Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

dmakc

I'd assume the refugees will be loyal to the party that brought them in

Salvation Tambourine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610875#Comment_120610875

"Anti refugee camp" is the type of language that can distort the argument though (I'm not saying you did this deliberately).

I reckon a miniscule proportion of people are anti refugee, it's the system and the people abusing the system that are the problem.

However, it is getting painted as anti refugee in the media and general chat sometimes. It's hard to change that narrative once it's started and you've some head cases making their loudest voice heard. A lot of people, including myself, will only really talk about the issues privately with people we tend to know will agree or at least not attack us for having our concerns with the system and those abusing the system. It's become to easy to dismiss any concerns with a few words "far right", "racist", "anti refugee", "they just want to be safe", etc.

I talked to a friend who had only read headlines of the East Wall coverage so didn't really have much of an opinion on what was happening but when I quoted two women interviewed by Newstalk about their concerns he was genuinely surprised he'd not heard any of that before.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610262#Comment_120610262

Really? Too close to the truth of what you're now saying?

If you and your "concerned" Inch fellow travellers are so worried about the sewage syster, why not put one of those very expensive tractors to use and empty the fcuking septic tanks?

That's be one of your "concerns" sorted.

What's happening there is now pure vigilantism.

Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

MegamanBoo

I've documented proof of a sex-offender being flown into a tiny, remote town in West Clare.

This guy boasts about the kind of sick sh1t he likes to do to women.

And they just wave him through immigration, no vetting, no questions asked.

https://i.cbc.ca/1.6648317.1668117626!/fileImage/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/usa-election-trump.JPG

BruteStock

Got a text from Maher Private - Referral received. We are currently experiencing high demand. Staff will contact to arrange appt in 10-14 days.

Silly me for thinking that by going private I would get an appt within 2-3 weeks. Its taking two weeks just to get an appt for an appt for what could be months away. I hear the waiting list for neurology is 1-3 year , private!

Its safe to say we are goosed medically for the foreseeable future. If only the government would give priority to immigrants that can approve our collapsing health system before the hoards of unqualified men seeking benefits and free houses.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41028566.html

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611490#Comment_120611490

I've news for you, those doctors weren't coming here anyway.

There's no houses and that's been coming for a long time, refugees or not.

Those doctors weren't going to be staying in tents or abandoned hotels.

A further shift to the right and scaremongering about foreign rapists isn't going to make the country more attractive to them either.

Montage of Feck

I was contemplating getting health insurance before I get screwed over by the risk equalisation, but decided against it. What's the point when you can't get a gp.

Montage of Feck

There doesn't have to be a shift to the right if current politicians applied some common sense rather than appealing to Twitter.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611442#Comment_120611442

Care to share this documented proof?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611095#Comment_120611095

It is a mixed area. But very expensive to buy into now. Even an ex council house.

People who are paying huge nortgages won't take kindly to a load of young men loitering round the seafront or congregating in the town centre.

Let's see how it plays out

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611490#Comment_120611490

We also have the issue if the brain drain where 80 percent of newly qualified doctors go off to Oz or the US.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611442#Comment_120611442

You do your argument no service with that silly stuff. We all know that young men in their 20s & 30s are going to be on the lookout to 'get their hole' if you'll excuse me being crude. It's basic human nature in Ireland, Brazil, Georgia, India wherever. This is one of the reasons why local residents are very wary of housing large groups of men in this category and particularly those coming from cultures where women are viewed as men's chattels.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611234#Comment_120611234

They're not just a bunch of new people though with full busy lives.

So let's see indeed

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611644#Comment_120611644

So your problem is not with actual light skinned, ok orange, sex-offenders coming to West Clare, because he's what, old now?

It's with what these dark-skinned Muslims are hypothetically going to do, because of your generalizations about their culture. And because they're young.

It's ok everyone, old white people can't be sex offenders.

Doesn't really stand up does it?

For me it shows as nonsense that these protestors are out trying to protect the women.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611757#Comment_120611757

I agree that services are being stretched by failing to deal with an increased population.

I can't see that the 100k refugees are having such a substantial effect. It's still a relatively very small number, especially if we allow, as others here are suggesting, that these are mostly younger people and less likely to require medical attention.

In terms of our health system my guess is that it's the equivalent of an extra bad flue season, or the pressures it will face in the next few years anyway with an aging population. Or may even face with other economic changes.

I think any potential impact by limiting or preventing refugees would be negated by the negative perception it would create, in those we need to come here to work in our health service.

The oil rich states can do pretty much what they like in terms of human-rights and still attract skilled workers.

We can't compete with their salaries.

We need to be seen as an attractive place to live and attacking 'foreigners' with dogs, burning them out and boarding their buses, labelling them all as rapists etc, certainly doesn't help.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611605#Comment_120611605

Where the sex-offender was landed into a remote Clare village, no questions asked. Here you go.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/north-america/donald-trump-to-visit-his-doonbeg-resort-for-two-night-stay-hotel-confirms/42444009.html

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611809#Comment_120611809

"ChatGP, write me the most idiotic, hyperbolic, left-wing message you can"

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611872#Comment_120611872

"ChatGTP explain to me why white rich sex-offenders are good. Dark imaginary ones are bad."

grumpyperson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610781#Comment_120610781

Irish college of GPs

https://www.icgp.ie/speck/properties/asset/asset.cfm%3Ftype%3DLibraryAsset%26id%3D9D6A8295%252D73F2%252D4623%252D816F366DC386B2A1%26property%3Dasset%26revision%3Dtip%26disposition%3Dinline%26app%3Dicgp%26filename%3DShaping%255Fthe%255FFuture%255F%252D%255FICGP%255FDiscussion%255FPaper%255FWorkforce%255FWorkload%255FCrisis%255Fin%255FGeneral%255FPractice%255FOctober%255F2022%252Epdf&ved=2ahUKEwjg7t2j5f7-AhULHcAKHbCCCzEQFnoECAgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3OoN6DkxefMCHh5DdE7oc6

Of 6 case studies only one practice taking on new patients. This has been ongoing since before Ukraine war. Our government seems completely incompetent.

realitykeeper

To me, this issue is more about government priorities than migrants. We have a housing crisis in this country because the government inflated house prices using the 200 billion euro it borrowed since 2008. Varadkar and O`Gorman seem flippant and distainful in their attitude to people who aspire to own their own home. Sinn Fein is no better, they seem to think people want to rent other people`s houses and are keen to throw them crumbs in the form of eviction bans and cheap flatpack shoeboxes to live in.

How about deflating the existing housing stock by the 200 billion it was inflated by? It`s easy, just tax property very heavily but exempt new builds and first time buyers for the next 20 years.

O`Gorman said he won`t go to Clare but the protesters can go to him. It sounds like the sort of thing Marie Antoinette would have said.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611734#Comment_120611734

well they've made no difference to East Wall which is a quieter area than DL so I think they'll be grand.

squonk

We need someone beter than Leo at the helm I think. I was struck by the coverage of the blockade in West Clare on yesterday evening's six-one onr RTE. Whatever about the situation in Inch and the rights or wrongs of it, the locals have concerns. It seems like this was foisted on them with maybe a few day's notice. My suspicion on what's happening is that those in the know are deliberately keeping locals in the dark until the 11th hour for fear of trouble in the lead up. We've had cases where facilities have been the victims of arson before so it does make sense to be coy about proposed locations. However, in this case, rather than talk to the locals and admist that they had some concerns and attempt to assuage those, we had Leo coming out on his high horse saying that nobody has the right to dictate who and who cannot live in their area. I dont' think that's the essential issue here. Rural Ireland has had a steady influx of new people for quite a long time. People don't essntially mind it. However when a large group of non-nationals are suddenly parachuted into a small area, I don't see how there would not be concerns.

Leo seems to be doing his best to fuel the fire by telling locals that they should shut up because their concerns don't matter. Telling people they don't have a right to dictate who lives in their community might be essentially correct but the issue here is the sudden and large influx of new people to the community without links or a shared culture or even the ability to integrate. It's a bad message and it's only compounded by Roderick O'Gorman refusing to meaningfully engage with the residents. More high-handed stuff there. I can't see how this won't breed even more fear and discontent in other communities facing an influx as seen in Inch. I can't see how other communities now will not be on watch for developments like this. Seems to be blaming those affected by the govenment's bad approach to planning for the results of the bad approach to planning. It's scary because we are generally an open and accepting country but government need to realise that if you keep doing what they're doing and are pushing people beyond what they can accept, and imposing situations on them then acting like it's a fait acompli and their problem, it's going to cause trouble.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611629#Comment_120611629

of course they do, they do so to get experience in their field and just to have a bit of fun while they can. most of us would if we had the qualifications to work pretty much wherever we like after finishing your medical degree and you can get experience in hospitals abroad that you just can't get in ireland. the majority of them come back though.

0ph0rce0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611966#Comment_120611966

They said they knew for months sure. Just kept it quiet.

https://twitter.com/HollyCairnsTD/status/1658829878181916675

72sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611022#Comment_120611022

THIS is the long term strategy. Decades ago Peter "The Irish Peasant" Sutherland was wheeled around Europe evangelising for open borders. Just wait until those "climate migrants" start arriving en masse. It's child's play to govern across countries when you've completely diluted their "racist"/"populist" traditions with poor people from all over the world. Varadkar et al are traitors as this policy is a deliberate attack on the Irish people.

grumpyperson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611857#Comment_120611857

Some have complex needs e.g. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00214-6/fulltext

I wish the health service was better and it should be better. However, it seems to be in a bad state.

If a bucket is full and more is put in, it just doesn't go in.

Again, I think this is a problem due to our incompetent government. Our health service should have surge capacity. I don't think we can or should blame refugees but nevertheless it seems we have a massive problem with capacity going back years and the government have done nothing. The extreme waiting lists were being highlighted before the Russian invasion even began.

I don't know the solution. Maybe put Martin and varadkar in prison along with some other HSE admin to encourage competent work to be done.

Not sure why everyone is getting so worked up at the moment. Last year we were amongst many offering a room, (I was going to sleep in the shed). There seems to be a serious turn in opinion very quickly.

The fact the Irish times had it's lead story yesterday as anti refugee and free to read suggests the government is also looking to restrict entry of refugees. One might think that they could set up an agency to train the refugees to build houses. Instead it seems to be a very small number making hay.

The government just seems completely useless. I can't understand why they are so awful. Why can they never find progressive solutions? Maybe cabinets need industry professionals to become ministers?

Sorry more questions than answers but I think people need to rethink attacking people like Lucas and focus on a government that cannot govern.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611866#Comment_120611866

Love it! 😂

irishproduce

That's not entirely true. There are of course some useful idiots in the mix but the vast vast majority are those grifting and pilfering a living out it in the advocacy and NGO side. What a way to sell your soul

Backstreet Moyes

Genuinely curious but where are the women?

It seems to be all men that are fleeing here.

Are women fleeing here also but we don't hear about them?

grumpyperson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611966#Comment_120611966

I'll put it this way.

If you told the people of Santry that you were going to randomly select 303 Irish men and put them in a former office building in dormitory accommodation and restricted them from working for at least five months if moved in directly. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving-country/asylum-seekers-and-refugees/the-asylum-process-in-ireland/rights-and-obligations-of-asylum-seekers-in-ireland/#:~:text=You%20can%20apply%20for%20permission,allowed%20to%20work%20without%20permission.

I think there'd be serious concerns.

I think one of the biggest problem is unsuitable accommodation, supports and facilities. Why has the government not provided a suitable center similar to City West but purpose built?

NattyO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612100#Comment_120612100

In the past, refugees were overwhelmingly women, children, and the elderly, with the young men staying behind to fight

We are now supposed to believe that fit healthy young men, arriving en masse on their own, with no sign of women, children, or elderly, are refugees.

In the past, they would have been the army the refugees were fleeing from........

0ph0rce0

In the news there they said they talked to one of the asylum seekers in Clare. He doesn't even want to be there.

Says accommodation was better than city west but they are worried about the area being isolated. Said something to the effect that lads will just up and leave.

Leo saying locals cant decide who lives in their community, but by the sounds of it if these guys aren't happy they'll just up sticks and head back to a city hub and start again till they get what they want.

WheelieKing

The country badly needs a right wing alternative for people to vote for. We have absolutely zero balance in our political system and it's going to be the death of this country long term. Unfortunately i can't see it happening until it's too late.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611935#Comment_120611935

Thanks, I agree very much this is predominantly a housing problem.

But I don't see your solution as working.

The price of new builds and first-time buys would just increase in line with whatever tax breaks are given.

Demand is too strong and private developers are the only game in town.

We need the state to build, but it will take time to get that capacity because it's been neglected for so long.

Sadly that's the mess we're in.

Build homes not hate.

hymenelectra

When the government is going full throttle on surreptitiously bussing extra people into one horse towns because they know, 100%, that Irish people don't want it...who are the government working for, exactly?

Not in Irelands interests, clearly.

They don't have a plan for next week. What about 5 years from now?

The effects of over population are to be seen on daily basis now.

We are witnessing, in real time, the unwanted creation of a racially divided, malfunctioning, overpopulated nation that's going to bring every thing youd expect it to bring.

These governments and their sucklings, hard to credit, but here they are staring us in the face.

Long Sean Silver

like it or not folks, we are witnessing the biggest movement of peoples on this planet's history.

the usual culprits of war, famine, despotism, economic hardship are to blame. but added to those we have climatic changes ie Global warming, destruction of habitats, and traditional means of making a living, due in part to pollution, soil erosion and rising sea levels/flooding.

throw into the mix social media fuelling social/material aspirations (ie they want what we got!), exponential population growth (11 billion by 2100!), and cheap/available flights and you got one heck of a queue for the exit.

this wee country will be unrecognisable in another 10 years. in fact since i grew up in rural Ireland i would argue it already has.

there aint a darn thing you me or anybody else can do about it. as the man said "get busy living , or get busy ...."

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611933#Comment_120611933

What a load of nonsense, increase in demand for gp's has been going on long before the Ukraine war.

If we take the figures already used here of 100k refugees in the last two years and 900 patients per GP. That averages as each GP having approx 18 of their 900 patients as new refugees. And we're supposed to allow too that most of these refugees are virile young men, presumably not needing much medical attention. Sorry but the numbers don't come anywhere close to meeting your argument.

It's the likes of that what'll get you called a racist, because it's hard to see any other rationalization for such rubbish.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610582#Comment_120610582

It's hard to escape the suspicion that even if the housing crisis was solved tomorrow, this thread would still be filled with reams of reasons why refugees f**k this country up.

If there was no housing crisis, they would be talking about homelessness and how we should sort that before taking on more refugees, if homelessness was sorted it would be "sure they aren't even real refugees anyway", if it was demonstrated that the vast majority of refugees having had their cases assessed were in genuine need of international aid, it would be the next employment crisis that makes people say refugees are making that worse.

Oh yeah and then even if we stopped taking in refugees then attention would turn swiftly back to the plain old migrants. It's a never-ending roulette of finding the right narrative.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166867#Comment_120166867

Idiotic comparison.

Vast majority go the legal route because they would be turned back immediately if not.

They don't have their hand out for a free gaff food and whatever is going.

They bring skills to their new country.

They don't setup tents in city centres in Sydney Boston or Vancouver.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611930#Comment_120611930

But our fiscal resources aren't stretched. Delivery of resources is, and will be anyway because our services are terribly run.

Like it or not 'brand' Ireland matters to the path we're on.

We're already open to plenty of criticism as a sort of leech state with our tax regime. Add not supporting Ukraine to that and I think it impacts more than we could theoretically benefit by reducing refugee numbers.

There's a reason the corporate world has become so politically correct. They know it matters to the majority of customers. We don't want to be on the wrong side of that.

I think the only way we could reduce refugee numbers, without a bigger negative impact, is by our leaders putting their hand up to the health and housing mess. Offering a credible plan to fix, and pausing international protection to some degree in the meantime. We all know that's not going to happen.

Otherwise we just have to live with it and not make matters worse with these awful protests.

Build homes not hate.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612100#Comment_120612100

I read somewhere that 90% of Ukrainian refugees are women and children.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612186#Comment_120612186

actually i know of plenty of lads who went to London and elsewhere and ended up in squats and living rough. most never returned home to tell of their new found "success". many ended up in prisons. most of the Irish that left had no skills, unless you consider digging holes & shovelling sh1t a skill?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612186#Comment_120612186

Irish people have left in their droves even in recent years when things got tough at home. The fact we are a relatively rich educated country, have access to the UK and EU, means we were able to do it the legal way. And they don't all bring skills to new countries either. I worked abroad in many unskilled jobs in the past. If Ireland was dirt poor with no opportunities, money or education, we'd also leave in our droves one way or another. Humans are humans.

So I wouldn't blame the migrants for taking a chance at a better life, it's easy for people to look down on them but you or I might do the same if in their shoes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611956#Comment_120611956

I assume you live in neither East Wall or DL.

But don't worry I'm sure you will get your quota wherever you are at this rate

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612223#Comment_120612223

Don't live far from EW and pass through it almost daily. Yeah I believe they're opening one up the road in Santry soon, couldn't give a f**k.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612217#Comment_120612217

Yep. 50 years ago.

We have moved on somewhat.

Young people who emigrate now are highly skilled.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612109#Comment_120612109

Apologies for reacting so aggressively to your previous post.

On it's own it looked dangerously reductionist.

I see now your opinions are more measured and while I might not agree with everything, I respect them as honest and genuine.

Build homes not hate.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612245#Comment_120612245

Lol no they're not. We've loads of bar men, labourers working in London, Australia etc. Are they highly skilled or working minimum wage jobs?

I'm not highly skilled by any means and have worked abroad for years at a time.

I just moved back from London. Go to Broadway on London Fields. There are two Irish lads no older than 35 homeless living around there that beg on Broadway every day. I doubt they're highly skilled.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612245#Comment_120612245

thankfully yes. but let's be honest we are not all the Collison Bros. we do like to be selective when reminiscing about "the Irish experience".

we were unskilled, uneducated, unwashed and disease ridden & we were despised when we first arrived in North America.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612213#Comment_120612213

This is not a thread about Ukrainans so I was not referring to Ukrainians as you already know.

Have you any statistics for those numbers for non Ukrainians?