Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120242534#Comment_120242534

does it have a zero refugee policy?

policies change.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243650#Comment_120243650

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I get perplexed everytime you quote a post of mine because you respond with something that has no relevance to what I said.

I asked you a simple yes or no question.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243677#Comment_120243677

Are they allowed to work in the US at all?

Your question missed the point, hence the insistence on such a nonsense binary answer:

Employers are required to refuse to hire, or terminate, an undocumentedworker once they learn of her lack of work authorization. The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) makes it illegal for employers to knowingly hire or continue to employ undocumented workers.

in spite of this, 8 million are working

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243693#Comment_120243693

I am talking about ireland in a thread about refugee policy in ireland.

Why are you quoting me about immigrants in America.

I am not discussing America in a thread related to ireland and I have no idea why you are either.

It has nothing to do with the thread and is off topic, which has been pointed out and ignored by you several times.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243721#Comment_120243721

But I thought we should take an American approach, seems to be the feeling in the last couple of pages by people who clearly don't know what an American approach is.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243764#Comment_120243764

Maybe you should take that up with them.

If I suggested such a thing in the last few pages quote that post and I will respond.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243764#Comment_120243764

America doesn’t know what an American approach is :) but we still preclear the flights. As to people working even when disallowed, millions do. And Ireland could change its work laws as easily as its refugee policy so I don’t know why some people are acting like the 6 month rule is either set in stone or not being abused already anyway.

Juran

US is 140 times larger (surface area) than Ireland, with 335M population, compared with 5M in Ireland. Currently open vacancies in the states is 11M. Yes, 11M jobs needs to be filled right now, with less than 9M officially unemployed. US has huge wealth and a high GDP compared with Ireland, fuelled by Industries such as Finance, Tech & IT, Pharma/Medical, Agriculture, Automotive, Aviation, Oil, Gas, Military equipment, tourism, etc. US has thousands of hospitals, clinics, healthcare centers, both private and public. There are more schools and colleges/Universities in the US than the whole of Europe combined.

There is just no way Ireland can be compared with the states on the topic of illegal migrants.

I dont agree with entering a country illegal. But the simple fact is that the US can absorb illegal workers (cleaners, carers, constructiin, farm workers, etc), whereas Ireland cannot. There is limited oppurtunities for illegal work in Ireland, its too small a country and economy. Think of cash in hand jobs ? Child minding .... it will be a local lady who you know and trust. Car wash workers .. there are only so many car washes in Ireland. Trawler fishing ? Most employers can get work permits for non EU fishing workers, they get spot checks by the navy and Irish Fishery Authorities quite a bit, they dont employ too many illegals. Carers ? Nearly all Philippines with work permits. Some Brazilian women with no permits, but a tiny %.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243810#Comment_120243810

540 planes a day arrive into Dublin airport, so you want to shut the airport down by 7.30am and employ thousands upon thousands of border patrol, and who's going to pay for the return flights?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243896#Comment_120243896

Do you want “zero refugees” or not?

(why thousands for 500 flights to 1 airport? You don’t need to kill the staff off and rehire after they check each flight)

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243903#Comment_120243903

Well, if by his suggestion you need officers plural on every flight, and I'm assuming they want full background checks, that's gonna take time and bodies, you'd also need them at the ferry ports, that's thousands, and the border to the north, but wait can't do that......

I'm starting to think lads haven't thought this through.

Economics101

I see the Irish Times ultra-permissive line on immigration is getting up the nose of at least one reader. I'm mildly surprised they published the letter.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/2023/02/15/asylum-system-and-public-debate/

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243944#Comment_120243944

On the flights like a U.S. Marshall would be OTT. Just need the means to check in and pre clear their passports before they get on the flight so destruction on arrival is next to meaningless.

bertieinexile

DUBLIN

Eastwall – 15th Feb, Wed 6pm / Location: Eastwall Road

North Inner City, Dublin – 15th Feb, 6pm / Location: 5 Lamps

Sheriff St, Dublin – 15th Feb / Location: Sheirff St. Church

Coolock – 15th Feb, Wed

Ballymun, Dublin – 17th Feb, Fri 6pm

LOUTH

Drogheda – 19th Feb, Sun 1.30pm

WESTMEATH

Mullingar , Co.Weathmeath– 16th Feb, Thur 7pm / Location: Army Barracks

GALWAY

Tuam, Galway – 16th Feb, Thur 7pm / Location: Tuam Cathedral Carpark (assembly point)

OFFALY

Kilcormac – 17th Feb, Fri 6pm

CAVAN

Cootehill – 18th Feb, Sat 2pm / Location: The Pig Market (assembly point)

KERRY

Listowel Sun 19th 1pm

CORK

Fermoy Thurs 16th 6pm

MrMusician18

Looks like things are about to get tougher for the State. If this refugee is successful then I have no idea how they'll deal with it

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2023/0215/1356857-courts-asylum/

Juran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245192#Comment_120245192

I wonder are the courts going to ask why he passed through several safe countires, including 7 months spent in France, before arriving in Ireland.

I can't understand why the Dublin convention is not being applied by European countries who all wanted it, signed up for it, yet no one seems to be implementing it ??

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243968#Comment_120243968

Why are you try to turn this into an American issue?

Maybe you'd feel more comfortable commenting on American refugee threads.

hotmail.com

Looks like a huge amount of the population is far right now according to the opinion poll for Virgin Media tonight.

US3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245516#Comment_120245516

What poll, what were the results?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245511#Comment_120245511

You are mistaken.

It's an Irish issue that there is inadequate preclearance for inbound air travel, which is causing a run on people entering the state with destroyed documents. That's an Irish issue. And it was asked how the US would handle it and it was thusly explained, pre-clear your passengers before they fly in. That's an attainable goal that helps a country further control its zero to nth refugee policy or policies.

DebDynamite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245446#Comment_120245446

Would be interesting to know if he applied for asylum in any of the 3 countries where he lived in each for over 6 months. If so, aren’t the state well within their rights to send him back to first country he applied for asylum in?

Dr Turk Turkelton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245556#Comment_120245556

I heard it on the Virgin media news around 6.30.

I think it said a Red C poll had 66% saying we had enough refugees here and I'm almost sure it said Ukrainian.

I didn't hear the other figures.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243904#Comment_120243904

What's an ethically Irish person Potatoman? 😉

minimary

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245565#Comment_120245565

If Leo wanted to show us that it wasn't just rhetoric and he was being firm and fair on asylum he would make sure every single person that arrived on that container was sent back to France asap.

BlueSkyDreams

On the US comparison, the US has a cap of 125k asylum seekers for 2023.

Obama had a cap of 85k not that long ago. When the population of the US was over 320 million.

Ireland has 5 million population and admiited approx 80k last year.

Either someone is taking way too many or someone is taking in way too few...

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245624#Comment_120245624

I'd argue the latter, but your figures are spot on.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245446#Comment_120245446

Just so you know where your money goes as a taxpayer, you are paying for the State's lawyers, the judge, the court, partially for this guys representatives (Irish refugee council are providing the legal for him) and finally for his support and likely accommodation after this.

This is all after he's passed through several safe countries where he stayed many months.

When you see all that are making bank out of this farce, you can see why it continues.

buzzerxx

https://www.facebook.com/1766728306/posts/pfbid09uSt8uMwUcVRA2oEJUQp1JJH64VKUg9V3PuzeqBwf4cPs9uGs73vA47WTHxYDFVHl/ How many warnings does government need ?

minimary

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243967#Comment_120243967

When the Day report came out I wrote a letter to the editor about it. It wasn't published and I'm under no illusion that anyone has a right to be published but they posted zero letters to the editor about it. I can't have been the only one who wrote in that it was a mistake or even I'm sure some people would have written in favour of it but they just avoided the topic.

The protests have thrown open the Overton window on this. Which is great its just a pity that rational debate on this issue was silenced for so long. We mightn't be in the mess we're in if all debate on the issue hadn't been stiffled for so long

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244625#Comment_120244625

Tuam seems an unusual place for a protest ?, would they place immigrants in a town with so many travellers ?

then again it’s not like you could hold one in Galway city , place is full of WOKE leftists

DebDynamite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246185#Comment_120246185

What was this? Seems to be gone from Facebook now.

antiskeptic

Clearly it can't be that every safe country on the way to us absorbs all refugees. Otherwise the countries surrounding the areas the US carries out it wars will have to take all the refugees!

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246259#Comment_120246259

It should still be stressed that the protests are relatively small in number. How many people have physically participated in an anti-refugee protest in Ireland in the last three weeks or so.....perhaps 5000 in total? You have a small amount of people making a huge amount of noise on social media and trying to give the impression they are some sort of 'silent majority'. Certainly immigration has come onto the radar in the last 12 months or so because of the Ukraine refugee situation and the accommodation shortages, but the idea that an anti-immigration party is going to hoover up 20% of the votes at the next general election is very hard to believe.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246415#Comment_120246415

The majority is wondering where these people are going to go?

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245192#Comment_120245192

The article says "The man then sought help from the Irish Refugee Council Independent Law Centre, which is assisting him with his case."

Most likely, they went looking for him. But they should be careful what they wish for. With Irish sentiment now turning sour, the spectre of these welfare tourists wasting more of our money in frivolous lawsuits is only going to engender further ill-will. The Irish Refugee Council should stop prioritizing their own careers and refrain from trying to line the pockets of their buddies in legal profession. We can all see through this racket for what it is.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246440#Comment_120246440

For sure, but is that the No.1 issue facing the country? It strikes me as more of an abstract issue that is in the news daily than something that is directly impacting on people's live - 99.9% of Irish people don't live in a hotel or a direct provision centre or an army barracks etc.

Things like the housing and rent crisis, overcrowded A&Es, cost of living crisis, energy bills etc are events that are very directly impacting on people across the country on a daily basis.

clytemnestra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245192#Comment_120245192

There are 40 million people in Afghanistan. It'd be quite the legal precedent if this guy won.

Amazing how Irish people aren't suing the state when they're forced to live with their parents til they're 40 or emigrate. I would say this guy has a neck on him like the jockey's proverbial but as a previous poster said, it's more likely that he was sought out by the treasonous grifters in some NGO.

minimary

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246471#Comment_120246471

We would likely have never known without them taking this case that containers of people are coming from France. What are the Gardai doing about this and why was this not caught when the container was leaving France?

Aurelian

Now that they are starting to build quiet significant modular estates for Ukrainians around the country I think it will become a more concrete issue for more people. A few more communities will start to see themselves as being in competition for housing and resources. I've seen these comments already. This will feed into politics outside of East Wall, Ballymun etc.

Montage of Feck

This debate is infuriating. Had a look at the debate currently on tv3, some joe soap getting an earful, for questing the housing of refugees in his town, from some Karen and a labour senator.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246586#Comment_120246586

All 4 of them are weak - all over the shop. The guy from Lismore was making a very poor argument.

emo72

The guy from Lismore was making a very good argument.

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246577#Comment_120246577

Despite the "women and children" narrative that has shielded this from any scrutiny, I suspect most Ukrainians are economic migrants. Ukraine is the largest country in Europe (e.g., bigger than France) and vast swathes of the country are perfectly safe. We've now spent 600+ million on this so far, and there's just no end in sight. People would be right to be vexed at non-natives being prioritized over them during a housing crisis.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246661#Comment_120246661

Well it's known that some Ukrainians living in other countries in Europe came here when the war started.

They're taking advantage of the visa system. Good luck to them.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246554#Comment_120246554

But the housing crisis, A&E overcrowding, school places and infrastructure etc are linked to uncontrolled immigration and people are feeling that. More people will feel it too if immigration goes on unchecked.

I am not saying we shouldnt help asylum seekers. We should. But its not unreasonable for people to be worried about their infrastructre being eroded, without any end in sight to the influx.

I dont agree with this concern personally, but i do understand it and the people expressing it should be listened to.

if we dont listen to peoples concerns, those concerns will just amplify.

The protests are only getting started. Unless the govt explains, empathises and responds to the sections of society that are generally worried.

And im not talking about the right wing extremists here. I am talking about normal people.

Look at the polls and read the room.

Disconnect the prostest extremists from those that want to see a change in immigration approach, which is now the majority of the popation it would seem.

If we dont do that, we will pay the price as a society. we are adding fuel to the fire without realising it.

The govt is doing an appauling job of engaging with peoples concerns.

Those concerns will not go away.

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246559#Comment_120246559

It just highlights the character of the Irish Refugee Council. After ROG has funneled millions in their direction over the past few years, and has very likely destroyed his career by pandering to them, they now turn around and take their lapdog to court. (Curiously, it doesn't appear any of the Council took this Afghan guy home themselves. Needless to say, he's just a useful pawn in their lucrative asylum racket.)

clytemnestra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246577#Comment_120246577

I've seen and heard the rage firsthand and I can't blame them. I live in an area where there's a real struggle for accommodation and the repurposing of empty buildings for Ukrainians has gone down exactly as you'd think it would. I really feel like we're in Bizarro World here. There have always been global conflicts and famines and poverty; it feels like the greatest bait and switch for the people in charge to make out that it's our problem to solve for evermore. Sorry if that sounds harsh. I grew up with the Trocaire box and Live Aid and Concern. We had a conscience, we boycotted businesses that traded with apartheid South Africa, we protested foreign wars we thought were unjust. But how we came to this is just mind-bending, where we're importing tens of thousands of people a year and meekly giving up our resources when we have so many of our own problems that are getting worse, and our young are emigrating in droves again.

antiskeptic

The Ukraine/Russia war is the result of longstanding US foreign policy aimed at bringing Russia to heel. Russia is enormously rich in natural resources - oil/gas is but one of many Russian jewels.

What rapicious US corporation wouldn't lust after her?

The US has been seeking to overturn the apple cart ever since Putin replaced the malleable alcoholic, Yeltsin. For Putin restored a sovereignty lost at the collapse of the USSR.

Most recently, the US carried out a violent coup in Ukraine in 2014 (a.k.a.Maidan) and installed a puppet government. Victoria Nuland was even recorded discussing the US pick for the Ukrainian presidency. When queried on what Europe might think of that she said "F**k the EU"

Ballsy or what?

The US then spent the next 8 years arming and training a far right (i.e. Nazi ideology, AZOV) controlled military, which has engaged in a relentless attack on ethic Russian areas in the East of Ukraine.

The Minsk accords, supposedly aimed at resolving that conflict, were a sham. Poreshenko, Merkel and Hollande have all stated that the purpose of Minsk wasn't peace but were rather, a decoy to stall Russian action and give Ukraine time to arm).

Russia, who as far back as 2008 warned the US that Ukraine was a redline (on a par with Cuba in the 60's). Indeed, the now-CIA director, William Burns wrote a memo back then entitled 'Nyet means Nyet (No means No)'. It spelled out the fact that Russia would not and could not allow NATO encroachment via Ukraine. It was simply a step to far.

And if you look at a map of the region (with Russia-allied Belarus and the Black Sea as buffer regions between Russia and NATO) you'll understand why Ukraine was a step to far.

Or a bridge too far. For Ukraine is being slaughtered. The gloves aren't fully off, even now, but Russia has geared up and is in the process of totally squashing Ukrainian resistance.

And so you're beginning to hear talk of defeat in the mainstream media. The public is being prepared and shaped for the inevitable Western abandonment of Ukraine. "Insufficient artillery ammo - Ukraine in trouble" shouts The Gourdian. That fact was known 6 months ago when the Ukrainians used up all their Soviet era shells and the West had to start supplying guns that fit Western sized ammo. And scrape around former Soviet bloc countries for whatever they had lying around.

The US is great at starting wars and then losing wars and then abandoning ship. You'll recall the flight from Afghanistan.

[factoid: did you know that Big Bad Vlod Zelensky is, by birth, a Russian speaker? He only recently took a crash course in Ukrainian and isn't particularly fluent)

It is worth underlining the time remove: a 2008 warning from one big/nuclear power to another big/nuclear power to "gtf away from my backyard".

Big power's tend to have a say in such things... "Sovereignty" notwithstanding.

Look at a history book, if you're inclined to wave a flimsy bit of paper called 'international law/ peace in our time'.

Multiple warnings were issued in the interim and "peace treaties" trampled over by the West (Minsk 1 and 2). Until finally Russia decided to act.

And act with a soft glove on.

There was none of the 44 days of the carpet bombing of civilian Infrastructure that the US engaged in - before so much as a single US boot landed on the ground. The US way, as is the way of true war, was to flatten Iraq first. Why would you not??.

Not so the Russians in their Slavic neighbour. A year in and they still haven't flattened Ukraine. When they so easily could have

We, Ireland, ought not partake in supporting US foreign policy by succumbing so willingly to the US driven narrative.

One result of that is the influx of Ukrainian 'refugees'. We ought to be doing as Clare and Mick (for all their faults) are doing in calling out the US/EU on this matter. They don't absolve Russia but they do call out the US and EU connivance.

Some hope, given we allow the US military to fly in and out of the country at will. Some hope given we allow the US to destroy a critical piece of EU infrastructure and send gas prices thro' the roof and industry abroad. Funny that: the radio silence re: the most significant terrorist act since 9/11

Some hope given our sucking on the nipple of US FDI investment and our turning a blind eye to the REAL reason why US corporations invest here (what kind of crackpot banana Republic fights AGAINST their being awarded 10 billion € from a tax dodging rotten Apple operating in their jurisdiction??)

Let's face it folks, it isn't due to our speaking English or the temperature of the Guinness or the Craic(t/m)

As the man said: "they don't get to be big by being nice guys". As anyone who's worked for a US multinational knows well...

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246718#Comment_120246718

The swift and ignominious fall of Nicola Sturgeon shows what can happen politically when politicians fail to read the room. Our lot should take heed.

maebee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246744#Comment_120246744

Wrong thread for your twisted thoughts. Post them in https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058195983/russia-threadbanned-users-in-op#latest