Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231708#Comment_120231708

I didn't think any irish people moving abroad were accommodated in hotels, received food, medical cards, welfare payments from day one when they arrived in those countries.

Maybe that happens with all our emigrants to USA, Australia etc and the taxpayers in those countries are happy to foot the bill - who knew....

mrslancaster

Leo on rte, just said ireland has taken the highest number of refugees per capita in western europe.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231783#Comment_120231783

Why shouldn't the Greens have it?

What would you have given them instead?

And yes, they are all implicit in this **** show

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231823#Comment_120231823

But we literally have much stricter immigration rules for non-EU citizens and for those without working visas (and even those on the centre or the left have no problem at all with these stricter rules). I'm not sure it's that helpful to refer to refugees as economic migrants - a person can be a genuine refugee or asylum seeker fleeing a bad country and 'also' be an economic migrant who would like to make a better life for him/herself, one doesn't exclude the other.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231839#Comment_120231839

As a former FG voter, and someone who thinks he gets to much abuse. Varadkar is such a disappointing populist slime ball.

Even when I agree with him my opinion of him goes down.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231842#Comment_120231842

Jesus did you read my post? Here it is again rather than go around in circles.

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Aragh Fine Gael promised to end direct provision in both the 2016 and 2020 general elections. They also created the housing disaster and have been in power for 12 years. How was an inexperienced Green TD given this role? A normal company would not give a major project to a junior newbie.

Aren't his decisions implicitly approved by cabinet and the 2 clueless taoisigh? Where has Michael and Leo disagreed with his policy? Why havent they replaced him with someone more competent?

Let's be a bit adult about all this. None of the Greens should have this role.

FF TDs have Health, Housing and Finance and they are struggling in the first two bigtime. Time for FG TDs to step up. They just want portfolios that make them look good. Useless.

The likes of Doherty and Ring giving out about O'Gorman on the airwaves this weekend - oh **** off you cowardly gombeens. Zero honour in that. Just populist BS.

And I do not vote Green!

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I would give it to one of the following experienced TDs.

Simon Coveney

Simon Harris

Paschal Donohue

Heather Humphreys

Josepha Madigan

Patrick O'Donovan

Martin Heydon

Even Richard Bruton.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231846#Comment_120231846

Give up digging, be honest you believe we should take in anyone who arrives here, no questions asked?

Cody montana

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231595#Comment_120231595

Erm no.

I welcome people here, particularly from Ukraine.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231460#Comment_120231460

To be fair, the Greens probably sought this portfolio and when he was first appointed it was a relatively benign one where he could virtue signal away and not cause too many ructions.

It's a whole other ball game now.

mrslancaster

FG didn't make him send that tweet in multiple languages. He's likely a nice idealistic guy who is incredibly out of his depth having never worked in anything but acedemia and theory for his life. Now his misguided, short sighted decisions have consequences

Agree and the consequences are for Irish taxpayers who are experiencing the additional strains on various services that were stretched already due to under investment for decades. An increase of people into the country that is equivalent to the population of Limerick in one year is bound to cause problems.

It reminds me of teenagers who put out the word of a free house party and then can't cope when hordes of strangers arrive at the house. Chaos.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231542#Comment_120231542

Any amount of charities.

Please give as much as you can stretch to- in a small way it'll take a bit of pressure of taxpayers who have no say in funding this fiasco.

Juran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231542#Comment_120231542

Irish Revenue Department I believe

mrslancaster

...

DebDynamite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231846#Comment_120231846

This is the thing, we actually do have strict immigration rules for people who want to do it the right way. In my previous job for example, I worked with an American, a South African, and someone from Malaysia. The former and latter both studied here and subsequently married an Irish person. The both admitted they got married much sooner than they probably would’ve if it didn’t make it easier for them to live and work here - it is a very long, drawn out process even when you marry an Irish person. It was only possible for the South African to work here as her mother was English.

While all these people had relatively good jobs, could support themselves, educated, etc. they would’ve found it very difficult to legally live and work in the country as there wasn’t a particular shortage of their skills, so they wouldn’t qualify for a special work visa, etc. It was only through circumstances of their parentage, or marrying an Irish person (no marriage of convenience here) that allowed them to stay here legally.

But then we’re allowing nearly anyone to come in here to claim asylum who we know will probably will be given leave to remain one way or the other. They don’t have to have any level of skills, work experience, grasp of the English language. Can live off welfare for life if they never fancy working... it seems to be a free for all for one cohort of people we don’t need in the country, while there’s many more people like the examples I gave above all over the world who are educated, can speak the language, will support themselves and would be an asset to the country, but they can’t get in legally. The system is messed up!

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231898#Comment_120231898

I don't care what the Greens want or what their supporters think. Fcuk the Greens. It's much too important for agendas and its too big a job for a party full of inexperienced TDs. They'll be back down to 2/3 seats after the next election anyway.

Give the job to a FG TD who has more experience and the direct ear of the Taoiseach. Let the other moaning FG TDs give out about one of their own. Don't let FG scapegoat this, they are in power for 12 years.

Coveney, for example, was the minister for Foreign Affairs. Loads of experience and contacts in the EU - perfect candidate.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231867#Comment_120231867

Not at all. A person coming from a peaceful country without a working visa has no right to work or live here and I would have no issue whatsoever with Immigration refusing them entry (and this actually happens a lot, despite all the 'open borders' claims).

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231865#Comment_120231865

Yes... And then what do you give the Greens? They wanted a certain number of ministries, and likely asked for this one.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120232537#Comment_120232537

What is your obsession about the Greens? This is about putting the right person in charge of our Immigration policy - why do you care what else the Greens get? Get O'Gorman out and get a senior FG TD in. Simple as that. Are you afraid of hurting their feelings? Make up a ministry, whatever! I'd give the Greens some salad. I'd give Ryan another sleeping pill. O'Gorman already has a job to do with the Mother and Baby home debacle and giving the Tuam babies a decent burial.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120232661#Comment_120232661

Because if the Greens don't agree to go into government, there would have been no government!!

Look the Greens get about my last vote, but were needed for the coalition (and got too much imo)

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120232689#Comment_120232689

So you think changing O'Gorman's portfolio will bring down the govt?

So we are stuck with him for the next 2 years ?

Nonsense. Things change, they'll get over it. It's a vote loser.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231460#Comment_120231460

Heard those comments about o Gorman, they were far too soft on him, o Gorman sent out a global invite a year ago or two and ultimately it is he who is the architect of this shambles we now find ourselves faced with

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120232719#Comment_120232719

So get him out! He was never up to the job. I knew it immediately. We dont need further proof.

Put Simon or Simon in charge for example. Experienced FG ministers.

Anne Rabitte actually lobbied for the role but she is FF and inexperienced. FF have enough big portfolios and they're not doing so great.

I'd suggest the latest critic Michael Ring but he is a complete buffoon and would fail ever worse. He'd never take it of course, he is just a spoofer.

Architect of the shambles? Wow, that's impressive given the the short timeframe and given everything he did had government approval. You give him too much credit. Anyway he is beyond saving so let's "re-architect" the shambles asap. Tomorrow perhaps?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120232724#Comment_120232724

It suits FG to have some gormless fall guy for this mess , o Gorman perfectly fits the role

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120232741#Comment_120232741

Oh I know that but it doesn't suit me or this country. Much too important. It should not be about one hated man. Replace him.

Email your FG TDs and tell them to step up.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120232801#Comment_120232801

The damage is now done, a statue of o Gorman should be erected as a monument to ideological hubris and rank incompetence

seriously though , leave him there until next election, otherwise voters might not punish the Greens sufficiently

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120232825#Comment_120232825

Ah stop. Plenty of damage to be done. Plenty. You're all a bit obsessed with having a bogeyman.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120232724#Comment_120232724

Who would want that department though? It covers such a wide range and each element has problems, Tusla, families, youth, disability etc.

Why not move immigration to some other department - justice maybe, and leave ROG to sort out some of the other issues that affect citizens everyday lives - childcare for example.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120232834#Comment_120232834

Honestly, just get O’Gorman’s hands off the immigration portfolio ASAP, regardless of whatever it takes. He’s utterly incompetent.

Moving it to Justice means it will become McEntee’s brief in future, which is an equally appalling option.

It just needs somebody semi-intelligent with enough backbone to tell the NGOs to go f**k themselves. Surely there are some candidates out there?

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231898#Comment_120231898

The greens are a funny bunch of gobshites. On the one hand ya have them telling us we need to cut back on consumption in every area of our lives and in the other we have limitless resources to accommodate every tom, dick and harry with no questions asked.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120232705#Comment_120232705

Oh at this stage it's toxic and they don't want anything to do with it.

At the formation stage, I assume O'Gorman pushed very hard for it

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120232834#Comment_120232834

Yep whatever it takes. Get him away from the helm. Justice does make a little more sense. McEntee back soon probably too. She would fail too but it will expose her quickly because she is punching above her weight so to speak.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120233041#Comment_120233041

Your assumption is irrelevant and I don't care how toxic it is. FF have Health and Housing which are also toxic and will be for years.

Someone has to manage it. Someone in FG.

Is your plan that we keep O'Gorman there so we can watch him (and Ireland) fail for 2 years? Just so we can vote him out? He will lose his seat and move on with his life. Big deal. Not much of a plan.

It's not about who wants what - Leo appoints who he thinks is the best person for the job. If they refuse, off to the backbenches with them.

clytemnestra

It's actually shocking how unqualified and incompetent O'Gorman is. Look at his CV. Lecturer in a D-list private college for five years, then into DCU. Even his academic career is mediocre, let alone any experience in administration or public office. And here he is presiding over a permanent change in Irish society from which there is no going back and which no-one voted for. McEntee is of a similar calibre. Just terrifying, really.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120233386#Comment_120233386

He is utterly clueless. I said it earlier in the thread, but I read his deluded ‘white paper’ when it was published, committing to own door accommodation after 4 months. Alarm bells immediately started to ring.

I happen to live in his constituency and contacted all my local TDs, including Varadkar. Jack Chambers was the only one to respond and I actually met with his parliamentary representative to express my disquiet. He committed to raising it with Chambers, but this likely never happened.

A child could have foreseen the consequences of O’Gorman’s policy. It beggars belief that he was permitted to move forward in this manner, inflicting as you say, an irrevocable demographic change on the Irish people. He had zero mandate to do this and it’s a damage limitation exercise at best now.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120233386#Comment_120233386

This is actually embarrassing and not your post.

I agree he is totally out of his depth.

We need a strict rule to stop chancers coming in and actually have the supports for genuine refugees.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120233546#Comment_120233546

The thing is that this is only the start of it. There will be economic migrants and asylum seekers coming to Ireland for the next few decades at least. Nothing will stop them crossing the Med into Europe. Nothing will stop them crossing the Channel and nothing will stop them coming into Ireland if they want to. It needs strong leadership to manage it. Strong laws, strong policies. However the title of the thread is meaninglessness - migration will happen no matter what. And don't fool yourself, you'd do exactly the same in their shoes. We all would.

bertieinexile

While the vitriol and derision for O'Gorman is well deserved it should be shared with Micheal Martin.

Martin oversaw all of this. The whole time in office he appeared to listen to no one outside his advisors - even his own TDs. The entire country seems to have been sacrificed to his desire to be remembered as nice Micheal Martin - the kind of Fianna Failer anyone could give a vote to for President. And nice people don't turn away asylum seekers.

Question for the group: If Varadkar were to keep up the rhetoric, and even start delivering, on stronger borders would you be able to overlook everything up to now. Could Varadkar revive FGs fortunes this way? Or is there too much history and too much baggage.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120233386#Comment_120233386

Apparently the population wants to vote in SF. If you're concerned about qualifications of TDs un government roles you ain't seen nothing yet!

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120232860#Comment_120232860

It's actually worth pointing out that O'Gorman is not in charge of immigration, but integration. Immigration policy is set by Justice. Accommodation provision and associated supports are set by O'Gorman's DCEDIY. So responsibility is split between the two departments in terms of overall policy approach. It is a reasonable argument to make that O'Gorman has increased the pull factor to make Justices job harder. His tenure has been a disaster and it's telling that no other department wants to help him out.

The NGO's want to see an immigration Czar, effectively pulling immigration policy out of Justice, integration from DCEDIY and into its own mini department. I am firmly against this proposal - as a small department like that is a prime ministry to target for an ideologically driven junior coalition partner.

It is better policy be handled by justice as a larger more centerist party should then hold it - ensuring more balance and competence in the office. That said Harris, McEntee and Humphreys do not rank among the greats who held such high office.

minimary

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120233833#Comment_120233833

I think they'll talk a big talk about reforming it and bring in nothing that makes a tangible difference to the system. I mean the single process was brought in years and years ago now and it didn't make things any quicker.

I'll believe its not just rhetoric when they don't back down on a deportation order for someone with local support/does a short hunger strike.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231783#Comment_120231783

So essentially by throwing ogorman under the bus , Micheal and Leo caused this mess to let him fail ? That’s treasonous

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120172778#Comment_120172778

So you have proof the overwhelming majority of Irish who emigrate are chancers. They have to work no hand outs .

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120233801#Comment_120233801

It looks like the British are serious about shifting them off to Rwanda. If so look at refugees changing tack and heading straight thru Uk to Ireland instead.

Same kind of protests happening in Ireland happening in UK now.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231846#Comment_120231846

We do get a lot of economic migrants masquerading as genuine asylum seekers from countries not at war. Varadkar expects another 30 to 40 k asylum seekers. We are moving in the same direction will thecosequances be any different .

bertieinexile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120234137#Comment_120234137

I think the government will be forced in to action against "refugees" sooner than you might expect.

Some hotels will refuse to renew contracts over the next few weeks. The "refugees" will then be asked to give up hotel rooms for, in some cases, sleeping bags in halls. They may not see that as attractive. Who do you send in to get them out. In what state will they leave their accommodation if they are being dragged out.

Government facing down "refugees" changes the whole dynamic. It's a new and very different narrative than the one we've been living with for the last year.

We're all Far Right now.

UsBus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120234501#Comment_120234501

Already heard a couple of local radio stations this morning discussing 'far right' problems here. The level of propaganda here now is ridiculous. Media and government so out of touch with the valid concerns of the majority of this country.

Protests in the UK, Liverpool especially have stepped up due to the outrage of their immigration policy. Similar will happen here the longer people are ignored and fobbed off as far right. This country might finally wake up and adopt a French flavour of protest to persuade our clueless politicians they need to change direction and quick.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120232935#Comment_120232935

White guilt is a core tenet of Green Party ideology

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120233801#Comment_120233801

As someone recently commented, the Geneva Convention wasn’t written when Ryanair could fly folks across twenty European countries for less than fifty quid one way

nothing about the entire asylum system is fit for purpose in 2023

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120234955#Comment_120234955

All the while the Irish have nothing to be guilty over, we never had an empire or colonies and never waged wars of aggression.

Even the Ukraine issue has absolutely nothing to do with us, we’re not in NATO or connected to Russia in anyway. We should take refugees because it’s the right thing to do but not take so many that we’re causing problems for ourselves.

Mullaghteelin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120232719#Comment_120232719

This behaviour would have been considered borderline treasonous not so long ago. Politicians primary responsibilities should be to their constituents, the countries' electorate, and taxpayers who pay their wages.

No one questioned how spending money and resources publishing invites in multiple languages was possibly going to help integrate those already here? Did no one point out that it may kill any prospect of fixing the housing crisis in the near future?

I have heard interviews with left wing politicians, such as UK labour, were they more or less admit they are only in politics to change the world, and view their own electorate as a small and trivial part of that. If we had a real media to ask the right questions, we might be shocked at what politicans truly think of us.