Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236816#Comment_120236816

If native americans engaged in slavery then they deserve their just lot for that, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_Native_Americans_in_the_United_States#:~:text=The%20slave%20trade%20of%20Native,American%20slave%20trade%20by%201750.

The slave trade of Native Americans lasted until around 1730. It gave rise to a series of devastating wars among the tribes, including the Yamasee War. The Indian Wars of the early 18th century, combined with the increasing importation of African slaves, effectively ended the Native American slave trade by 1750.

Irish people owe nothing to anyone abroad, and have no moral obligation to take asylum seekers.

I universally disagree with this sentiment. No human can say they haven't owed something to anyone else. None of us our gods but we act as arrogantly at times. Am I being too egalitarian?

Floppybits

Jaysus I wasn't expecting this thread to take a trip down the Slave trade worn hole. :)

Anyways on topic I don't think any country should have a "zero refugee Policy". I think any country that can help another should but, and there is but, it can't be a free for all that this current fiasco has turned out to be. I believe that each country get enriched by immigration similar to the way generations of Irish have enriched other countries cultures but there does need to be checks and balances and people can't just turn at immigration in the airport and say I lost my docs and the immigration guys go that's grand, welcome to Ireland, off ya go now. I think every country has problems with their own home grown wasters/criminals that they don't want to be adding to the problem by importing more from other countries.

The way I view immigration is like being a house guest, if the owner of the house knows who you are, you get invited in, if they don't then you may not be let in, similarly if you are in the house and start smashing the place up you will be thrown out and told never to come back. That applies to every body who is a guest in another country including our own people, treat the host country and its people with respect they are giving you a chance, throw that back in their face then expect to be thrown out. Only fair.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236827#Comment_120236827

We owe nothing to anyone. We were colonized and brutalized by a regime that literally attempted to wipe out our existence. They did a damn good job by engineering a genocide that destroyed our population, language and culture. They, along with the pointy hatted prince man over in Rome flung our people to the four corners of the Earth. We are the people who stayed. We are the people that survived the genocide/famine. We are the people who flung out the thrash that tried to destroy us. We did all that. We did it on our own. We created a Republic the Irish citizen is the one finally sovereign. We, the sovereign people made this place, and anybody that thinks we are going to hand it over to any article who had no part in the struggle of making of it would do well to think again.

DebDynamite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236001#Comment_120236001

McDowell has been talking sense on this issue for a long time. Most of us could only dream these days for a Minister for Justice speaking so frank and truthfully about about the asylum system.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0518/63283-asylum/

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236607#Comment_120236607

Can you pass on the multiple links proving all the significant misinformation?

Misinformation is bad and I would be interested to read what was exposed as lies.

I haven't seen anything myself.

Our local school had a lovely new family (😬) move here with about 4 new pupils in tow in the last month. They were such a wonderful addition to the school (😬) and my child's class (😬). I can only imagine they were one of the international protection candidates because if this was America or Australia, they would have been turned on their heels at the airport.

Anyhoo, I heard today that they left for pastures new. Honestly this government should hang their heads in shame at their mismanagement of this country.

I have never heard of so many negative stories about one family in such a short space of time. What a joke.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237383#Comment_120237383

I'm not really sure its the governments that locals treated that family so badly

Galwayguy35

People coming here who are educated and able to fill the vacant positions in the health service and other areas are what is needed.

The reality is most of the young men arriving here have little or no skills and can barely speak a word of English so are no use to this country at all, not the kind of economic migrants we need.

Overheal

I've heard that claim a lot on the thread, about having no skills. Granted they haven't english skills. But no skills seems like a wide brush and I didn't see it challenged, is this just accepted as true or is there really data behind it

Galwayguy35

If they had skills they would go the legal route and apply for a visa which is what happens for the people we want to come to this country and who are a benefit to society.

The people we don't want to come here are weirdos like the guy who was leering in a hairdressers window a few days ago, the fella a few weeks ago who was threatening 2 women in the welfare office with sexual assault if they didn't give him money or the one who got his cock out waving it at passing women.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237578#Comment_120237578

Ireland admits thousands of skilled migrants annually via the work permit program. If they have the required skills and a suitable vacancy exists, they'll be welcomed here.

It's astonishing that this needs to be explained. This is truly remedial stuff.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237414#Comment_120237414

How is this comment furthering the debate in any way? What are you trying to achieve here?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236529#Comment_120236529

I'm suggesting that the idea that this unsavoury incident was enough to spark off riots and attacks on the police in Liverpool is beyond ludicrous. Every day on social media, we see footage of fights, arguments, name calling, inappropriate behaviour or language etc etc. That mob heading to attack a refugee centre and clash with riot police because some refugee fella had asked a 15 year old girl for her phone number was 100% rooted in racism and driven by far right elements (ironically, these far right types are often the biggest misogynists going).

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237678#Comment_120237678

Its a discussion forum.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Jesus this thread is great for keeping the mentally insane people busy typing on their keyboards instead of out terrorising normal people.

I must admit I only flick through it the odd time but tonight made me actually laugh out loud. One poster practically saying we were racists for not allowing pre teen girls give out phone numbers to adult males and another lunatic celebrating how great countries became after they were raped, pillaged, murdered and colonised by the Brits!

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237758#Comment_120237758

You didn't answer my question. How was that comment furthering the debate? What point were you trying to make?

Explain yourself.

Mullaghteelin

The moment I knew the far-left in the Western World had truly jumped the shark was when, nearly a decade ago, Swedish authorities were seemingly okay with men in their 20s or 30s being put into classrooms with young teens. Nothing to see here, totally normal.

Later, there were similar arguments in the UK, with NGOs claiming dental checks to help verify the age of migrants were somehow inhumane and racist. NGOs insisted that anyone who looked under 25 must be treated as a child until it can be proven otherwise.

This was charity pushed to the point of madness.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237838#Comment_120237838

I don't have to explain myself but thanks anyway

Ten of Swords

Mod - Can we get the thread back on topic. You can discuss the slave trade in another thread/forum

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237674#Comment_120237674

How is this comment furthering the debate in any way? What are you trying to achieve here?

I was simply asking had we any data that they actually have no skills. Apparently it's just a trope being propped up on the threadbare logic that they didn't apply for a skills based visa, so they all must be unskilled? This stereotype has been thrown around at the Ukrainians as well without substantiation.

UsBus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235661#Comment_120235661

Congrats caller, that's the phrase that pays, biNGO......

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237979#Comment_120237979

I've long thought that the far left here would take some steps too far that would actually result in at least a partial retrenchment of the liberalism and the power of NGO's of the last decades. It was hard to believe the arrogance of one of them "warning" the government over their use of language this morning. A government who is responsible for a huge chunk of his charities revenue.

Social policy has been an area with a lot of movement and the State has changed a lot under this policy area in recent years. Now the winds of change are blowing I wonder how much inertia the State has in its ever leftward march. Maybe it's a storm that will pass though.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120238351#Comment_120238351

We know this was organised by the far right for a fact. The 'protest march' in Liverpool was arranged and publicised at short notice on Telegram channels by various far right groups that evening. No "concerned citizens".....these groups had already been discussing the hotel in online posts for a good two weeks beforehand.

mikemac2

Edited out

Backstreet Moyes

My first time in town for a few weeks this morning.

I have never seen so many people in door ways or on the street in sleeping bags.

The sleeping bags I'm sure cold and wet from the rain.

Congratulations to the government and all the cheerleaders for increasing homelessness.

Ye must be proud watching the number of people living on the streets.

A change of policy is badly needed and quick before our streets are full of people.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120238615#Comment_120238615

It's all documented that those scum were involved so I'm not sure why anyone would deny it unless they are sympathisers.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120238948#Comment_120238948

Government policy does not happen by magic. The voters don't want the housing crisis solved, they want the "everyone should own a house" crisis solved and that is not the same thing. The day attitudes change is will be the first opportunity to solve the housing crisis and not until then. To solve the housing crisis requires people to accept that they can't all own a house, just like in the rest of Europe, so sadly, there will need to be a lot more pain before we see any movement.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120239360#Comment_120239360

It is abundantly clear to young people they can't own a house in this country or in most cases find a place to rent.

It's why so many of our brightest from college or those finishing up learning a trade are emigrating to other countries.

Fair play to the likes of Australia getting in skilled people who will benefit the country.

While we are replacing our brightest with illegals who are a drain on the country.

This country is going to be in some state in the next 10 years and its scary when you consider how bad it is already.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120239360#Comment_120239360

I think you are wrong saying voters/people "don't want the housing crisis solved, they want the "everyone should own a house" crisis solved and that is not the same thing. " and we have heard this from government and their supporters time and time again. What people want is to have the ability to either buy or rent accommodation/housing at reasonable rates and where there is a supply. At the moment there is none of that, most house prices for people buying are out of reach and there is a lack of availability in the rental sector. To assume as you have that "everyone should own a house" is the issue is the wrong and the reason why this is not being solved. People have different requirements for living somewhere, some want to rent but can't because there is nowhere to rent or that the rent is sky high. Yes others do want to buy a house but can't because again there the prices of the house is too high and again there is a lack of options. There needs to be the options for those who want to rent to rent either privately or publicly at the moment they can do neither and the same for housing where people can either buy privately if the have the means or publicly if make whatever criteria there is for public housing. But to narrow it down to just " everyone should own a house" is wrong and is why this problem is not being solved. It actually very sad and disappointing to see that type of post.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120239360#Comment_120239360

To solve the housing crisis requires people to accept that they can't all own a house

This is essentially an admission that our quality of life is declining because of modernist worldviews. You wouldn't dare admit that of course being a modernist, but this was not the norm not so long ago. Everyone I know above a certain age owns a home, it was completely mainstream to own a home by a certain age in Ireland only 10 or 15 years ago. Yet now the people who promote this world and will continue to promote it, essentially tell us all that we should just deal with the decline.

Backstreet Moyes

It's ironic when you think of it.

People with little means to offer anything to our country are illegally coming here for a better life.

Irish kids who should be the future of the country are moving to other countries for a better life.

We are basically educating our kids for the benefit of Australia and Canada while replacing them with illegals who cannot support themselves.

The likes of Australia must be laughing at us.

We need a zero refugee policy on illegals and immediately, enough damage has been done.

clytemnestra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120239793#Comment_120239793

It's bitterly ironic. I know several young Irish people who are educated and skilled, currently leaving because this country cannot offer them a decent life. I've lived through that before as I was a teenager in the 1980s. But no matter how bad things got back then, we couldn't have imagined the plot twist of our country filling up with randoms from all over the globe, people who have no interest in our history, traditions or culture, and many of whom are unemployed and unemployable. We just could not have imagined anything so cruel and destructive.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120239793#Comment_120239793

Is that not a contradiction? You're saying that Irish people who move abroad are valuable assets and bring a lot to their new country but people who come here have nothing to offer.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240254#Comment_120240254

EDIT to null. Pointless responding.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240254#Comment_120240254

I said the word illegals have nothing to offer.

I am not sure if you don't understand the word or deliberately ignored it.

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240254#Comment_120240254

I don’t know how many times it needs to be explained to you that illegal chancers coming into this country to go into direct provision are not the same as an Irish person (who will usually have a skill or a degree) emigrating to Australia/Canada.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240254#Comment_120240254

It's a false premise, unsurprisingly.

More Irish nationals immigrated back to Ireland than left in the past 3 years.

Highest returning amount since 2007 last year.

The anecdotes don't correlate with actually reality.

Also it's not the 1980s anymore, people are emigrating because they want to not because they have to.

10 years ago when we bulldozing housing estates net outward migration of Irish nationals was very high.

Also rough sleepers have very little to with housing stock as their problems are far more acute, there was more rough sleepers in the capital during the boom then there is now.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240460#Comment_120240460

People are arriving in ireland illegally.

They are referred to as illegal immigrants.

You know what the term illegal immigrant means.

Have you anything to add besides calling me a bigot for referring to them by the correct term?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240598#Comment_120240598

People are arriving in ireland illegally.

They are referred to as illegal immigrants.

You know what the term illegal immigrant means.

I know it gets thrown around far too often as a slur.

And being an illegal migrant doesn't mean you lost all your life skills. In fact in the US a particular issue is businesses taking immense advantage of undocumented laborers, far from having no skills. 8 of 11 million 'illegals' are participants in the labor force, account for 5% of the US workforce (Pew Research Center).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240604#Comment_120240604

Still though, skills or no skills is irrelevant when it comes to illegal immigrants. Come in illegally and you have to go.

That's the whole point of having borders and a visa application system.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240430#Comment_120240430

But a majority here are claiming that refugees who come here are not refugees at all and are in fact "economic migrants" of a young working age who are seeking to better themselves. Wouldn't that mean they are perfectly employable in fact?

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240604#Comment_120240604

Illegal immigrants can't work for 6 months I believe when they arrive in ireland.

How exactly are they going to contribute to the country.

Again why do you keep bringing up America in a topic about refugees in ireland, it is completely off topic and nothing to do with ireland.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240430#Comment_120240430

Of course they are, did you not see the videos of them rioting in citywest a few weeks ago.

Doctors vs engineers apparently, totally frustrated at being unable to work and contribute to our pensions!

The Canadians n Australians are idiots and/or racist for not allowing them in.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120239562#Comment_120239562

What about your blood diamond? 😉

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240643#Comment_120240643

Not really no considering many don’t have a word of English, will only work in low skill jobs that Irish people will have to compete with them for and will drive down wages.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240604#Comment_120240604

Since you are so concerned and knowledgeable with the USA, lets say I as an Irish Citizen leaves Shannon Airport to fly to Chicago, and once I arrive in O'Hare, I suddenly have no passport or documentation to prove my national identity. What's going to happen in that situation?

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240819#Comment_120240819

You get put up in a hotel til the yanks get through the backlog, then you get your foreva home and you then repatriate your family over. Every country does this ,don't they?!

cal naughton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240643#Comment_120240643

While in some respect they are employable in some capacity, the irony is the ideal starter industry where they could get a job in, Hotels and other hospitality have been virtually wiped out due hosting of fellow migrants.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240642#Comment_120240642

Say it’s irrelevant again to the employers of over 8 million illegals in the US

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120240819#Comment_120240819

Unlike Ireland the US has a great flight visa pleclearance program. You wouldn’t even be allowed to board the flight before being booked in by US Customs at Shannon. A solution I’ve proposed Ireland do. Then someone complained that Ireland couldn’t possibly preclear from all the arrival points so I suggested limit the number of arrival points and preclear those, that was deemed too restrictive. The zero refugee people have to decide if they want to eat the cake or have it.