Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215570#Comment_120215570

You'd say that's a fair comment on the face of it but the NGO' etcetera have been standing up for bogus asylum seekers for a long long time - for example by concealing or omitting to state the reasons why someone might be in direct provision for years while telling us of yet another hard luck story. The reason is that they are still there is that they have already been found to be bogus and are in rounds of appeals and judicial reviews.

There is no reason for someone to destroy their documents when they are presenting to Irish immigration unless your aim is to frustrate the process. Yet, silence from our do gooders.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215570#Comment_120215570

Anybody destroying their documents before landing in Ireland is doing so because they have something to hide.

Allowing these people into the country knowing they've deliberately destroyed their passports en route is criminal negligence on the part of our government and authorities.

Overheal

I can't foresee a legitimate reason for anyone, nevermind an NGO, would need to support that kind of papers destruction. It's fraud.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but I'm not sure what the good even is, of committing that degree of fraud at the late stage of getting aboard an international flight. The goal is not to accelerate the number of undocumented persons, that's a legitimate state security, and state sovereignty concern.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215503#Comment_120215503

I posted upthread. I flew Kerry to Dublin last week, and return. I was asked for a passport or driving licence by security )or customs, I couldn't be sure). But there was no way I was being left walk off a flight arriving at either Kerry (from Dublin) or Dublin (from Kerry) without some form of iD. It's boggling what's happening here.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216025#Comment_120216025

It is massive state security concern and irish people should be told what is going on by the media.

We are allowing people into the country who could be fleeing another country for sexual assault or murder or any other charges.

We are leaving these people roam the streets when we have no Idea of who they are.

It is scandalous and the media should be questioning why the government are allowing these people into Ireland.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216122#Comment_120216122

There's no need to take things to 11 with rhetoric that, ultimately is abused to regard anyone fleeing another country as someone who is 'roaming the streets for sexual assault and murder etc.'

The range for why someone might want to destroy their documents is potentially vast, and a lot of it is probably very simple to explain (people tell them to, they're scared and confused, and definitely not multinational lawyers, so they did). So it's unfair, and, totally unreasonable or necessary, to drive off of the extreme - Ireland has already seen how that boils over into protests and rights and attacks. Can handle this like adults: everyone who got on a plane with documentation needs to come off the plane with documentation, state sovereignty and population accountability issue, basic prosecution of fraud issue; ditch the tropisms and demagoguery imho.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216232#Comment_120216232

Please give me a list of the potentially vast reasons so we can review them.

People tell them, who would tell them and why?

When it comes to the safety of irish citizens it is not unfair or unreasonable to suggest extreme scenarios.

Men are coming here illegally and deliberately destroying documentation so they have something to hide.

What exactly is extreme about thinking these people are possibly fleeing other countries where they committed crimes.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215974#Comment_120215974

that's because the do gooders don't exist.

the NGOS simply state the facts of the situation as they know them.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216004#Comment_120216004

some yes, anyone/all? there is no evidence for this.

plenty of reasons why one may destroy their documents, and that is assuming it is as wide spread as claimed.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216310#Comment_120216310

What exactly is extreme about thinking these people are possibly fleeing other countries where they committed crimes.

It's amazing how a few years of conditioning can invert reality. It's not so long ago that the whole world would have agreed that having open borders was extremism of the worst kind. It was a fantasy like view that usually didn't leave the halls of academia; spouted by naive students and a few adults who should have known better. Yet now, anyone who questions these polices is framed as radical, labeled with all the negative labels that can be found.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216383#Comment_120216383

Your lack or scepticism is admirable.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216416#Comment_120216416

As opposed to baseless confidence in paranoid delusion

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216310#Comment_120216310

You're alleging only men have destroyed documents? I assume you have evidence of that?

slay55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120214034#Comment_120214034

Makes you wonder if they are destroying their passports in flight or allowed on by some of these countries to board without

easy way to get rid and pass it on to another country with backward immigration checks - like Ireland

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216431#Comment_120216431

No videos to post?

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216465#Comment_120216465

Probably not even destroyed. The staff don't check their bags. They just take their word and get them signed onto social welfare.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216465#Comment_120216465

Some pro immigration do gooder on Matt cooper just claimed that’s a lie and the smugglers travel with them on the plane and take back the false documents before immigration in Dublin airport.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216437#Comment_120216437

I did not say only men destroyed documents.

Can you point out where I said men only?

Are you going to address my original post and not make up things I didn't say to avoid the questions.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216565#Comment_120216565

So that’s ok then lol, Matt asked him if we could put a limit and he answered no without mentioning the Lisbon treaty we signed up to gave us a derogation to allow us to say we can’t take any more.

I can’t understand why no one brings the Lisbon treaty up, either we were lied to when voting or our Government just decided to not exercise our right to say sorry we only have so many hotels available

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216538#Comment_120216538

context?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216544#Comment_120216544

"Probably" doing a lot of heavy lifting on this cantilever.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216570#Comment_120216570

"Men are coming here illegally and deliberately destroying documentation so they have something to hide."

Why was it necessary to single out men then?

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216628#Comment_120216628

The context is that you like flooding threads with American videos.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216634#Comment_120216634

Okay so we can agree I did not state men only like you claimed.

Now can you respond to my original questions instead of making up something to avoid the questions.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216762#Comment_120216762

Why single out men, then?

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216777#Comment_120216777

Okay it is clear to me and everyone else that you cannot answer the questions.

I won't drag the thread of topic and bore others.

If you want to answer my previous questions I am happy to engage otherwise I will not be responding to you.

US3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216465#Comment_120216465

The passports aren't being destroyed, there's another man on the plan that minds the passports. There was a case recently where a flight from France to Dublin had 9 asylum seekers with no passports on the plane and some fella on the plane was found with the 9 passports in his bag. He got 5 years prison for it if I remember correctly.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216811#Comment_120216811

Let's do this again from the top so, so you'll have no further conniptions about answering the questions as we're being consistent with one another:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216310#Comment_120216310

Please give me a list of the potentially vast reasons so we can review them.

Respectfully, no. I already gave you one. You supplied other, extreme, fearmongering examples. You can fill in the range with analog interpolation.

When it comes to the safety of irish citizens it is not unfair or unreasonable to suggest extreme scenarios.

Yes, it is unreasonable, I just explained why - illegal violence against people who don't deserve those "extreme scenarios" being projected onto those individuals as allegations. Riots, protests, etc.; leave the extreme-end, paranoid delusions to the State security apparatus to do in an adult manner, behind closed doors, without hysteria.

Men are coming here illegally and deliberately destroying documentation so they have something to hide.

Why do you single out men?

What exactly is extreme about thinking these people are possibly fleeing other countries where they committed crimes.

Applying it in such a hysterical and broadstroke fashion is leading to violence and criminal activity of its own. Defeating the purpose of such "thinking."

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216372#Comment_120216372

And takes the large salaries the government pays them in "grants"

enricoh

What right wing nutjobs are saying Ireland is a soft touch?! Not a bit of it- 3 lads were returned to sender, eu address unknown last year. They'll be taking their chances with the Brits n Rwanda instead when this filters out!

The Irish Times: Only three people transferred by State to other EU countries last year under Dublin Regulation on asylum claims.

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/02/07/three-people-transferred-to-other-states-in-2022-says-department-of-justice/

Galwayguy35

Labour proving again last night on The Tonight Show why most of the country despises them, one of them was on the panel and doesn't think the Gardai checking arrivals for passports is a good idea.

But sure that is no surprise at all, O Riordain was saying the same thing a few days ago.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217690#Comment_120217690

Comment/opinion screenshot taken as fact, not even a link to the article?

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216414#Comment_120216414

It’s truly remarkable how quick the far left have gotten a complete strangle hold on culture and society. If you had said this would be happening now 15, even 10 years ago you’d be dismissed as a complete nutter.

US3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217780#Comment_120217780

And they say FF and FG are right of center 😂

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217780#Comment_120217780

It's really just been an evolution to be honest. Left leaning journalism really started here in the 80's with a few writers, and as they rose through the ranks they brought in more like minded people. You now have a situation where one school of thought is not just dominant but is now almost outright universal. While you'll get the odd conservative for the token op-ed, to give the impression of balance, it would be a career ender these days in Ireland to be outed as a young right leaning staffer journalist.

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217829#Comment_120217829

Journalism is only one facet of society though.

It’s not just the media. Politics, academia, big business have all become completely dominated by that one school of thought.

buzzerxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217799#Comment_120217799

He is not right of centre, he is centre, hit the bullseye with his comment. 😂

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217829#Comment_120217829

Left leaning journalism really started here in the 80's

Centuries earlier. Martin Luther, eg. 'leftist journalist.' October 31st, 1517. He had quite a lot to commit to writing about the abuses of the church. Or Johannes Gutenberg, and the press itself. And I believe Ireland had centuries of leftist journalists that opposed british rule. Rather, journalism just went mainstream with the rise of the Information Age, in the 80s, 'the left' was always an inherent part of it.

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217799#Comment_120217799

FFG are nowhere near right of centre and haven’t been for nigh on 25 years.

minimary

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217719#Comment_120217719

https://archive.is/gZEU0 I posted a link to the same article a few days ago, well worth a read. Basically Sweden is having a rake of problems but Germany isn't even though they both took a lot of the 2015 migrants

"This nods to the other problem: Sweden’s generosity to accommodate asylum seekers is rivalled only by the problems it has always had with integrating them into society."

"If you allow people smugglers to pour tens of thousands of usually male asylum seekers into a system unable to absorb them, you fill up edge-of-town estates where organised crime is the big business."

"Lise Tamm, a former chief prosecutor, complained about the “naivety” of the system as a whole. Thousands of decent people, she said, are being left in the lurch “as we protect the integrity of criminals and ignore the victims”.You can see her frustration. There are plenty of calls for laws to change – but must a whole country abandon its liberal values to adjust for a new criminal minority? Then again, Sweden is running out of options. Overall, its crime rate is still about the European average but for this specific sort of crime – the exploitation of children, thermos bombs and gangland shootings – it has somehow become one of the worst in the developed world."

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217829#Comment_120217829

Media are only reflecting the views of the general population - the far right actually admit that FF, FG, SF, Greens, Lab, PBP etc have no time for their policies.....those above mentioned would represent nearly 99% of elected TDs in the Dáil. Your young right leaning staffer journalist would be appealing to a tiny minority of readers and listeners. The idea that the right wing represent a 'silent majority' in Ireland would be beyond laughable - 40% of the Irish population are aged under 30 (people who are extremely unlikely to be right wing).

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217924#Comment_120217924

The people in the above image have a double decker bus, that can be used as a deadly weapon in vehicular manslaughter

The people in the below image have no vehicles, strollers, or flagpoles to be used as improvised weapons

Why what did you see?

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217963#Comment_120217963

Same thing was said before the election of Trump in the US or Brexit in the UK.

To suggest the media represent the views of ordinary people is also laughable, they refuse to even interview the “normal people” at these protests and only want to report the opinions of the refugees welcome brigade.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217963#Comment_120217963

See this is where I disagree. The media are quite obviously not reflecting the opinion of the population as evidenced by the response to the refugee crisis. We have seen poll results that show a majority opinion believe that the State has taken in too many, I have yet to see more than two/three articles that goes "well maybe the protesters have a couple of legitimate points" - and that has really only been McDowell as a counterpoint in the IT. Compare that to the onslaught of opinion pieces that ranges from all the protesters are awful people, to really all Irish are latent racists.

While the right is indeed a minority opinion (it isn't tiny though) generally here, the issue is there is no room for any diversity of opinion. It clearly is career suicide to voice a right wing opinion, particularly on social issues as they are clearly not tolerated in journalistic circles.

And that's why we have a homogeneous media.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217719#Comment_120217719

I posted multiple links earlier about Sweden after some others were suggesting it was some sort of fantasy that the country is having massive issues with gang violence in areas that they filled with refugees. Strangely anybody that suggests this appears to be unable to read an article that they don't like the look of.

Sweden did exactly what we are doing now - piled them into underpriveleged areas and they have a similar leniant outlook on crime/youth crime in particular. The result is available for all the read about if they can be bothered.

buzzerxx

True journalism died long ago, now its all Propaganda, Fake News and disinformation, Lies, twisted quotations and fear mongering, they are all bought out, and writing from the same script, worldwide. Control the media and you control the mind. Many empathetic journalists have been murdered for trying to tell the truth.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218094#Comment_120218094

It just takes as many clicks, taps, electrons to just link to the article, again, and it's a lot more efficient.

Thankfully someone already linked to it.

The article suggests at least 52 gangs known to police the implication is that they're all refugees? Sweden never had a history of organized crime prior to the 2000s? I don't doubt some gangs are refugees, ofc.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217963#Comment_120217963

On the issue of refugees, more and more people have have conservative attitudes. The opinion polls shows this increasing.

It doesn't mean if you want a stop on refugees coming that you're entirely right wing.

Most sensible people take it issue by issue and aren't ideological pinned down by some media driven narrative of left and right. This has been made worse by the importation of American divisive rubbish in recent years.

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218094#Comment_120218094

Sweden provides a chilling example of what happens when a relatively small country takes in thousands of able-bodied, single men from the Third World. Instead of learning from the Swedish example, our government are sleep-walking us into a similar, if not worse, catastrophe. Given our accommodation crisis, thousands of these men will invariably end up in refugee camps in the middle of nowhere. This cannot end well and what's most depressing is how predictable the impending disaster is.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218173#Comment_120218173

I think the anti-immigration guys will be hugely disappointed at the next general election. The 56% who said in the Indo poll that Ireland has taken in 'too many refugees' will clearly stick with FF, FG, SF, Greens, Labour, PBP etc. Very hard for any party to get TDs elected on a single issue and the manifestos of the anti-immigration parties are likely to be seen as too cranky and off the wall when it comes to other issues.