Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835288#Comment_120835288

The current population of Nigeria is 200 million, its projected to be 400 million by 2050 The total population of Africa is currently 1.6 billion, by 2050 its projected to be 2.5 billion. If just a small percentage come here we'll never be able to supply enough housing. Even if we drew a line in the sand today and decided on no more refugees or asylum seekers it would take years to catchup on housing.

superbatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840756#Comment_120840756

The posters who make such posts let their personal opinions of the matter run over the truth of the situation. It's quite impressive that no matter what stat or fact they are given they find ways to maneuver to their own bias. I live in Mayo in a town. I see the effects of it. Tourism is dead. Many businesses I know have had to shut cos of this. The everyone welcome brigade has no compassion for the people who have lost their jobs and businesses. The same people are all about acceptance but it's only in the manner that suits them. Don't agree with someone, oh, they are racist and bigots. When live in world where some people's ideology trumps everything else. It doesn't matter if I or you give many instances of facts or real life experiences of how this whole situation has an effect on Ireland as a whole, they are not here for discussion. It's just to peddle a narrative that is so worn out the wheels have fallen off.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120837222#Comment_120837222

In fairness many people who went abroad would have booked in advance. Remember what a long grey five months we had up to June?

Its not a very good article really if it relies on those figures.

I would say the high cost of hotel rooms /holiday homes / dining out in Ireland are the main reason tourism is badly affected.

This is something posters have been complaining about for years yet suddenly it is all down to asylum seekers.

Real Donald Trump

What a joke!

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1679122609596760064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1679122609596760064%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

superbatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844257#Comment_120844257

Is it even shocking anymore? I don't know how this happened in any place but Ireland in that no matter what little village or town you go to there are asylum seekers everywhere and I do mean everywhere but sure it's not a problem everything will be fine, let's just keep bringing them and keep our mouths closed.

2Greyfoxes

Some very good points made in this video.

https://youtu.be/Nez95HrakCo

Why are they predominantly military aged men?

Surely, if they are fleeing a war they'd be the ones staying to fight?

The longer this goes on, the longer it looks to be an invasion that is exploiting Europe's generosity and good nature.

Phat Cat

One of the most worrying aspects of thousands of refugees coming to Ireland is the lack of clarity or the reasoning behind the vast influx of mainly adult male refugees. The government, or even local representatives, have kept tight lipped and any discussion that takes place gets shut down immediately.

Case in point, somebody posted a video on the Dun Laoghaire thread of a coach load of male refugees being unloaded into the old Senior Collage building in the centre of the town. The mod threatened to close the thread after a 'welcome with open arms' poster whipped out the racist card. By the looks of things it was an over reaction, but this whole trend of shutting arguments down and labelling anyone that even raises a concern as a racist is totally ridiculous and needs to stop.

bertieinexile

https://joblog.substack.com/p/this-is-how-we-win-probably

Beasty

superbatman threadbanned

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847194#Comment_120847194

Excellent post. Fingers crossed.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120843773#Comment_120843773

Have you heard of the concept of supply and demand? Over half the hotel beds supply in some counties is now gone for refugees. The ones that haven't taken refugees now have no competition and can charge accordingly. And yes half the hotel beds suddenly gone is all down to asylum seekers.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.donegaldaily.com/2023/03/30/summer-concerns-as-50-of-donegal-tourism-beds-contracted-to-state/amp/

high_tower

Why have some counties like Donegal got so many ?? There must be some level of corruption. Or are they just especially greedy up there.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847695#Comment_120847695

In many parts of the country loads of the hotels are owned by a single individual. When they convert from tourism to the asylum seeker/refugee industry then obviously that area will have a high concentration.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847194#Comment_120847194

A lot of wisful thinking, verging on delusion here. I'll just pick out one point

Say a Sinn Fein Government needed the help of Independents to form a majority.

This is very unlikely to happen in reality. If SF tries and fails to put together a 'true left' government, it's next port of call is much more likely to be FF than Healy-Rae & Co. They could after all have attempted to put together a left government with the support of Inds but they didn't even try because they knew they would only make themselves ridiculous tryiing to cut grubby little side deals with every parish-pump-priming gombeen, and the effort was almost certain to fail in the end anyway...

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847194#Comment_120847194

Interesting how you have gone from claiming to not be far right to cheerleaders far right strategy

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847856#Comment_120847856

That blog is a load of total rubbish “how we win”, weird way of looking at things.

Separate from that nonsense anyway, were you able to find anything on how dropping a couple of hundred people dependent for everything at a time into small rural towns doesn’t impact availability of services for the local inhabitants?

bertieinexile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847828#Comment_120847828

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

I don't know about SF + Independents being all that unlikely. If SF were a few seats short of a majority wouldn't it make more sense to take on board a handful of Independents rather than the whole of FF.

As for grubby and short lived - the previous government to this, Kenny/Varadkar, depended on nine Independents and ran its term.

Something else I alluded to in the piece: You hear a lot of leftist parties discussing their attitude to a future coalition with SF. To my mind they don't seem nearly worried enough about SF taking their seats. If there was an election in the morning I think SF would have a good chance of picking up every PBP seat.

Last time PBP depended on SF transfers more than anyone else when SF were getting two quotas everywhere while running only one candidate.

Half of Brid Smiths vote was SF transfers. No wonder she's retiring.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848037#Comment_120848037

 If SF were a few seats short of a majority wouldn't it make more sense to take on board a handful of Independents rather than the whole of FF.

Well SF falling a few seats sort of a majority is not a realistic proposition on recent opinion polling. Sf + the entire rest of the left falling just short of a majority is just about feasible if SF perform to the absolute max, but then you would not be looking at SF as a negotiating bloc but 'the SF-led Left', which is already a precarious enough edifice (would the remanants of PBP and whatever else is left of the 'hard left' even be interested in a government formation deal on any sort of reasonable terms?), before you even consider approaching a fractious bunch of independents from the far end of the political spectrum. Once we get into this sort of territory, which IMO is the best SF can realistically hope for, then a deal with FF that would offer stability and a comofortable majority starts to look far more attractive to SF than the every-last-TD-bar-FF&FG clown car alternative.

bertieinexile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848212#Comment_120848212

Very enjoyable discussion and I'm sure we can rely on the admin to let us know if we're getting off topic.

I think you're being a bit too dismissive of the workability of a government dependent on 9 or 10 Independents especially since we've had a stable long lived one recently.

On the other hand I would by no means write off the possibility of SF partnering up with FF. It would be the final nail in the coffin for FF in my opinion. SF would strangle them and mop up the remnants.

It's the kind of self centred thing Micheal Martin would be up for but presumably he'll be gone before decisons like this are being made.

Slim chance of it if the next FF leader was one who was looking to promote the party instead of himself. Such an old fashioned idea.

How would an opposition of 30 FGers and 20 Independents function? I don't think the current all party consensus and groupthink would survive it.

_Puma_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120845843#Comment_120845843

Very relevant considering what's been going on in this thread.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847607#Comment_120847607

Emergency accommodation in this country is comprised of 60% Irish homeless. 40% non Irish homeless.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848340#Comment_120848340

I agree that hooking up with SF would be a disaster in the medium to long term for FF but if FF+SF is the only feasible government it will have to happen irrespective of who is FF leader. What you are suggesting about an SF-FF deal being more likely under Martin is contrary to conventional wisdom. I'm not sure agree but ever since this 'intervention'

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/martin-opens-the-door-to-coalition-with-sinn-fein/38941313.html

I've never been sure about Martin's bottom line on this question. Perhaps he harbours delusions about going down in history as the man who brought SF in from the cold?

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848359#Comment_120848359

The everything I disagree with is racist card, can only be played for so long.

Coolcormack1979

Just back from a couple of days away down the country.to me a lot of these people that are being taken in are either sitting in coffee shops all day or just begging on the street.

also was in a coastal location that I didn’t know much about but had heard of it.and the one place that did accommodation and food for visitors over the yrs not handed over to more of these people who seem to sit around all day .what a joke of a country where u now feel unsure of when walking around

2Greyfoxes

Anyone who thinks a large influx of refugees doesn't drastically alter the demographics of a country, need only look at what happened to Lebanon. Before the large influx of Palestinian Refugees (who were legitimate refugees fleeing from the Zionist expansion of illegally occupied land), where so numerous that the country's demographics shifted. It once was a Christian dominant country, and now is a Muslim dominant country.

Faith is a big influence/driver of culture and identity. So the Lebanon that was is now no more.

Not saying that this is happening here, but that it can happen, so is something to be mindful of when allowing in refugees/migrants... and that is coming from someone who is a migrant.

0ph0rce0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848691#Comment_120848691

Noticed it over the last few days around Dun Laoghaire, Killiney, Dalkey and Shankill. Begging outside shops, they were never there before. Now you cant walk down the street without someone mooching.

What value does Ireland get out of this 🤷

bertieinexile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848444#Comment_120848444

It's been about two years since I heard anything from people in FF about going in with SF. Have I missed more recent stuff?

Willie O'Dea said he's resigning the whip if they go in to coalition again with anyone.

Since we're cycling through the coalition options there's also the one for which we have a precedent. Main party (SF here) plus just enough Independents to form a minority government propped up in a confidence and supply arrangement by FF. (Might be more acceptable to FF)

Of course we've no idea. That arrangement above took months to get in place and could have gone other ways.

What we can be fairly sure of is that there will be around 20 Independents elected (as in recent times) and as always they will lack any ideology. Their sole focus will be on reflecting the needs of constituents. And with 75% of the country feeling we've taken in too many immigrants and similar numbers of rural dwellers angry at the green agenda that's what the majority of these Independents will be voicing. Like their political lives depend on it.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120850074#Comment_120850074

Pay our future pensions according to all the NGOs, but seemingly I am a racist nazi if I highlight that this is unlikely

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.thejournal.ie/government-extends-suspension-visa-free-travel-refugee-status-6118589-Jul2023/

Good to see some measures from the govt in recognition of that portion of asylum seekers that are taking the piss to exploit our system.

Even they are beginning to wake up to the unnecessary strain we’re bringing upon ourselves

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120850413#Comment_120850413

What we can be fairly sure of is that there will be around 20 Independents elected (as in recent times) and as always they will lack any ideology. Their sole focus will be on reflecting the needs of constituents. And with 75% of the country feeling we've taken in too many immigrants and similar numbers of rural dwellers angry at the green agenda that's what the majority of these Independents will be voicing. Like their political lives depend on it.

Yeah but will they have a coherent, unified national policy on immigration, or will they each be negotiating on an individual basis to block reception centres or whatever in their own constituencies? This is another area where I think your substack guy is taking too much for granted.