Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Lofidelity

I would guess that the Government are getting huge pressure from the EU and from the NGO sector at home.

There is guilt across the EU over colonies, wars and more recently, filling the Russian war chest with oil and gas money.

The increasing power and influence of the well funded and well connected NGO sector in Irish society is reflected in the uniformity of opinion across all political parties and the lack of critical reporting by the media.

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108058#Comment_121108058

Michael McDowell addresses this in his article in yesterdays Irish Times. He rightly points out that they're not NGOs in the strictest sense as they receive taxpayers money and seem to work hand in glove with the government to advance certain agendas. They're more akin to TANGOs Tax Aided NGOs and are a bad thing for democracy.

The use of public money to advocate to influence public opinion in a particular direction, whatever that is, while normal citizens don't have access to the same government funding. This is highly concerning to anyone who cares about a democratic society rather than advancing their own agenda(s) whatever they may be. Political parties already get taxpayers money depending on how they performed at previous elections. They can then use this money to prepare for the next election campaign. I'll leave the last word to McDowell:

"Use of public money to influence public opinion is deeply problematic . . . . How does that stack up? While they can’t spend public money on the election campaign itself once an election is called, they can spend on all the preparatory organisational efforts. When there is such wide and free access to social media, is there not now a strong case for radically reviewing the growth of tangos as State-funded vehicles for promoting political agendas?"

So they can send money to TANGOs to circumvent political spending laws. How can anybody argue that this is good for democracy?

No doubt this may trigger some TANGO adjacent posters, which isn't the intention. I don't care what side of the divide people fall on this, this is dangerous for democracy.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.euronews.com/2023/09/13/nearly-7000-people-arrive-at-italian-island-in-less-than-24-hours

This situation is simply not sustainable, it shouldn’t have been allowed fester this long which is to nobody’s benefit.

The EU are going to have to act soon, it’s getting insane.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108980#Comment_121108980

All are welcome apparently. Pile a few thousand into D4

Potatoeman

More fun in Europe:

https://www.ft.com/content/435c6b91-99d3-4407-a710-b40b02615040

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108233#Comment_121108233

Problem with quoting McDowell is that you seem ignorant of the fact that he is not just a disinterested journalist, but a very partisan failed politician, who would have privatised our country if he could have.. But he was thwarted by the parties in government now, and democracy.

Its democracy that got rid of him and his party in this country.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108058#Comment_121108058

So you are criticising people who are well funded, well connected, having increased influence over government and the media...sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory to me!

Is this not always the case that those who disagree with any government policy can point to " well connected or well funded people and say" look these guys are exerting undue influence "!

We have less lobbying in our political system than the US or the EU and more influence from local councillors. That is how our system works for the people, or not, if they don't do their jpbs.

These are the people that need to be mobilised into action if there are issues about housing or services.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108980#Comment_121108980

Ghadaffi's prophecy has come to pass.

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109745#Comment_121109745

So TANGOs being used to avoid political spending laws good, McDowell bad, gotcha. Thanks for proving my point.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109921#Comment_121109921

Very childish answer with made up words, and comment..

And not what I said at all as regards NGOs.

Why would anybody quote McDowell and democracy in the same post?

Because they haven't a clue maybe?

As you have proven with your reply above./s

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108058#Comment_121108058

On the point of the Irish media, I would say most Irish people are not racist and are therefore are not being brainwashed by anyone into adopting a pro-refugee stance. I believe there a natural empathy out there for refugees given our own history. The racists and bigots making noise all over Irish social media are very much a minority and certainly no 'silent majority'....that myth has long since been debunked.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109091#Comment_121109091

ah here keep D4 out of it, we have it nice here, dont spoil it, that's what west dublin and the regions are for.

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121110622#Comment_121110622

”Everyone who disagrees with me is are racists and bigots”

What has been debunked?

Every poll has said the complete opposite to what you’re claiming. I know you don’t do objective information but have you got any evidence of widespread support amongst the public for the continuation of the current policy?

Have a number of polls published by papers of repute that absolutely refute your claim.

Mike Murdock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109745#Comment_121109745

Pretty childish to call McDowell a "failed" politician when he was Tanaiste, a Minister for Justice, an elected TD on 3 occasions, and is now a Senator.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111300#Comment_121111300

I think that is on a different level to saying 1 good, 2 bad, gotcha!

And yes he scraped along there to become a senator. The rest was when he and the others of the privatise pd s held the balance of power.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121110888#Comment_121110888

Do post them then, for discussion if nothing else.. But only 'of repute'.

_Puma_

It's a very pointed piece from McDowell and cuts to the heart of the Problem that these NGOs are causing our society and democracy.

Queue the outrage from the usual suspects here..

Gen.Zhukov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121110888#Comment_121110888

Just a quick reminder of the 3 polls held in the first half of this year

VM tonight show did a poll - 'Do you think the Govt is doing a good job re refugees/asylum seekers?' YES 10% - NO 90%

IT poll - Q. Do you agree or disagree with - "There is a limit to the number of asylum seekers/refugees Ireland can cope with?" A. Agree 84% - Disagree 11% - (thick 5%)

The SBP Red-C poll - 'Do you think Ireland has taken in too many refugees?' - Yes 75%

Those polls - VM tonight show, The IT and the SBP means the average across the three is 83% against the current policy. That's pretty definitive and takes any margin of error, snapshot in time arguments completely out of the equation

Now the question needs to be asked - Are the Govt making a complete bollocks of this or, has Ireland become a neo-Nazi white supremacist nation? It's a tough one alright

It's quite amazing that nobody seems keen on doing anymore polling on this issue since the end of May this year and there is very little discussion anywhere in the MSM - How does that happen? - 'Democracy' my hole

Stephen_Maturin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111356#Comment_121111356

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/almost-two-thirds-of-irish-people-says-limits-should-be-put-on-number-of-refugees-entering-country/42344267.html

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/red-c-poll-three-out-of-four-think-ireland-has-taken-too-many-refugees/

https://www.irishtimes.com/podcasts/inside-politics/support-for-ukraine-strong-but-accommodation-worries-grow-poll/

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/02/23/irish-times-poll-majority-of-voters-support-ban-on-protests-at-refugee-centres/

I look forward to your moving of the goalposts

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111547#Comment_121111547

Thanks Stephen... and Gen. Zhukov.

Will peruse and get back to you on those.

_Puma_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111444#Comment_121111444

Your assumption is wrong. There is some of us old enough on here to remember a time before your imported culture wars were a thing. You have just however proven my point.

McDowell is spot on and the outrage will continue from the usual suspects on this forum.

Meanwhile the veil of secrecy surrounding these insidious institutions is slowly being lifted to the wider public. Reading McDowells piece certainly reveals some interesting modus operandi of these people and their operation within this governments circles.

In a normal functioning state this would have been fodder for the electoral commission and Sipo to call out but their silence has been deafening. They are going to find it harder and harder to ignore.

"Sponsored by the government of Ireland" indeed.

rgossip30

What is notable here when asylum seekers first came to the area it will only be temporary was the government response . They are now looking to expand . The same will happen on the Electric Picnic site .

Wexford councillor claims ‘growing concerns’ exist over plans to use Gorey B&B as Direct Provision centre

A Wexford County Councillor has said there are growing concerns over transforming B&Bs, nursing homes, and community amenities into Direct Provision centres to house international protection applicants.

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111866#Comment_121111866

Plus the fact that McDowell is also a respected (in the legal sense anyway) constitutional lawyer and former attorney general. So he would know more about this fact than any numpty commenters on here, myself included. But the real unforgiveable thing to many TANGO adjacent people is the fact that he brought forward the citizenship referendum which stopped the situation where heavily pregnant migrant women were coming on the ferries to Dublin purely to give birth in Ireland, get citizenship for their child and circumvent immigration system. There were newspaper reports of ambulances having to wait for ferry arrivals at Dun Laoghaire. the masters of the maternity hospitals warned the Department that pregnant women were arriving from abroad with their antenatal notes.

This referendum was overwhelmingly passed by the Irish people despite the usual calls of racist by the usual suspects.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112595#Comment_121112595

And yet we have McEntee and others trying to row that decision back "by stealth" through legislative changes.

Potatoeman

Italian island has 7k refugees arrive in one day, the same number as the entire island:

https://www.euronews.com/2023/09/13/nearly-7000-people-arrive-at-italian-island-in-less-than-24-hours

Potatoeman

A look inside one of the French migrant camps, I hope we don’t get these criminals deported from the UK.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1812988/migrant-crisis-calais-grande-synthe

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121113028#Comment_121113028

It's unfortunately only a matter of time until we see a serious incident (we've already seen several in fact), statistically more likely the more the numbers increase and the conditions worsen causing frustration and anger.

Ireland is not special or unique (except for the benefits we are offering) so there's no reason to think we'd be spared these unfortunate side-effects either.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121113448#Comment_121113448

The irony:

“Standing in the sun, cigarette in hand, he reveals how he’d respond if migrants from around the world descended on the place he called home: “Truly, if that happened to my country, I don’t accept that. I tell you the truth. If that happened in my country I don’t accept it.

“In that situation I can’t get a council house.” “

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121113448#Comment_121113448

Well unfortunately we can expect more. I wish it wasn't so, but since we have absolutely no way of even doing something so basic as identifying anyone who rocks up claiming asylum, how can we be sure that they're not violent criminals, or even terrorist fundraisers as recent cases reported in the media have shown?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121111866#Comment_121111866

What 'imported culture wars ' are mine? I have my own opinions and expressed them long before that phrase was invented.

Thats just bs to try to discredit somebody who has lived long enough to know about a creep who never cared for any of his own while in government (why they were handed their cards.. The PDs) and is now busy entrenching himself in a triple pension set up ( ministers' senator's, legal, and now writing his sxxxy column).

No outrage. Just educated opinion. Which I am entitled to express here.. Here is his epitaph after losing his seat for the third time in the short years he was minister as well as leader of his party, leaving them with 2 seats in the Dáil in 2007...

"He was the first sitting Tánaiste to lose his seat, and his subsequent departure from politics makes him the "shortest-serving political-party leader in the history of the State"."

He' s a greedy rightwing xenophobe, and only likeminded and those who don't remember him and his bunch in government would support him.

Its obvious that you and the other poster just looked him up on google with the spiel ye have produced on here.

Joke.

But I suppose I shouldn:t be surprised that people here would support him as one of their own and you are entitled to your opinion whether I rate it or not .

_Puma_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121114606#Comment_121114606

Again your assumptions are wrong.

Even with your outrage, you've nothing to offer to counter the point raised in his column. Just personal attacks.

I don't need to discredit you. Your doing good enough by yourself.