Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

riddles

The international protection or assylum process does not work in practical reality. That is the first point to resolve.

The second point is access to social welfare - how to refine this process to ensure access to welfare is equitable for the tax payers and sustainable as a model into the future. Unemployment levels within African migrant groups must run north of 50%. Roma gypsies probably north of 99% there’s over 30k of them here now and the numbers growing who decided this is a good idea? 300/400 million alone there a year. Link the cost of crime to the criminal PPS number so it is discharged against all future welfare entitlements. Simple enough step it would seem.

A refinement of the right to shelter v right to a home. Some people achieve the latter without ever working or social contribution. Again who pays here and for how long?

Revise the notion of a social contract and what you are expected to contribute to the society you benifit from. And the sanctions for actual criminals v people who make a mistake. The current system doesn’t address the former.

Non nationals who are engaged in criminality should be issued with expulsion orders. We are seeing increasing attacks on people in public facing roles from a cohort disconnected from the concept of respect equality and personal responsibility. Something most learn in the home but sadly no more.

If the systemic topics are dealt with in a calm non hysteric or indeed warped RTE weird prism view we have some chance.

I’m not optimistic seems like policy at an EU level to erode living standards and erase social justice. The current political system doesn’t reward change - it rewards apathy and societal decline.

We have had no net new hospital beds since the year 2000 even though populations grown by 1 million plus - we are now seeing the challenge accessing school places which was a predictable outcome. There is also no discussion on what planning needs to happen when our tax payer ratio drops from 5 to 1 currently to 2 to 1 in twenty years time.

Cody montana

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190129#Comment_120190129

This is garbage though.

The country isn’t falling apart at the seams.

Cody montana

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190227#Comment_120190227

It has a lot to do with the European Union though.

riddles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190449#Comment_120190449

We have an unsustainable economy - your view of societal decline is painted by your current living standards and changed as these decline.

Cody montana

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190478#Comment_120190478

How have we an unsustainable economy and what’s this got to do with refugees?

maebee

Illegal immigration being discussed on Newstalk now.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190199#Comment_120190199

Exactly this, it is akin to beggars complaining other beggars are crowding their lucrative spots.

Boggles

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41062397.html

Protesters had earlier shouted abuse at a man who was trying to bring his wife to hospital when he asked them to move their initial blockade of a road into Finglas.

The man had been attempting to bring his wife for kidney dialysis when he got caught in a traffic jam caused by the demonstrators. 

When he left his car to confront them, he was met with verbal abuse from some of the protestors, who could be heard shouting “fat bastard” at the man and “you’re either with us or against us”.

A woman who also got out of her car to say she was late for work, was called a “slut” and told to “fúck off”.

One of the protestors was openly carrying a placard with the Nazi swastika sign

Next level scum.

The man who described himself as an organiser of the demonstration insisted those present were not racist.

😕

Bobtheman

https://gript.ie/the-fine-gael-blues/

Some interesting comments on the refugee issue.

As to the above - I'm against any protest in front of migrants. Any protest should be outside the Dáil or Department of Justice.

Migrants are vulnerable people.

Protests should be aimed at the system not the people.

I'd also be careful to take initial reports of Protests. We saw what's happened with Hollands report unravelling in the Irish Times

jmayo

I just love how those for now as good as open borders shytology conflate legitimate immigrants from other EU countries or VISA approved immigrants from outside EU with primarily a bunch of lads from a couple of countries in Eastern Europe, Middle East, Central Asia, North Africa, the Horn of Africa and a bunch of people from a particular country in Sub Saharan Africa who have arrived here claiming asylum, often now with no documentation at all.

One set of people are fellow EU citizens or VISA holder with a right to live and work here.

The other are primarily a bunch of freeloaders on the make.

One set do indeed help make the country more productive because they often fill necessary roles in employment market.

The other just adds extra costs to the state welfare, education, healthcare, housing bills.

Only the vested interests that want to continue the charade mix up the two groups.

screamer

People are concerned and frightened. I’m seeing terrible reports of crimes that are not being reported in the mainstream media. I’ve no idea how true they are, but it frightens me. Whenever you hear Larry Murphys name people go into overdrive about where he is, so fearful of him. but we are letting total strangers into our country unvetted. They could have been doing all sorts of crime in their home countries and land in here then, claiming asylum who knows? I’m just saying we have no clue, and we are foolish, it is little wonder to me that people are afraid. Aside from that, there is the additional pressure on our systems that were barely fit for purpose before that are now creaking at the seams. The more the mainstream media dismiss people’s concerns, make them out to be lunatic right wingers or god forbid, racist, the more people will fear and will cling to their beliefs. We are nuts in this country, totally consumed about what others think of us, where to be called a racist is nearly the worst thing possible. We need to cop on and have some very honest conversations (and mainstream media glossing over things is not helping) about how we balance our obligations to others with our obligations to ourselves. We can help, we should help, but there’s a right way and a wrong way, and the system needs overhauling and the politicians need to have some guts.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191085#Comment_120191085

You're "seeing terrible reports of crimes that are not being reported"

Read that back to yourself. Are you sure you're not talking about rumours?

Potatoeman

https://www.thejournal.ie/asylum-seeker-protests-dublin-5982890-Jan2023/

So the government open dp centers in areas without planning permission and people cant protest in their own neighbourhood? Maybe if they had a public consultation they wouldn’t have these issues and not sneak them in under the cover of darkness. The planned centers in wealthy south side areas were shot down pretty quickly. I guess they are all racists too. Absolute staggering level of incompetence and arrogance from the government.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191219#Comment_120191219

 Maybe if they had a public consultation they wouldn’t have these issues and not sneak them in under the cover of darkness.

Wouldn't they? Or would they end up with nowhere to house asylum seekers as every 'community group' group they consult with tells them firmly NIMBY!

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191219#Comment_120191219

This was always coming. Some of the scrots outside these accomodation centers howling invective and bile are sailing very close to the wind. There will be vulernerable people in every single one of these centres. A baying mob does f*ckall for anything.

If people have "genuine local concerns", organise, get your town hall meeting with the relevant minister or official and press your concerns instead of behaving like brownshirts on Kristallnacht (yes I went there, and no, some of these scumbags aren't too far off it).

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191254#Comment_120191254

So everyone doesn’t want this? Then why are all the protesters called a small group of far right extremists? The narrative is extremely weak.

A refugee is required to claim asylum in the first country they enter, not pass through multiple safe countries with the aim of getting the the country with the softest rules and best welfare. The more the system is played the angrier people will get.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191286#Comment_120191286

The scumbags are the ones destroying their documentation and playing the refugee system like a fiddle. I don’t give a dam about them.

Cody montana

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190915#Comment_120190915

Absolute scum.

Thankfully these people are the minority.

gmisk

Ha saw this...pretty spot on!

screamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191184#Comment_120191184

Well you see, with the way the mainstream media is behaving, I’m thinking just because it’s not reported on doesn’t mean it’s a rumour. They do seem to have some very clear agendas, especially rte. Again back to my point on honesty being needed on all sides.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191304#Comment_120191304

You're firmly on the side of the North Face jacket brigade foaming at the mouth chanting "get them out" I see.

Those people are the bottom of the barrell of Irish society. They'd be living miserable unfulfilled lives with or without immigrants, and de gubberment or George Soros have nothing to do with it.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191319#Comment_120191319

Come with evidence or get up the yard. You're peddling rumour, so don't make a joke of yourself invoking honesty.

You want RTE to start reporting on every cock and bull whatsapp rumour shared by some far-right dope who has a time-share in Mountjoy or mammy's group where they wear pajamas all day? That's not journalism. Get your head screwed on.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191318#Comment_120191318

It's quite amusing to see the rabid defenders of the social welfare class, suddenly start mocking them for being on the dole, for daring to have views that don't align with theirs. It's not too different than African Americans who start getting called Uncle Tom's by white progressives the minute they signal any dissent against their views. It's very clear that the "little people" only matter when they sing from the right hymn sheet.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191219#Comment_120191219

Is it reasonble to identify some of the protestors and organise counter protests outside their houses? They could have people waiting outside their door shouting at them every time they go outside? I don't think they could complain, since they are doing the exact same thing.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191356#Comment_120191356

It doens't matter what strata of society you come from, if you're outside a refugee centre spewing bile intimidating people you're a scrot - and I don't care what tax bracket (or none) you are in.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191379#Comment_120191379

I was responding to someone who was mocking the jobless, you were not being accused of anything.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191388#Comment_120191388

The point stands. If you elect to stand outside a refugee centre screaming obscenities and chanting "get them out" you've crossed a line, you're firmly a scumbag.

The kid gloves need to come off with this activity. If communities want to be heard about concerns, by all means, we are a democracy, get your consultations and town hall meeting with officials (there's no guarantee they'll walk away 100% satisfied however) - but a rent a mob of far rights troglydytes organised on WhatsApp from far and wide stirring trouble can f*ck off. The State is looking like they're going to get serious with these idiots. And it's not past time.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191356#Comment_120191356

I am not a rabid defender of the "social welfare class" though quite the opposite.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191379#Comment_120191379

lol touched a nerve or what - you werent even being referred to but clearly you share those opinions as it seemed to hit you pretty hard

Also what "refugee centre"? You of all people should know the difference between a refugee and an asylum seeker. Those people are asylum seekers, yet to be granted asylum (many of them will be refused too). In that light theres nothing wrong with protesting about the abuse of the asylum process by bogus seekers.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191412#Comment_120191412

So you agree the water protestors in Jobstown and the ones calling Michael D a midget parasites are vile scrotes and scumbags?

Finally we agree on something.

Although I do remember at the time most here agreed with them and went out of their way to support their actions against da gubberment…

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191422#Comment_120191422

Split hairs about the distinction between asylum seeker and refugee all you want, the people outside braying are low-lives.

My nerves remain untouched, your concern should probably turned upon yourself with your own pecadillos that see you going off on mad ones on the regular.

Kyokushin Grappler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190217#Comment_120190217

The UN do something useful and productive? perish the thought.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191435#Comment_120191435

The Jobstown protests were disgusting, I'm on record here saying as much so I don't know where you're coming from on this. They were full-value for their prosecution.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191438#Comment_120191438

Economic migrants are not refugees, and as they take up scarce resource from those who really need them (those fleeing from actual persecution) - they do not deserve any sympathies. Its not split hairs, its a massive distinction. This is why the asylum process exists in the first place, to filter the chancers from those in need.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191509#Comment_120191509

I'll broaden my point further: Anyone who gathers a mob outside where people go down to sleep at night, spewing bile and and chanting get them out is an utter scumbag.

On the determination point, some in these centres will be granted refugee status, some will not. You don't have a single bean if that number will be 1% or 100%. And it doesn't matter a jot how many will be successful in their claim for the purposes of the discussion, the scumbags outside should clear-off. You're merely softpeddling the behaviour.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191412#Comment_120191412

Why shouldn't communities be satisfied with the outcome? Why should something they don't want be imposed on them?

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191535#Comment_120191535

Because I don't get to choose my neighbours, I don't get to choose what gets built or doesn't get built in my vicinity, I can make my observations and have my say in a democracy, but no one individual (or indeed self-appointed concerned citizens who pretend they represent the whole community) gets to decree what does or doesn't happen at the end of the day.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189960#Comment_120189960

Not so much “ lies “ as progressives dogma , both white guilt and the unconditional positivity of diversity are key tenets of WOKE thought , it doesn’t matter if those claiming asylum are really seeking better economic conditions and we the white Irish have an obligation to feed and clothe the people of the developing world

notice how the inaccuracies of the recent Kitty Holland story are being staunchly defended by her colleagues and the broader progressive movement, the actual truth is not that important just as the truth about economic migrants posing as refugees is also something which isn’t important

Backstreet Moyes

We are told by the left that most people are in favor of this and polls and a referendum would show this.

If this is the case then why are the government not consulting communities before they drop people into the community without consultation.

If we are to believe the left then wouldn't most communities welcome them?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191558#Comment_120191558

But you can choose to a certain extent what does or doesnt get built in the vicinity. Its part of the planning process.

Planned developments must be considerate of the locality and whether it is suitable or not. Dumping 100+ single men with limited english and no employment prospects in an area is not exactly good planning.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191603#Comment_120191603

Incorrect, you make observations and that's the end of it. The planning process does the rest.

In discreet circumstances you may make a high High Court appeal for a Judicial Review on an An Bord Pleanala decision on a point of law. "I don't like immigrants" is not a point of law.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191603#Comment_120191603

Dumping 100+ single men with limited english and no employment prospects in an area is not exactly good planning.

There was a video posted earlier in the thread of one of these men trying to explain his situation to some of these "heroes".

Lets just say it wasn't him with limited English skills.

😂

Nosler

People have to get over the idea that major politicians and mass media are on their side....

In the UK we had ex Prime Minister Gordon Brown canvassing for votes before a General Election. Some woman said to him that she thought there were too many immigrants in the country. Gordon Brown agreed with her and thanked her and got back in his car.

He forgot he had a microphone on and started complaining that she was a "bigoted woman".

You really think politicians care what they do to irish communities? As long as people vote FFFG nothing will change.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191623#Comment_120191623

The planning process is not followed for change of use of hotels and offices into asylum accommodation - so residents are right to feel aggrieved, and are entitled to air their grievances with the state and the system for not consulting them

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191648#Comment_120191648

They are entitled to take a High Court case to test if that is illegal or not. If the state is empowered to do it, then they are empowered to do it. This is the adult world, no one person or interest group gets to say who their neighbours are, what gets built, if there are traffic lights in a certain place or not etc etc etc ad nauseum.

And they may air their greivances with officials in consultations. Standing outside a place where people sleep like a 1930s anti-semetic mob is sh*tbag behaviour.

boetstark

Thank you. About time somebody called this for what it is. These are no more genuine asylum seekers than I am. They are economic refugees hoping from country to country until they find the easiest system to abuse.

No wonder we are called treasure Island and it was an African that toldthat that.

Our health is creaking at the seams requiring more financial investment in staff and infrastructure. Charities such as Laura Lynn childrens hospice are struggling for private funding.

But our idiotic governmentare spending millions on accomodating freeloaders from god knows where and flipping cycle lanes everywhere.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191701#Comment_120191701

Am I correct in thinking you're from South Africa? There may be many in the number that don't want you here either by the way. Ireland is full innit?

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191558#Comment_120191558

Not individuals, but absolutely communities should have a say what happens in their community. This is something that they normally get a chance to through the planning process. At the moment no one is getting a chance to make any observations or comments before a site is chosen.

It's coming down as high handed decrees, fait accomplis from government without any community input into the process. And it's clear why - they don't want to give people a chance to oppose because no one wants these in their area.

And the only reason there are so many international protection applicants is because of the government removed the restrictions on work after a few months, generous social supports and provide accommodation with a promise of own door to come.

The system wouldn't be under near as much pressure, and far fewer accommodation centres would be required if those with destroyed documents were turned away, those with claims were processed quickly and if we didn't allow the appeals system to be abused.

This is all on top of providing for Ukrainians at a level that exceeds many of our peers.

Potatoeman

The government have bypassed the planning process. They are responsible for the result. People are entitled to protest in their own area.

Funny how Green Party members in Dublin block houses being built in the West coast. I suppose when you are in the inner circle the rules don’t apply to you.

Sallywag37

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191184#Comment_120191184

Yes she is talking about rumours, because unless there's other evidence of them, that's what unreported crimes turn into. The refusal to report crime by certain parties is an injustice in itself and there are various negative consequences that flow from it, including an increased sense of distrust with the media, the State and the general environment, not to mention the justifiable resentment that occurs when one group is held to account for criminal activity and another gets a blind-eye-style free pass.

The recent criminal activity in Cherry Orchard is a good case in point. Compare that national coverage with the dead silence when several hundred first generation Irish born citizens of African migrants surrounded elderly Irish people chanting "Fcuk you white people" while trying to smash their way into the Spar shop where George Nkencho had gone on his violent knife wielding rampage. I watched footage of elderly people scattering, one woman running for her car, surrounded when she got there. The shop shutters were pulled down to protect the customers and staff.

The former ended up all over the 6-One news, the latter ended up all over social media, and this really is where the media arm of the state is showing a reckless disregard for balance and fairness along with an almost childlike sense of naiveté. The days of turning on the TV at 6pm to find out what's going on in the world are long gone. We know what's going on in the world, and when we see large chunks of it missing from the mainstream we know we're being lied to. RTE's calculated omissions provoke resentment, fear, and the natural question: what else are they hiding from us?