Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Grassy Knoll

Very depressing commentary here….

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218313#Comment_120218313

In what way?

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218272#Comment_120218272

Well the protests have merited results - The government have shifted their position, tightening rules and hinting at time limited supports for refugees.

And the jury is out on the rise of an anti refugee party. This could go on for years.

This is why many of us want stricter controls on asylum seekers and a limit on numbers coming in - so as we don't get a Jean Marie Le Pen type situation here.

y0ssar1an22

could we not just divert some of the foreign aid into building infrastructure here?

that way when people arrive we can help them.

seems like we're double jobbing

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218329#Comment_120218329

https://www.eb5investors.com/magazine/article/ireland-becoming-investment-immigration-destination

There was a period of investing in infrastructure for immigrants...

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218322#Comment_120218322

Government are certainly making different noises on this topic, but so far it seems a like a lot of cheap talk, and largely tokenistic. The thing about "random passport checks" exemplifies the new shifty, mealy-mouthed approach. I mean, why "random" passport checks, and how "random" will they be? Nobody knows.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218351#Comment_120218351

Did the govt explain what will happen to those people who fail to provide documentation at immigration?

Checks taking place is one thing, but what is the repercussion of someone failing the immigration checks?

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218351#Comment_120218351

And the public know these are tokenistic so it hasn't dampened public unease about the numbers coming in.

The crisis is going to get worse come Paddy's time when hotels end their contracts and we have thousands of mainly Ukrainian refugees with no where to go. If the State attempts to house these people in council areas, we're going to have further unrest.

The government, who openly advertised for Ukrainians to come here, now have no where to put them.

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218371#Comment_120218371

Issue with the Ukrainians is the benefits are too generous. Government can stem inflows in the morning by cutting them and bringing them in line with elsewhere. No reason why Ukrainians should be travelling thousands of miles to come here, apart from benefits.

Realistically, I can see the government just ramping up payments to hotels etc, and hotels will dutifully oblige, esp. for the "women and children", where they face little backlash. Government modus operandi is always to thoughtlessly throw money at everything and that's what they'll do here too.

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218348#Comment_120218348

not what i'm talking about.

The purpose of the Immigrant Investor Program is to enable non-EEA nationals and their families who commit to an approved investment in Ireland to acquire permanent residency (Stamp 4 Visa) in Ireland. The Irish government set up the program in 2012. It estimates that last year the program generated about €140 million for the Irish economy.

did the above actually happen? pay us to become residents for 5 years? that reads like something from an EIIS scheme or flender (the value of your initial investment may go down).

what i'm saying is that if ireland (the taxpayer) has X amount to spend on foreign aid, spread that cost over 2 streams:

1. foreign aid to whatever place to help people
2. spend it in ireland to help the people who arrive here

that should be 1 bucket of funds, not 2

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218367#Comment_120218367

Don't think it actually makes any difference, realistically. Apparently, those without docs face a fast-track asylum process (which means it takes, say, 10 years to process instead of 20.)

BlueSkyDreams

If the Indo 56% Poll is reflective of the nation and a small majority now feel that there are too many refugees & 14% are undecided on the issue, that means only 30% of the population are in favour of the current immigration policy.

The govt have to better communicate with that 70%

Constantly calling them all racist and far right drives division and frustration in that cohort of society as they feel they are not being listened to.

Some empathy from the govt is needed and a more effective way to communicate with people really needs to be found, otherwise the 56% will continue to rise.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218394#Comment_120218394

Then there really is no deterrent and little will change.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218388#Comment_120218388

Sounding logical to me mr./mrs. Y0ss

IDK the As to your Qs either apologies

minimary

Well the protesters have definitely succeeded in getting this issue that has been swept under the rug since the citizenship referendum actually talked about. Although the only inivative thing that FG can come up with is potentially higher fines for the airlines. Have we ever been told are the airlines currently fined or is it just on the books and not enforced?

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/02/08/concern-at-fine-gael-meeting-over-asylum-seekers-losing-or-destroying-passports-while-flying-into-the-state/

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218379#Comment_120218379

The problem is that if they do not release bed capacity then the tourism sector will be dealt a body blow that will take many many years to recover from.

But if the hotels do not renew the contracts, in the mid range scenario there will be a shortfall of 10k beds.

To put that in context, that's the equivalent of the likes of the population of Cavan town suddenly with no place to sleep.

It's a disaster that at this point seems highly likely to occur as there doesn't seem to be a way to avoid it. I feel this may eclipse all other domestic stories this year.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218405#Comment_120218405

How bout spending out there to get more bang for your buck. Seems some people want to profit off all this horseshite here.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218272#Comment_120218272

Most "anti immigration guys" don't want the NP in power and would rather the parties above discussed it honestly. Personally I'm getting to not voting territory, but will probably pick a local independent)

The protests (and to be honest the incompetent actions of the government) have made this something to be discussed at the next election. Maybe not the most important issue to people, but one that will be a contributory factor.

We have seen the number of people who see immigration as the most important thing to tackle increase from 2 percent to 12 percent (can't remember the exact figures was a IT/Indo poll) since the last election, that is a massive shift

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120204772#Comment_120204772

How's he being neglected ? Same way we all are in this failed state! Hahe you heard of the crisis in health, housing etc. Law and order a farce. Same with infrastructure... the list goes on...

optogirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120216544#Comment_120216544

and then give them a 4 bedroom house, a new car & a brand new buggy. And double welfare & permission to sexually assault. Amazing really. Almost like it's all bollo*

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218618#Comment_120218618

What exactly do you think you are contributing to the thread by making up something nobody said.

Why would you waste your time making up lies?

optogirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218651#Comment_120218651

It was simply a tongue in cheek nod to the kind of hyperbole that goes on about refugees. You surely knew that though? You can ignore or you can double down on the perceived time wasting by snapping back.

Backstreet Moyes

It was a lie that adds nothing to the discussion.

Someone might read that and believe posters have said that.

It's important to point out when someone is posting lies and misinformation.

The people in favour of illegal immigration are very vocal about misinformation being bad.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218268#Comment_120218268

The two posters I was replying to clearly show what happens when you bring it up. When presented with what has happened from a source they can't discredit they completely ignore it or try to downplay it - instead of accepting it was a disaster that we shouldn't be trying to replicate. I assume they just refuse to read it, or maybe gang wars and 'Vulnerable' high violence areas are some of the benefits we have to look forward to?

optogirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218749#Comment_120218749

I haven't seen anyone say they are in favour of illegal immigration. You could call that part of your post a lie if you were to be nasty. What some people are not in favour of is painting all refugees as deviants intent on scamming and raping. Of course immigration is not being handled correctly but that is the fault of the government. The sight of a gang of yahoos chanting 'get them out' outside a hotel is sickening to me and the bullshit I hear about refugees being handed a cushy life was all I was slagging in the post. I didn't say anyone on the thread said refugees were handed cars but I have heard this spouted in real life. Perhaps my narkiness should have been kept to myself but calling me a liar spreading misinformation is a bit of a stretch.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218770#Comment_120218770

Several posters here refuse to criticise any crimes by illegals and say we have criminals here already.

Those posters are in favour of illegal immigrants.

I have yet to see a poster say all refugees are scammers and rapists.

I have seen people point out they come from countries with backwards views towards women and for illegals who destroy documents could be fleeing a crime elsewhere.

Those are facts that people who are in favour of immigration don't like to hear.

If you can quote posters saying what you said fair enough but I haven't seen any.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218618#Comment_120218618

This isn't what I said. It's dangerous to spread fear.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218770#Comment_120218770

Yahoos?

Divisive language.

Mullaghteelin

Our media has failed not only in airing anti-immigration views, but also of properly exploring the viewpoints of those on the pro-immigration side. In recent days we have seen some on the far left and NGO spokespeople condemning the deportation of a small number so far this year.

They are opposed to any and all deportations, and by implication refuse to discriminate between genuine asylum seekers, and downright opportunists. When you properly follow through this mentality to its logical conclusion, then anyone who wants to come here is welcome. No exceptions.

It is also apparent they view the local Irish, even in disadvantaged areas, as somehow privileged compared to migrants, so are therefore less deserving of sympathy or taxpayer's money than the newcomers.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218618#Comment_120218618

Do you think having 180k refugees by year end (government estimate) is sustainable?

I cannot accept they'll eat the swans as a response! Ta in advance

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218329#Comment_120218329

Why build for them here when the money goes a lot further in their own country?

Anyway it is not just building infrastrucutre for them that will cost, it is lifetime cost of providing state services and social welfare for a good chunk of them.

They offer us nothing but expense and social problems as can be see throughout Europe.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218272#Comment_120218272

Stop conflating immigration with the farce that is going on with so called refugees and asylum seekers

Or how they are now described as "those seeking internaitonal protection".

What a fooking mouthful to describe for the most part a fooking chancer..

This open borders mullarkey is not the only thing people are concerned about, it leads into lack of services, lack of school places, increased accommodation costs due to increased demand, loss of jobs in tourism which is now coming down the road very quickly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217963#Comment_120217963

You are deluded if you believe the media are representative of the views of the majority of Irish people.

The Peter Casey presidential election was a pointer to that and it has only gotten worse since then.

Young people, as in those in mid to late 20s and early 30s, are concerned that they can't rent a place to live never mind buy one.

Then they watch thousands of so called "refugees" and "immigrants" arrive, being accommodated and being told they will be housed in the future.

It is cr** like that makes people quite quickly become less liberal and more conservative in their thinking.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217218#Comment_120217218

What do you expect from a party led by that eejit from Trinity.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218749#Comment_120218749

It's important to point out when someone is posting lies and misinformation.

The taliban are obviously sending believers to Europe to carry out terrorist attacks.

I completely agree. 👍️

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217879#Comment_120217879

Not really what I'm referring to. I'm more referring to the modern cookie cutter liberalism that is pervasive across media today - there is no diversity of opinion particularly on social issues even on the left, nevermind the almost non existent right.

One person posted here that the reason for this is because a right doesn't exist here. That's obviously and demonstrably not true: Almost 4 in 10 voter's rejected marriage equality for example.

To return to my point, the reason that the media is the way it is is because over time one opinion has risen to the top of the ranks and has reinforced that. Anne Harris was once the editor of the independent, imagine having a right leaning opinion as a junior member of staff writing under her - given the drivel she published in the IT this week?

Hungry Burger

Even when the government came out and said there was going to be no cap on Ukrainian refugees I thought it was a bit mental. At the end of the day we are only a small country and thought should have been put into how much we could realistically take while ensuring services weren’t being impacted on for the locals, but I guess that would have made too much sense for the government.

This government is entirely ideologically driven with not a second thought given on practicality’s, even as I type this post big Roddy O’G is on the radio saying people are being “taken advantage of” by the Far Right. Absolute condescending rubbish, at least the narrative seems to be shifting from just labelling everyone against the unlimited influx as “Far Right” Do they really think they can pull the wool over people’s eyes with this nonsense?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120219006#Comment_120219006

Those particular NGO,s are nothing more than people smugglers with a respectable PR department

Graces7

Would a zero refugee policy work both ways though?

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120219581#Comment_120219581

What do you mean by this.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120219585#Comment_120219585

Presumably that means we can't expect countries like Georgia and Albania to take Irish citizens that seek refuge in those countries.

I don't think many would have issue with that tbh.

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120219618#Comment_120219618

That’s what I thought they meant as well which is frankly a ridiculous notion. Not many Irish refugees banging about 😂

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120219626#Comment_120219626

First of all, I don’t know why they automatically call them refugees. Secondly, I haven’t looked into whether these are people who instantly claim asylum upon arrival or whether they have been caught overstaying their visas.

2021 figures - The only 3 countries in the world that citizens of Ireland have claimed asylum in are - Australia, Canada & US of A.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120219700#Comment_120219700

Wonder how many of them are "new Irish" citizens, can't imagine an Irish born person claiming asylum abroad?

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120219923#Comment_120219923

Persons involved in gangland feuds springs to my mind first.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120219984#Comment_120219984

Any documentation of this? It sounds odd to be honest. Gangsters aren't exactly law abiding types, and are more likely to just land in whatever country they chose and stay on illegally.

US3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120219923#Comment_120219923

There's thousands of "undocumented" illegal Irish in those 3 countries. Maybe when they get caught the best chance of staying is claiming asylum if they have kids ect there

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120220086#Comment_120220086

It’s just a guess on my part. I think I asked the same question years back - if you get one of those knocks on the door from the Gardai saying there’s a threat to your life, can you claim asylum in another country based on it? Dunno if I got an answer

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120219585#Comment_120219585

For example: The Irish Diaspora.

'Asylum for me not thee'

Will Ireland reap what it sows, in the near future or the far future, for a zero refugee plan? And hasn't it already reaped the benefit of nonzero refugee plans all over the world?

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120220278#Comment_120220278

Back to this aul chestnut again. What number are we on the Refugees Welcome bingo?

Putting aside the fact that the current situation of chancers from the likes of Albania, Georgia, Zimbabwe, South Africa etc destroying their documents on arrival is nothing like the Irish who went to America, Britain and the like during the famine, the ancestors of the Irish people here today are the ones that stayed and built the country instead of running away.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120220278#Comment_120220278

The Irish diaspora were not refugees. They were economic migrants.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120220501#Comment_120220501

50,000+ Irish in america, undocumented as well. Round them up? Deport them?

How many in Ireland from these places?

batman_oh

It's been a few days since the last Irish people emigrated too post. That'll definitely show us that piling refugees into underpriveleged areas with no housing or anything is the way to go. Tent villages for all!