Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074505#Comment_121074505

Only if they are working in areas that require vetting. The idea they all need to be vetted is drivel.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074513#Comment_121074513

I never said they all needed vetting. I suggest you actually read my post.

Gen.Zhukov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074089#Comment_121074089

I do know offering full social welfare to Ukrainians was a strange decision not necessarily well thought out. Surely it could be rolled back on to help fund their general up keep due to sheer numbers coming in.

The reason they are not rolling it back (imo) is purely a face saving exercise - They made a huge mistake where they thought it may be for about 6 months or so and afterwards Europe would look at Ireland saying - 'Aren't the Irish a great bunch of lads'. So here we are 18 months later - They can't reduce the payments now because this leaves them open to questions about why they gave full s/w payments in the first place. Having said that, they shouldn't worry...the MSM in Ireland are such wusses, they won't ask the question!

The welfare rates are undoubtedly a pull factor and most likely have us where we are today - I don't blame the UA's for this btw, I'd do the same

rgossip30

So a genuine question

If we are now at the stage where we can only house Ukrainian refugees in tents, why not do that in Western Ukraine or Eastern Poland?

Stephen_Maturin

CEO of NGO on Newstalk with Pat Kenny right now - when asked what the government were supposed to do to actually provide more accommodation where none exists (the current reality) he had absolutely nothing to offer.

Dunno what planet these people live on, emphasis on feelings and not actual possible solutions.

“Sure it’ll be grand” doesn’t cut it when you’ve told thousands of people you can shelter them and absolutely nowhere to put them. It’s reckless.

Goldengirl

Cue ..a massive drop in applications over the next few weeks as this news filters out .

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078580#Comment_121078580

Not a '' massive '' drop your own addition and is likely to be short lived .

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/05/03/drop-in-asylum-numbers-in-ireland-may-be-short-lived/

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121080244#Comment_121080244

What do you mean my" own addition "?

That article is from May?

mykrodot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075264#Comment_121075264

Pat Kenny interviewed Lara Marlowe the journalist who is currently in Ukraine this morning on Newstalk. She said most of Ukraine is "business as usual" with schools, shops, businesses and tourism all operating as normal. Western Ukraine is huge and is also hugely unaffected. This begs the question (1) why are 650 Ukrainians a week still coming into Ireland, travelling through numerous European countries to do so? and (2) why can Ukrainians who are affected not be transferred to Western Ukraine for accommodation in Ukrainian hotels and EU money can be sent to supplement this? Why are they flooding into tents into tents in Stradbally in the middle of rural Ireland?

If I was Ukrainian I would prefer to stay in my own country, but in a safer part of it, same language, culture, familiarity with life, work, family and friends.....

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121082835#Comment_121082835

 There are nearly 5.1 million internally displaced people in Ukraine.

Patrick2010

Are we still paying them full social welfare, child benefit etc while also providing accommodation and meals?

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083981#Comment_121083981

Genuine question, why would such wealthy Ukrainians come here? If they are wealthy the benefits they get here would not be relevant. It does not make sense unless I am missing something.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121084140#Comment_121084140

We are indeed

mykrodot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121084056#Comment_121084056

I think I know the one you mean!

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0907/1404015-stradbally-accommodation/

What an embarrassing disaster - O’Gormon so unbelievably out of his depth.

Families being put in tents because a load of ideologues can’t face reality. Hundreds arriving every week but don’t worry! A whole seven hundred modular homes will be ready soon! That should cover a couple of weeks of arrivals and then back to square one.

Shítshow. It’s not going to end, they’re going to keep coming. How long before they can get that through their thick fücking skulls.

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121087736#Comment_121087736

Clowns like O Gorman are being played Imv, millions upon millions are being trousered by the suits in the boardrooms over this craic all financed by the taxpayer but it will all topple over under it's own weight in time mark my words, and of course when it does the bill when it comes as sure as night follows day will land on the ordinary citizens doormat like always but those boys and girls will never lose, they just move on to the next investment

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074513#Comment_121074513

When people say vetted in relation to refugees they mean they have a genuine passport

Geuze

I disagree with a zero-refugee policy.

But reduce the numbers to be in line with DE and FR.

I suggest 1% of population, say 50k.

minimary

The student apartments in Sligo that had a contract from the Government to be used as refugee accommodation which was subsequently dropped. Aren't going to be used as student accommodation for the upcoming year

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/sligo/news/massive-blow-for-sligo-students-as-apartments-no-longer-earmarked-for-accommodation-despite-ukrainian-refugees-moving-out/a1645420717.html

One of them seems to be full time tourist accommodation now and the other just seems to be lying idle https://www.booking.com/hotel/ie/clarionapartmentssligo.en-gb.html?aid=356980&label=gog235jc-1DCAsoaUIWY2xhcmlvbmFwYXJ0bWVudHNzbGlnb0gzWANoaYgBAZgBCbgBF8gBD9gBA-gBAYgCAagCA7gCvPLvpwbAAgHSAiRjMjE3MjllMC0yYmM1LTQyZjAtODYxNC0wN2EzMmQ3MTU1ZjfYAgTgAgE&sid=df028dfa12aa95082a51b11a4baafc04&dist=0&keep_landing=1&sb_price_type=total&type=total&

Patrick2010

Makes a good case for taxing vacant properties

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088191#Comment_121088191

I wonder if politicians have promised them a pile of new asylum seekers soon once the media attention has died down. They will easily get away with ramming 3 or 4 times the amount of people in if they take asylum seekers which means vastly more profits.

I would think they are hardy leaving those properties empty for no good reason.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056044#Comment_121056044

How true I did hear that possibly 7k Ukrainians could be in tents at the Electric picnic site . The 750 is only the beginning anything is possible .

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121087965#Comment_121087965

The financial cost and the current immediate impact of repurposing everything with a roof (even if it's made of canvas) is only the short term problem.

Long term, many of these won't go back and under McEntee's "serve your time for free citizenship and a passport!" policy (is it only 3 years now?), a lot of them will probably qualify for that too (and if they don't there'll be a amnesty/giveaway to ensure it), making them permanently our responsibility.

It won't address the massive social inequality and divisions that they have already created though.

Still, maybe that's the plan? Are FF/FG trying to replace their voters seeing as they've systematically managed to ignore and marginalise the original set to where even the most apathetic can recognise this nowadays?

I'm only half joking... seeing as there's no logic to the current "plan" and no response to the problems beyond "pack 'em in", it's as good a theory as any!

Juran

Similar new council estate near my area. But not to EU nationals, but non-EU who claimed refugee status here around 10 -15 years ago, and has since obtained citizenship I presume. First accomidated in Direct Provision, then HAP paid their private rental, and now keys to new local authority houses. I am not saying they dont deserve to be housed. Everyone deserves a roof over their head, if the state allows them to enter or stay. But I know Irish and EU families who work low incomes and are waiting 10+ years for LA housing and are no where near the top of the list. And they get no info on when, what, where, etc.

The state or LA need to be fully transparent on how the housing list works, and who is getting priority. Even publishing statistics to show it is non bias or not racist (against irish/EU white people), and that working people are getting the same oppurtunity as people who dont work or who never worked.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.thejournal.ie/tents-for-refugees-very-short-term-6166765-Sep2023/

Numbers increasing, no accommodation available (such that they’re resorting to second hand festival tents) and coming into winter.

No doubt Joe O’Brien’s usual mealy mouthed chatter about moral obligations will put roofs over these peoples heads

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096548#Comment_121096548

Won't happen unfortunately. It should, but the housing lists/system is as "flexible" as needs be to the demands of local politicians, interest groups, and the council board which means that people can and do skip the queue depending on who asks.

You have identified one of the biggest problems though - our "giveaway citizenship" model which allows anyone who manages to stay here for a period of time (it was/is 5 years but I've seen talk of reducing that) to apply and be given it in a nice ceremony and a spot on the RTE News.

That would be all well and good (well not really, citizenship should be a privilege and earned - not handed out as a reward for "time served"), except for the known and serious flaws in the DP/AS process where appeal after appeal can be undertaken to drag out the time, and where even if an application is rejected there is no enforcement around deportation (people are just asked to please leave, thanks!).

Add these two issues together and we end up with a system where of course native and EU citizens will be pushed down the list to accommodate - but these things can't be said aloud because

1) the media won't cover it objectively,

2) the political system as a whole is full of nepotism, favouritism, "shortcuts" and workarounds, and

3) calling it out would mean upsetting the NGOs and twitter/trend-following senior politicians and our "friends" in Europe - as well as exposing that for all our talk and spin, in many ways we're not much more advanced or developed than some of the 3rd world places these people are coming from.

We just have better benefits and marketing.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096548#Comment_121096548

and that working people are getting the same oppurtunity as people who dont work or who never worked.

You're kidding yourself if you ever thought this happened. I've seen people hold off on taking jobs and promotions because they were close to getting offered a house. It's actually ridiculous how broken our housing system is but has very little to do with our refugee policy

Some good points made by Paul Treyvaud (Killarney restaurateur) on the radio a few days ago that because hotels are still housing Ukranians and homeless that businesses like his have had a very quiet summer and will likely go bust this winter. It's hard to argue with his logic.

Of course if you open up his twiter feed all you see is racism but he makes good points on the radio

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121104084#Comment_121104084

"Of course if you open up his twiter feed all you see is racism but he makes good points on the radio"...

Exactly why its him aways on and not others.

Have friends working in the business in Killarney who said that and half the people working with him are poorly paid foreign workers who can't afford to leave.

Hypocrite.

I read this article this morning and I agree with every word of it. It's great to hear local councillors standing up for the locals. Why do modular homes for 'Ukrainians only' not need planning permission!? Why are there thousands of people sitting on local authority housing waiting lists and Ukrainian people are fast tracked ahead of them!? Why are so many people left with no choice but to live with their parents? Why the sudden burst of urgency to repurpose accommodation for the new locals in city centre locations when we have a massive student accommodation crisis?

Why why why...!!!

This is no country for Irish people for sure!

https://www.mayonews.ie/news/home/1296586/council-say-they-have-no-control-over-decision-to-allow-modular-homes-for-refugees.html

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107511#Comment_121107511

https://donegalnews.com/modular-homes-could-be-used-to-house-ukrainian-refugees/

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklow/west-wicklow-news/wicklow-councillors-in-the-dark-over-ukrainian-modular-homes-plan/42335071.html

These pre-fabs are popping up all over the country, with no planning permission, no public consultation, and no input from the local county councils.

In many cases they are being built on public green spaces or land allocated for community centres or playgrounds.

The govt. have put OPW in charge of the operation. All the while claiming that its due to "an EU Directive" which they claim says no PP is required.

Well I'd like to see that directive, if it exists, because the EU does not get involved in local planning permissions.

Instead, there is an EU Directive that says the tenders for lucrative govt. contracts must be open and transparent, and open to firms in other EU countries. But there is a derogation for this in emergency situations. So it looks like this govt is

a) riding roughshod over the Irish planning system

b) subverting local democracy and local govt.

c) awarding lucrative contracts in secret