, and it’s a no-brainier that Ireland is better option for so many.

how Ireland copes with unpredented immigration driven population growth is another question…

mykrodot

looking down the road, into the future on this issue.........where are all these single young men going to find a woman, a mate, a partner for life? On Tinder? Are Irish women going to swipe right on them? Because in reality there aren't enough women to go around, all these guys seem to be in the same age group, they are not bringing women with them. So what does the future hold for them here ????

That's only one of a million questions we should be asking, fast forward 5 or 10 years, what will be happening? What will our crime rates be like, sexual assaults etc..................?

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609169#Comment_120609169

There is fundamental problem with that argument - the US has the ability to absorb enormous numbers of people due to scale and population.

We do not. We have a total population smaller than many large cities.

Archduke Franz Ferdinand

mickey Martin is as woke as they come he will slavishly follow Leo on this.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609130#Comment_120609130

But you do understand the term capacity, you just mentioned that we don't have enough housing.

A hospital that can care for 100 people adequately, is beyond capacity if it must care for 130.

Turning hotels into refugee centres is a symptom of over capacity.

The development of shanty towns is a symptom of over capacity.

And so forth.

It is clearly evident that this country is over capacity right now.

There's no point talking about theoretical policies while more and more people arrive. "We could build a megacities in the sky", yeah, we could, but it doesn't make it probable.

Those are pie in the sky dreams versus harsh lived reality.

We are over capacity right now. There is no sign, whatsoever, of any improvement, or plan, or strategy, or event that will change the immediate, medium, or long term future.

As for where I'd rather live in time, I'd like to live now. Like a burgeoning majority in this country, we don't have time for games and theories and what-ifs and perhaps and if-only's.

We are being forced into a position that is clearly and demonstrably to our detriment. There isn't a peep of the benefit, I would wager that's because there is no benefit.

How long do people put up with a government that offers them no positives of a situation, but the inherent promise of deepening negatives?

Not long. And how could it ever have been different?

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609183#Comment_120609183

At various stages in their history, New york for example had numerous surges in immigration which resulted in numerous problems that they overcame. People can say that they never gave free welfare to the unskilled irish that arrived there in the famine years but im sure alot of new yorkers then were saying they were " full up".

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120606255#Comment_120606255

Were all vetted, no criminal records, I fear some released or escaped prisoners are coming here, our prisons with netflix etc., are luxury for them

We cannot manage our own criminals who should have longer punishments so why take on other countries criminals

Where are the wars they are fleeing from, I'm surprised aliens haven't arrived claiming running from Ukraine over the war which is in one part

Beechwoodspark

Does anyone know have any of these men been vetted?

How do they get the records of men who claim to come from the like of Somalia or Afghanistan???

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609159#Comment_120609159

And you’ll have the chief enabler Varadkar out front and centre at the next pride March. All insincere grin arrogant sound bites and hunting for votes and handshakes…an absolute disgrace of a man.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609169#Comment_120609169

But see here's the problem (and you're right in what you say by the way)

We're told that we have to support these people because they're fleeing war and persecution - not that they're in search of a better paycheck and lifestyle.

There's certainly opportunities for those people too. Look and apply for a job, get hired and work and contribute here legally. No issue with that whatsoever!

The problem is that we are being asked to compromise and sacrifice our own paychecks and lifestyles to accommodate randomers in the second group who are trying to bypass that step by claiming they're part of the first group - and thereby in fact stealing resources from those who actually need and deserve it.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609283#Comment_120609283

AFAIK they all can claim from war savaged Ukraine despite coming from Georgia, Algeria and so on, do our incompetent government even try tracing who they really are, finger prints, pasts etc., just let them stay even with no documents on arrival

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609236#Comment_120609236

Yes, back when people were living 12 to a room, living in near starvation, and children were as likely to die in infancy as they were to survive.

People have a slightly higher expectation of how they should live now.

Unless you think the Irish should go back to living like we did in the early 1800's so we can accommodate every chancer that wants to come here.

waterwelly

O’Gorman explained that 10,000 beds have been added to the system since January, 

Amazon how we can house 10000 people but could never solve the homeless problem.

I work with many people of different nationalities who have all come to Ireland via the legal route. I absolutely support vetted controlled immigration.

I DO NOT support unvetted unskilled hordes of single young men being shoved into a community. With nothing to do all day.

One very important consideration is cultural assimilation. These young men mostly come from countries which do not value women or regard them as equals. They need to be educated that they are now in a very different environment and they need to respect our value set. I would make this non negotiable before any asylum application was accepted.

Reports that one of the new Dublin centres will be in Dun Laoire.. Govt being very cute. People there are too nice and woke to get out protesting. The accommodation is the old senior college on the same street as a new Niche accommodation centre for students. Would I like it if my young college going daughter had rented in the Niche complex? Absolutely not I would be very concerned for her safety.

This will be very interesting as it plays out in South Co Dublin.

Beasty

Drop any further discussion about the current situation in Ukraine. There is a thread dedicated to the conflict. This thread is about Ireland's refugee policy

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609421#Comment_120609421

But I don't see how this

the more people will reach to the right to find a balance.

is going to happen if no party of this type

the space exists for a centre right party to clean up.

I know some of us wouldnt like to admit it, but a tory party with Bravermans approach would win votes country wide at this stage.

comes forward, and it's hard to see how they will in time for the next election, given no efforts to establish one have come into the public domain

As I've said the establishment will continue to ignore this

the lurch to the right is the only exit route.

as an empty threat until it starts happening in the real world