Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029302#Comment_121029302

I get the impression the anti-refugee lobby are blaming refugees themselves and see them as the "problem" (witness all the criticism of them - referring to them as economic migrants in disguise etc). This lobby sees the government as the ones who hold the key to solve the issue and are very irritated by their supposed inaction, but most of their ire appears to be reserved for the actual refugees.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029296#Comment_121029296

Article is over 3 years old.

So, figures are not available, so why would you believe it to be more then the 3 sent back to the original country their claims were made?

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029334#Comment_121029334

The 2 links I posted states that UK no longer accepts return of Asylum seekers under the Dublin 111 regulation . IPO stats for eg in December 2017 94 were returned before UK changed its regulation .The number of relocations has dropped to 0 or a tiny number like you say .

One article 3 years old what has changed ?? The majority come from the UK . A number of countries in Africa do not accept return of asylum seekers . Now I have better things to do .

grumpyperson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029284#Comment_121029284

I think they are chalk and cheese. The old people are already Irish citizens that must be provided for by the government.

Policy dictates the number of new entrants. The government can change laws if deemed necessary.

Let's use the analogy of a nightclub.

Say it has a capacity of 500. There are 400 in it already and the owners allow it to fill to 500. When it's at 500, they say free admission and a free drink.

The outcome wouldn't be great.

My old fashioned way of looking at things is that Ireland has a priority responsibility to those who are citizens or here on working, student, tourist visas or asylum seekers and refugees who we have taken in already.

It's not great taking in more people if we cannot provide accommodation for them or it results in a loss of access to services for the residents already here.

It's a tough one because it's not nice to shut the door on anyone.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029585#Comment_121029585

But refugees are not classed as "immigrants" to the country (even though they are included in the official inward migration figures). The problem with capacity and so on is that Ireland has a legal obligation to provide shelter to any person who comes here and claims asylum.

Even if it wanted to opt out of this, it would be virtually impossible to enact in any real sense. Let's say 50 asylum seekers show up in a day at Dublin Airport. It would be illegal under every international law going to deport 50 asylum seekers back out of the country - and deport them to where exactly? France, the UK, Germany etc would raise huge objections if we tried to deport them to their countries without their permission and with nothing to back it up legally.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029112#Comment_121029112

That IS why they are in the situation they are now in certain areas in Sweden.

I have posted links before on this thread, to you, I believe, in good faith, but you choose to ignore like so many others here and go the emotive route.

If people are ghettoised in disadvantage, nothing good comes out of it.

Look at our own ghettos.. Parts of Dublin and Limerick and Cork city that used to be no go areas with high knife and gun crime (highest in Europe in some instances) for AGS and fire trucks and ambulances.

A lot of remedial work has and is being done to combat crime in these areas. And it is recognised by anyone with a brain that it is the concentration of disadvantage that contributes.

Look back to our last long conversation and you will seethe links I posted backing tbis up, as if anybody needs to read a link at this stage to know that that is a true statement.

So yes, I meant my comment and it wasn't 'being smart', it was correct.

The fact that you choose to ignore others posting information because you don't agree is your problem.

Ps . I mentioned talk to Rene because you suggested that to the poster in your post .

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121028826#Comment_121028826

Sorry my apologies. While I had the sums right I quoted the wrong line from the link , with rent , as opposed to without .

You were correct in that . I went back and checked just there but don't think I can edit it now unfortunately .

" Without rent "is 59.2% more expensive in Ireland as opposed to Poland however which is what I was saying .

Here is the part that was meant to be referring to that and which I thought I had posted .

"Consumer Prices in Dublin are 74.7% higher than in Gdansk (without rent)"

Or more generally

" Consumer Prices in Ireland are 59.2% higher than in Poland (without rent)" .

Gen.Zhukov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029252#Comment_121029252

I had to take you off ignore to reply to this

greenpilot posted that on the 3/07/23 - Three days went by and none of the open border defenders pulled them up on the post (it looked to me that they all just tip-toed past it and ignored it) Yes, I did link it on the 6/07/23 to point out that it had been ignored and that's when the left people were forced to confront it. To say it was widely debunked is a massive overstatement. There were a few queries regarding the veracity of the points in the post alright, but wildly debunked?...eh...no

I don't know gp from Adam. They never popped up on my radar as a troll, wum or spoofer - You went a bit further today with a bit of sneaky detective work nosing into their background to try and discredit them further, playing the man and not the ball as it were. That's a bit below the belt in my book especially considering 1) that you nuked your last account where nobody can see your history and 2) the fact that gp is not involved the thread for what ever reason. Perhaps as nobody replied to their initial post they just moved on...or, they just didn't fancy getting into a discussion with some angry Coppinger types

Now, moving swiftly on

There was an interesting discussion on the BOC radio show on the 19th of Feb. There was a lady (businesswoman/hotelier) on the panel. She gave some interesting views on our welfare rates for refugees. She has UA's in her hotel since the start of the war so I think her points should be taken seriously and that she is 'in the know' having spent so much time with her guests.

The whole 1st hour is interesting enough as Karl Dieter was a good guest too and talked some sense about housing and about people that see some issues with the Govt policies were being labeled as racist, far-right etc

The hotelier Lorraine Sweeney does her welfare thing at about the 39:00 mark - Poor ol woke Brendan was panicking a little, bless him

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/brendan-oconnor/programmes/2023/0219/1357587-brendan-oconnor-sunday-19-february-2023/

Imagine that - the bastion of leftie sh!te 'RTE' broadcasting such racist opinions

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121031946#Comment_121031946

No need to move swiftly on! No one replied to his post because it was clearly made up. And as for my detective skills? Yep, pretty good I would hope 😁

You can latch into any post that backs up your opinion, without critical thinking, I prefer to deal with actual evidence and proof.

Little like your link to the radio show from last February, you agree with the hotelier when she stated her opinion, that refugees get too much welfare. (39 mins) however, the same one earlier ( approx 35 mins) complains that the government owe her a 6 figure sum for housing these people, they also owe her substantial interest on late payments, but during the summer it's not worth her while to house them, so now she would like them gone. It was very welcome in winter, Presume she will be happy to have some back come November time 🙄

As for welfare rates being too high, there is an issue in this country that it doesn't pay a lot of people to go to work, particularly single parents, the amount of money and assistance they receive is just so high that the wages they could earn, wouldn't even match it, let alone be any more. It has been an issue for years, people should have an incentive to go to work, at the moment they have not.

I believe that about all people receiving assistance, not just singling out one nationality.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.thejournal.ie/direct-provision-ireland-asylum-seekers-international-protection-6148508-Aug2023/

Will be interesting to see what the revised plan looks like when it’s finally settled. Surely even the most simple minded and naive of our politicians i.e. Roderic O’Gormon and Joe O’Brien can now realise the former idea of own door accommodation for all arrivals within six months was preposterous as to amount to fantasy.

Particularly in the context of our own housing supply crisis, bringing such an IP system to fruition in a decade is impossible, never mind by 2024. It was always a completely idealistic if not ridiculous suggestion.

Also the quotes from the AS NGO representatives in the above article are not doing much to dispel the idea that many are simply economic migrants seeking to bypass immigration and visa requirements.

“We would love to have the support of the State in terms of accessing the labour market without restriction so that people can support themselves.”

Effectively demanding a system in Ireland whereby you can land in documentless and say whatever you want, get yourself a state provided gaff pronto and immediate permission to work. Can only imagine being afforded that in New Zealand or Japan or Canada or USA etc.

They know we are naive chumps here and are acting accordingly.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032639#Comment_121032639

You forgot to mention Darragh O Brien another chump .

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032639#Comment_121032639

They need to speed up the process of dealing with claims, they should be aiming for a decision within 3 months, appeals being dealt with in the next 3.

They wouldn't need to worry about accommodation if they just sped up the system.

Also, this part;

“It is the view that the changed operational environment, as well as the scale of the current needs, requires a move away from reliance on private-sector and service sector accommodation and towards state owned accommodation, to ensure the state is meeting its statutory obligations and to deliver a more permanent and sustainable model of accommodation for IP applicants.”

it's ridiculous that one government department can see this and state something like this, but the Dept of housing, local government and heritage cannot.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032658#Comment_121032658

A chump indeed, although I find D O’Brien a more sinister sort - while Roderic and Joe are almost childlike in their inability to grasp the reality of the situation we find ourselves in, I do believe they are at least genuine in their efforts (incompetent as they may be).

D O’Brien on the other hand appears to have no true conviction and is still attempting to fob everyone off for the egregious underperformance during his time of oversight. A slippery character that one.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032705#Comment_121032705

Yes that is ridiculous - while more permanent state run accommodations would obviously be the ideal situation I don’t see how that could reasonably be brought about in the context of our own housing crisis.

There are finite resources in terms of tradesmen, materials, manpower etc - it’s the simple concept of opportunity cost. You can’t have both massively ramp up state run house building to address our terrible supply crisis AND build a huge amount of state built houses allocated purely for asylum seekers.

Accommodation is a zero sum game - if one person gets the apartment or house or whatever that means someone else doesn’t. That’s the reality of it.

We will never ever be able to build accommodation sufficient to put up all the asylum seekers, there are potentially hundreds of millions out there and we can’t even build enough accommodation for ~13K of our own homeless as of now.

That’s why I think we should be focusing on getting ourselves sorted first.

Not only is it actually achievable, but there is an onus on the state to provide for its own citizens, using the tax revenue extracted from said citizens. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032766#Comment_121032766

The main issue with the DP system is human rights violations. The fact that they keep people in these centres for years is what causes the issues.

If claims were processed much much faster, then DP wouldn't really be a problem as it would actually be a short term temporary accommodation.

The state should be building regardless of who is in the country

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032819#Comment_121032819

The inhumane conditions that they are forced to endure after their difficult journey here priority , should be given to Ukrainians and asylum seekers .

grumpyperson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121033642#Comment_121033642

@rgossip30 volunteering to sleep on the streets and donate their house to refugees/ asylum seekers.

I applaud your goodwill.💪🙌🙌

greenpilot

Post deleted. Times up. Served it's purpose.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121043997#Comment_121043997

Very impressive. I feel a failure after reading this. I just randomly checked this thread. Not having a go

greenpilot

Lol. Couldn't help it. Also didn't intend to go off-piste.

My original comment on the pressures upon rural towns is still apt.

seenitall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121044208#Comment_121044208

It IS very impressive. Always good when there is a bit of a disclosure on a boardsie’s part, and you see that people are really doing nice and useful stuff in the real world out there, makes you believe there are some decent people behind these anonymous usernames after all ! :D

ETA: My daily activities, work aside, would also go under the “woefully inadequate” heading compared to greenpilot, so you’ve company there!

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.rte.ie/news/europe/2023/0829/1402353-belgium-asylum-seekers/

Well look at this…Belgium is suspending applications from single male asylum seekers due to their ongoing accommodation crisis and them having taken a disproportionate number compared with other much larger countries

Hmm that sounds familiar

seenitall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121044347#Comment_121044347

I’m shocked!! :o

What has now started happening, and will accelerate in future no doubt, is that the EU’s newly minted (was it May? when they came to an agreement together and congratulated themselves silly on finding the long awaited solution to the influx) “burden sharing” agreement will start rapidly sinking under the weight of sheer numbers arriving. It will be every country for themselves before you can say “border controls”.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121044347#Comment_121044347

Ooh, the EU will no doubt fine them. Bold Belgium.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121044347#Comment_121044347

If you read the article though, it's not because they are identifying single male asylum seekers as a 'problem', but simply because they don't want the even worse alternative of women and children refugees left homeless and sleeping on the streets i.e. they think single male refugees would at least be able to cope better with having to sleep rough.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121044500#Comment_121044500

I read the article thank you.

The “problem” is that they don’t have enough accommodation for everyone arriving. Which is exactly what’s happening here.

I don’t understand how there are people still calling for the continuation of our policies when it will end with people sleeping on our winter streets.

We’re in the midst of our worst homelessness crisis ever, with the record number of homeless being broken every week. And then you have the people who laud themselves humanitarians wanting more and more of it. Import more people to be homeless.

Beggars belief

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121044526#Comment_121044526

Asylum seekers and homeless people are not accommodated in the same places by the State, so it's very unclear how homeless people could benefit, no matter whether the numbers of asylum seekers arriving were low or high.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121044548#Comment_121044548

I didn’t say anything about our homeless benefitting - I’m talking of the amount of people that are going to be sleeping rough on our streets. If there’s no accommodation, that’s what’s going to happen, homeless or asylum seeker. That’s not something I want to see coming into winter.

Even the Ukrainians, who have received the best treatment of all up to now are going to be put up in tents. Families of people out in tents living in the pissings of rain and cold.

All because some people are unable to face reality and just say “Sorry we’d love to take you, but we’ve nowhere suitable to put you at the moment, it’s not possible”.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121044526#Comment_121044526

However, from a virtue signalling perspective, the unprecedented homeless crisis is the best time to advocate for a continuation of policies. The more extreme the housing shortage the better.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121044584#Comment_121044584

But as I said, asylum seekers and homeless people are accommodated in different places, it's difficult to see how one could impact on the other. Asylum seekers are usually housed in direct provision centres, disused buildings and schools, hotels, army barracks, tented areas etc. Homeless people are accommodated in hostels, homeless shelters, specialised residential units, sometimes bed and breakfasts and so on. Completely different agencies deal with the two sets of people (as their needs are clearly very different).