Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191728#Comment_120191728

Lets be real, there would be zero centres anywhere if we allowed the noisy minority have sway. The government has a duty to accomodate in so far is it can people, if you asked them privately, I'm sure they'd tell you they'd rather numbers were much lower than they are, and that nobody destroyed documents coming off a plane (in fact it's no secret they'd rather people didn't destroy documents). You can't return people to a country without travel documentation, no one will recieve them - that's a hard legal fact, and that's true of every country. The option is emergency accomodation or massive tent cities like you see in Paris (anyone want to put their hands up for that option?).

Whether they should have been allowed board the plane in the first instance is a separate matter. We don't have immigration desks in Charles De Amsterdam / Frankfurt.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191758#Comment_120191758

Yes, rumours peddled by dribbling morons on WhatsApp. We already had one this week where the Gardai had to come out and tell people that it was b*llshit (that migrants were responsible). And let's be honest, these crackpots don't give a sh*t about the safety of women, if they did, they'd be wandering from house to house in their own estates with baseball bats, because 9 out of 10 perpetrators of sexual offences are done by those known to and close to the victim. They'd need to start beating themselves over the head with baseball bats before they got around to migrants.

Pony up the evidence or on your way.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191762#Comment_120191762

If they are arriving on a plane without documents then put them back on the plane. The airline should take responsibility or its plane is impounded. Pure and simple

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191839#Comment_120191839

I think that’s what happens in America.

Incorrect documentation and they help you with a fare back on the plane.

The_Kew_Tour

The lies by the far right are a disgrace. Utter disgrace. These scum could have jeopardised that case and have done so to some degree.

But don't forget NGOs have lied through their teeth too at times,like that example that was posted here of a man who said he was beaten up by 7 Bouncers. Turned out be total BS. Not a scratch on the lad and to post it on twitter as gospel.

Same with Irish Times lady this week who lied about the "beatings"

These extremes are both the same just different names.

It helps nobody. It's pathetic from both sides. Sadly their voices are loudest and again people in middle have no voice.

Bobtheman

To be fair to the government they are only taking people with kids at present

But I say it again - the government needs to separate facts from fiction.

Otherwise social media will continue to be peoples main source of information

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191845#Comment_120191845

Might even put you in guantamano if they don't like the look of ya. They won't let ya in anyway!

Backstreet Moyes

Has anyone been able yet to list out the positives of illegal immigration to Ireland?

I see several posters making excuses for it but I don't think I have seen them provide reasons why ireland benefits.

I don't believe in a zero refugee policy, only on illegals.

So the people here making excuses to allow illegal immigration, why are you in favor of it?

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191762#Comment_120191762

It's nonsense. There are plenty of other countries that don't tolerate this bs. Australia sends you to the back of the line if you pull this stunt with them for example.

Jinglejangle69

So we’re told all the ones arriving with no documentation have to be processed and see if they can claim asylum.

We’re then told if they are denied then…….????

Fill in the blank?

What happens then????

They are never leaving Ireland regardless if they are denied or not.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191718#Comment_120191718

Did they come on a VISA and are filling a necessary employment role (or come as partner that met that criteria) or did they end up in Europe from Africa and then hop on ferries/planes to get here and declare that they wanted asylum and handouts ?

Sallywag37

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191791#Comment_120191791

I don't know all the details in the situation you're talking about so I won't comment. I do know though that during the Covid 19 lockdowns - when Irish anti-lockdown protesters were beaten by Gardai on the streets - thousands of young people, mainly African-Irish, were given a special exemption from the rule of law and allowed to march through our city streets, protesting the death of a man who'd smashed a shopkeepers face in and attempted to stab him and numerous others.

Reality, sanity, and the impositions of a global pandemic were all suspended to cater to one group of people - while the fathers of Ireland were not allowed to attend their own children's births, the mothers of Ireland were forced to give birth alone, and the families of Ireland were forced to grieve from a distance without the dignity or closure of attending any funeral that took place during that time.

If you think this represents balance, fairness or equality in society, pony up your evidence or go on your way.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191896#Comment_120191896

Hate to break it to you, but if you land at Sydney Airport and destroy your passport before immigration, they are not putting you back on a return flight to anywhere. Airlines won't allow anyone sans passport on an international flight because the entire flight is uninsured if they do.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191958#Comment_120191958

What do they do with them?

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191966#Comment_120191966

Do what we do- their version of direct provision, a few appeals and then they go sod it u can stay. You can now bring your family over on family repatriation and we'll house them too.

Every country does this, don't they?!!

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191958#Comment_120191958

They won't. Everyone turning up in Dublin airport has already been identified though and you can tell these people that they are not getting placed in the community and will not be eligible for work until they identify themselves.

The problem stops overnight. Guaranteed.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192054#Comment_120192054

Fook that.

You have no documentation or fake documents when you land - straight to jail

Airline's manifest is cross checked, people matched and sent back.

Can't be matched - sent to labour camp on offshore island and stay until idetify onesself and then deported.

Why should they get to work if they eventually identify themselves?

They didn't go through VISA program, they tried to enter country without documentation or with fake documentation.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191974#Comment_120191974

You can spit invective all you want, I posted a fact. There is not an airline on earth that will take off with an uninsured risk on board. For an international flight, if there is no passport inspected at the boarding gate with the attendant corroborated biometric information inputted for the relevant flight, they are not going on board. The entire flight becomes uninsurable. That's as true for Australia as it is Ireland.

The user posted some nonsense about Australia as if they have Robocop at immigration gates billy clubbing people back onto a plane if they have destroyed their passport. That's nonsense.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191758#Comment_120191758

Yes she is talking about rumours, because unless there's other evidence of them, that's what unreported crimes turn into

Nope, an unreported crime is an unreported crime.

A rumour is a rumour.

mammychicken

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190421#Comment_120190421

This 100 times

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192167#Comment_120192167

That not what I said. I said those that turn up without documents go to the back of the line.

What is undoubtedly true is that a far far tougher line on people presenting without documents could be taken. But it's not and that's due to policy.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192217#Comment_120192217

What is undoubtedly true is that a far far tougher line on people presenting without documents could be taken

What would that look like in practical terms?

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192167#Comment_120192167

Insurance you say?

seenitall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192306#Comment_120192306

What kind of BS is this now? The main problem is not that they have no documentation on boarding, the main problem is that they don’t have it on landing.

Another instance of tinkering at the edges of a problem and calling it a solution, no doubt.

Sallywag37

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192197#Comment_120192197

When there's photographic and video evidence forwarded countless thousands of times, 'rumours' are no longer rumours. They are evidenced facts, and that they are ignored by the mainstream is a contemptible dereliction of duty. People need to see, hear and experience a sense of fair play from their mainstream journalists, presenters and broadcasters. Media strategies that deliberately deny even-handed reporting break the journalistic code of ethics people sign up to when they enter that profession, and are responsible for breeding inevitable resentment and distrust among the public. It is very dangerous and is to the broad scale detriment of society. I think this is an area we could probably do with some new legislation to regulate, since the traditional journalistic code of ethics is clearly no longer respected from within.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192306#Comment_120192306

Correct.

"Correct documentation" in this context refers to an airline or groundstaff permitting a visa-required non EU national on an Ireland bound flight without the correct visa in ignorance. It makes no reference to passports. They know they're not supposed to permit them board without a passport, and they don't because they're not stupid.

When was the last time you boarded a flight to Ireland without your passport being checked at the gate*? I'll give you a hint, you haven't.

*UK origin flights excepted obviously

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190410#Comment_120190410

Wow it’s like you walked around town and, for the most part, saw people who were in their down time.

What contribution are you to society on your day off with your family next to the Liffy or at lunch over coffee? Are Uber cyclists not contributing anything?

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192351#Comment_120192351

What exactly are you talking about? What do you want reported that you think isn't being reported?

All you're blathering on about is guff on WhatsApp and you expect it to hit the front of all the papers the next morning because you can't distinguish between rumour and corroborated fact.

It's no wonder there's an extremely strong correlation between anti vax muppets and the latest surge in right wing sentiment. Same credulity, same reliance on uncorroborated guff on social media, same low-IQ nonsense, and same "everyone is out to get me" conspiratorial psychosis.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191758#Comment_120191758

Sounds tinfoily

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192355#Comment_120192355

What airline goes UK to Ireland without checking passports at the gate?

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192464#Comment_120192464

Off the top of my head I've flown via Heathrow with Aer Lingus with my driving licence as ID.

For whatever reason Ryanair tends to require passport across the board, but they're not required to by law. We're a common travel area.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192483#Comment_120192483

Did you not say airlines won’t allow passengers on board a plane without a passport for insurance reasons?

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192502#Comment_120192502

Between required immigration destinations internationally yes, 100 percent the airline needs to ensure everyone is boarding with a passport for insurance reasons. Think about this for a second, Virgin Atlantic lets a Richard Reid on board a flight to NY with a pair of ticking Jordans and they didn't even check his passport or know he was on board. What do you think the insurance company is going to say?

Obviously internal flights and common travel areas aren't passport required.

mykrodot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192448#Comment_120192448

Wrong.

This is being picked up finally by mainstream media. Pat Kenny addressed it again today, 40% of IP migrants coming here have destroyed their documents. Pat is finally waking up. Likewise the Irish Times printed a very good letter yesterday from a concerned and very articulate citizen saying they are not right wing, they are concerned but that any of us who are concerned are being called Right Wing.

So it both the Irish Times and Pat Kenny are starting to see what is happening here and a huge amount of ordinary citizens are trying to be heard, trying to ask questions, wondering where this is going............then its not "blather" or "guff".

I am 60, I am boarding school educated, have a degree, worked in finance most of my life...........not a life long "doler" and I am hugely concerned and worried and even angry at this stage at being tarred as Right Wing just because I am asking questions. I am in Kerry but believe me if I lived closer to Mallow, or Ballymun, Lismore, Finglas.......I would be out marching too!

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192561#Comment_120192561

What are you talking about? The documentation destruction issue is widely reported, and you're even referencing the media talking about it today for goodness sake.

So what exactly is being hidden from you by the dastardly media?

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120191847#Comment_120191847

The people in the middle are having to go to protests organised by far right idiots because the government and media won't give them a voice.

The far left are giving the people in the middle no voice and basicslly telling them to suck it up and if you have no voice you will go to someone who gives you a voice.

The left are driving the people in the middle towards people in the right.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192618#Comment_120192618

I'm one of those in the middle. And the middle have always had a voice. If 'normal' people are going to far right protests they're either getting suckered or they always harboured anti immigrant sentiment and just now feel emboldened.

If they have an issue, the avenue isn't standing outside a building screaming obscenenties demanding people be hauled out on the street.

If people are present when all of that is going down and they don't either speak up or walk away, they're no sort of middle ground I recognise.

There is an avenue for people to express their concerns, but quite honestly, they need to articulate what they want. "I don't want immigrants near me" isn't going to get much of a hearing and nor should it.

The same thing with the passport destruction issue. I don't like it, and frankly I don't think people doing it should be rewarded - but we have to deal with reality, if a passenger does it, we can't put him/her on a plane, because the airline won't allow them.

Throwing a tantrum about that fact doesn't change it. It happens to other states as well, and they have to deal with it just as we do.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192351#Comment_120192351

You want to legislate "Citizen Journalists"?

Fair enough.

I can just imagine the batshít they would peddle if that were enacted.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192618#Comment_120192618

There is no one driving anyone to behave like feral scum.

That's on them.

If they are attending "protests" based on hearsay and loose talk organised by criminals and fúckwits that's on them.

There is literally no excuse.

Subzero3

We don't have to support Ukrianinans anymore then we have to support Yemenis or Syrians who are being bombed as much....by European allies.

Feisar

Surely a photo of a passport before a plane departs is the simple solution to people destroying IDs?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192750#Comment_120192750

Yeah I am used to that procedure with my passport through US customs and IDK how it is euro travelers are managing to confuse everyone by allegedly destroying their documents mid flight. I’m photographed, the passport is scanned, etc. how is the planes passenger manifest not able to figure this out? There should be triplicates of their travel visas.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192727#Comment_120192727

There's no excuse that communities are not told on advance what is happening. And there is no excuse for imposing these centres on some communities but not others.

Funny that the residents of the wealthiest areas, the areas that champion diversity are none too keen to have it in their own back garden.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192788#Comment_120192788

But you agree there is absolutely no excuse for acting like feral scum?

Yurt2

More scrotes in Finglas last night in maks urging to "burn them out". And the mood music around the protests about "unvetted migrant males"?? Give me a break. The real criminals making themselves known now.

I'd have those scumbags in tents in the Curragh and any immigrant you can rustle up in their council home.

Some hard questions to be asked in these communities if they want their area to be hijacked by these sh*tbags.

Decision time.

minimary

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192781#Comment_120192781

The Schengen countries and the UK are each bringing in a system similar to ESTA where travellers from Visa free countries will be expected to get pre clearance before flying. Ireland is not a party to either of these, so as always will be the soft touch

https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/smart-borders/european-travel-information-authorisation-system_en

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/destinations/youll-soon-need-to-obtain-official-permission-to-enter-the-uk.html

The Schengen countries are also bringing in an entry and exit system, so your passport is scanned when you enter and when you leave so they will know how many people are overstaying etc was supposed to be in place by May but is now not expected until the end of 2023 https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/01/18/new-eu-border-controls-delayed-until-end-of-2023-how-will-the-ees-affect-travellers

"The Entry-Exit System will be an automated registration system for UK and other non-EU travellers who don’t require a visa to enter the EU.

Travellers will need to scan their passports or other travel document at a self-service kiosk each time they cross an EU external border. It will not apply to legal residents or those with long stay visas.

The system will register the traveller’s name, biometric data, and the date and place of entry and exit. Facial Scans and fingerprint data will be retained for three years after each trip."

hotmail.com

These protests could lead to greater focus on those unemployed for years and years.

enricoh

180k refugees here by year end government officials estimate. Game over for Ireland.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0202/1353426-refugee-prediction/

Sallywag37

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192448#Comment_120192448

I can distinguish between rumour and the evidence of my own eyes and I think the same is true for most people.

Sallywag37

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192457#Comment_120192457

As long as the behaviour I've described is only apparent to the people who have to live alongside it, and it's not reported in the mainstream news, this is a perfectly natural assumption to make.