Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329129#Comment_121329129

It's grand so long as it's just words in a supermarket (well it's not, but howandever) - the problems start when it gets to scene like we saw a while back in the Citywest centre.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329203#Comment_121329203

This is as much about accommodation shortages in general though as anything to do with refugees / asylum seekers. Homeless families were being put up in hotels eight or nine years ago (there were numerous reports about it on the likes of RTE News and Prime Time back then).

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329702#Comment_121329702

But there is only what, about ten or 15 thousand Irish homeless in hotels, and that is the highest levels ever. Very few of them are in hotels in isolated tourist areas. What we are experiencing is permanent replacement of the tourist industry with the asylum seeker industry.

The policy to permanently take in large numbers of asylum seekers is not an issue caused by the accommodation crises but an issue which massively exacerbates it.

Spanish Eyes

Any sign of an "influx" in the leafy suburbs of our cities yet? You know - the salubrious areas where the decision makers on the Ukraine and IP situation live.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329033#Comment_121329033

Bear in mind that if a bogus AS directly spoke to Conor Pope, and told him about the bogus claim, Conor Pope would still not believe it.

marno21

There was a referendum in Australia a few weeks ago about Indigenous rights. It was defeated quite comprehensively (60-40). It was firstly to recognise Australia's first peoples in the constitution and secondly to provide for a constitutional body who would be able to make representations to the Government relating to first people's issues. Before the referendum, the PM (who lives in the constituency that had the 2nd highest yes vote in the country) was warned that the referendum was unlikely to pass because the first part of the referendum was very popular across the country and a referendum on recognition alone would have passed, but that the 2nd part of the referendum (the Voice to Parliament) was quite contentious and was unlikely to meet the difficult requirements for a referendum to pass in Australia (50% of the vote nationally and 50% in at least 4 of the 6 states). As the referendum date came closer, it became clear it was not going to pass but the PM kept making comments along the lines of "it's time to do the right thing" etc.

The referendum passed in electoral districts that are urban, full of relatively well off homeowners (coastal suburbs of Sydney, central Melbourne, Canberra) and got defeated in rural areas in the main. It also got fairly well defeated in constituencies that are full of commuters, renters, people under mortgage stress (western Sydney suburbs for example). When observing this, I was very much reminded of the content of this thread and how this is playing out in Ireland. We currently have a Government of 3 TDs from suburbs like this, where quite a few people have personal circumstances which allow them to focus on social issues rather than figuring out how to pay the next mortgage or rent payment. People outside of the wealthier constituencies cannot relate to this intense focus on social issues and it leads to some of the long term bitterness and rancour we are seeing in this country now against the Government.

There are 2 immediate issues relating to the business of immigration since Roderic O'Gorman and this Government began steering the ship.

1. There is going to be significant long term bitterness against the Government because hard working taxpayers (people paying 46% tax on every euro over 42,000, people who can't afford a house (you can get a house in this country if you earn less than the social housing cutoff point or if you earn over 100k, there are quite a few people in that mid range who will be peeved), people who can't get access to GP services, people stuck commuting long distances especially in Dublin, public service workers on **** money (teachers wondering if it's actual Government policy to make them move to the middle east so they can afford a house deposit and nurses wondering if it's actual Government policy to make them move to New South Wales so they can afford a house deposit) etc. These people aren't living the life of Riley, and are quite frequently under financial stress especially given inflation over the last 2 years, aside from the housing issue. When they see non taxpayers arriving into the country and getting automatic entitlement to accomodation, meals, medical cards, education, transport etc, it does not work out well for the Government. Case in point when Neil Prendeville's interview with Micheal Martin a few weeks back.
2. This Government and the last one have been extremely fortunate in that every year they seem to win the lottery with ever increasing corporation tax windfalls. Despite repeated claims that they can't be relied on and will eventually come to an end, the country has been operating on the basis that they can be relied on. Instead of using one off, windfall money on one off projects like Metro or much needed motorways, the State has been using such money to embark on widening the HSE budget with more permanent spending to cover gross budget mismanagement, or initiatives like this one which is costing 10 figures annually now. If we get a significant reduction in corporation tax payments, where do the budget cuts commence? Do we slash the capital budget like we did in 2011? Do we cancel MetroLink, which is needed to open up vast swathes of land which can be used to build tens of thousands of apartments? Do we cut needed roads projects, which will see people killed annually on desperate stretches of roads? Do we cancel new hospitals etc?

As you can see, I haven't mentioned race or integration or anything like that. I'm just criticising terrible Government policy, which for some reason in this Government gross incompetence is permitted if it's related to a so called woke issue or something to do with the environment. I heard a Government Minister last week defend the policy of having thousands of hotel rooms occupied in certain towns even if small businesses went to the wall. It seems that the absolute mess in the Dept of Integration is being defended by Government ministers wholesale for fear that any criticism of these policies may come across as racist. Like the referendum in Australia, there is a large proportion of the country deeply uncomfortable with these policies. And like here, there will be no shouting and roaring at the rooftops, the shouting and roaring will be done at the ballot box.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329944#Comment_121329944

I disagree with you on the ballot box. All the government and main opposition parties are aligned with the current policies on asylum seekers. The policies cannot be changed by vote. They can only change if EU policy changes first. We will do as we are told.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330012#Comment_121330012

It will to a certain extent, there will be more votes for independents and more aggro in the lead up to the election. But as you say, all Government and opposition parties are aligned, which is even more worrying, because some people will vote for Sinn Fein thinking they are an "alternative" and then during the next Government will learn that they are no such thing. Which makes you wonder, what then?

The next election will likely provide an opening for a new movement in Irish politics. It'd be nice if it was an Australian style National party which would advocate for the interests of centre right voters outside of the urban so called woke bubble constituencies, but I fear if it's like the reaction to these policies in other European countries it might be something worse.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328412#Comment_121328412

Self explanatory?. Best boys in the class hold on to low Corp tax. Ohwait they didnt.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330163#Comment_121330163

Exactly.

We agreed to raise to 15% ages ago.

Our policy on Refugees is nothing to do with our CTR.

Leo is actually sounding the drum to tighten up on payments for Ukranians and stated that they are coming in from other safe countries to Ireland.

The change in rhetoric is interesting & also coincides with a bump for FG in the polls.

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330179#Comment_121330179

The only reason Leo is sounding the drum is because he can see what way the wind is blowing, transparent as a plate glass window that lad, there's nothing to him when the first slimy layer is peeled away imo

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327965#Comment_121327965

Axxxxxe was sacked from his position by Netanyahu for his comments, but you think its worth quoting??!

Says it all....

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330232#Comment_121330232

It does seem to be a different tune alright.

But he did qualify the fact that ireland remains open to Refugees and Asylum Seekers, despite our accomodation challenges.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330033#Comment_121330033

there will be more votes for independents 

What indication is there for this? This poll tracker is putting inde0pendents exactly where they were at the last election

https://www.redcresearch.ie/latest-polls/live-polling-tracker/

This guy is projecting four fewer seats for them, despite the increase in TD numbers

https://irishelectionprojections.com/2023/09/10/projecting-seats-from-the-redrawn-constituencies-2023/

ShamNNspace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330279#Comment_121330279

Eliyahu, the heritage minister was suspended not sacked from his position at the time of writing, there's quite a difference between being suspended and being sacked imv

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330279#Comment_121330279

The narrative has shifted to why would the Israel minister say Palestinians should 'go to Ireland or deserts' as opposed to any other country in the world. What prompted that comment?

MagicJohn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330279#Comment_121330279

Do try to keep up - it was a news feature on the Pravda Six One News.

US3

People who come here illegaly are victims and will not be deported

On RTÉ Radio 1's Morning Ireland, Minister for Justice Helen McEntee said that undocumented victims of human trafficking who report to authorities will not be deported

malinheader

One third of all refugees from Ukraine arriving into Ireland are leaving accommodation and shelter in other EU members states.

Must be the scenery.

Patrick2010

Obviously nothing to do with the benefits

thinkabouit

Locals aren’t happy in Cashel about this.

Protest’s planned also but listening to tippfm this morning the lack of consultation & lack of info is what’s causing concern.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331727#Comment_121331727

And all young males.

It's a disaster waiting to happen. But you will soon find out where the concerns of your politicians and councillors lye.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331483#Comment_121331483

That's why people should not be allowed into the country without documentation to stop human trafficking. Also it's her department That's not fit for purpose making it so easy for trafficking. This country has not got enough immigration control or any control over mass arrivals.

thinkabouit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331843#Comment_121331843

100%

And here’s the thing,

there’s only a part time Garda station in Cashel & that’s closing in a few weeks for renovation’s. Nearest garda station will be in Tipperary town or Cahir, both 20 mins away.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331989#Comment_121331989

McEntee herself isn't fit for purpose - particularly as Minister for Justice, but even as a TD. She's the most inept, underqualified and thus dangerous senior politician we've seen in a long long time IMO and that is because her current post is such a critical one and which she is failing badly in.

Yet again she's more interested in virtue-signalling nonsense than the consequences these decisions will have on our country - not just now but for the next several decades. Of course she won't be impacted by these regardless.. it'll be her consituents and the rest of us that deal with the fallout (as several countries in Europe are struggling with even as I type this).

As bad as I think SF will be, FG and particularly its senior ministers need to go. I will keep saying this.... look back over the last decade of FG in Government and tell me if things are better now, or worse under their watch. What they haven't sold off, they've messed up to the point of farce and while people are struggling to pay bills or find a home they're busy welcoming any randomer with a sad story with a benefts package that has become internationally known! FF are bad enough but FG are much much worse and have proven it every time they've been at the helm.

While McEntee is busy rolling out the welcome mat, baiting for likes and kudos, and handing out citizenship like cereal packet prizes, the Gardai are quitting because of low morale and the revolving door justice system that she's responsible for, small communties are having dozens or hundreds of new arrivals dumped on their door with little to no warning or supports, and the signs that the magic money tree of Corporation tax may be dying are starting to emerge - but who cares about any of that? It's only the future of the country and what we will leave our children to deal with that we're talking about!

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332129#Comment_121332129

Not surprised one bit, there is not one bit of thinking or organisation in any of this.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332223#Comment_121332223

Your 100%correct. I quoted in an earlier post that if there was ever a minister in over there depth she is it.

I haven't a clue who I could seriously give my vote to bring a bit of common sense into decisions made for the good of this country.

I'm starting to think having ministers as clueless as mcentee could be a big plus for the government in implementing stupid decisions.

thinkabouit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332223#Comment_121332223

And i don’t think any of this is by accident, there’s a massive transfer of wealth & property going on between the already wealthy.

The rich are getting far far richer faster than ever before through this trafficking.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332316#Comment_121332316

You only have to look at who's at the helm...

• McEntee : See above and my previous posts on this individual. A poster child for the dangers of nepotism and sympathy voting
• Varadkar: Likewise I've posted about him extensively too. Only interested in what will benefit himself, and will change stance according to what he thinks will achieve that
• Martin: His only goal was to not be the only FF leader NOT to be Taoiseach, and he achieved that by keeping FG in Government and handing the reins over to Tony Holohan and NPHET. He's also another one who is beholden to the EU and getting that pat on the head
• Ryan: Do I REALLY need to spell out the issues with having this guy in Government? Ideologues and crusaders are never good choices for the reality of politcs. His lot were still propping up the Government when the IMF were walking the streets, and they're doing it now when the streets are being overrun by junkies and criminals, and we have become a destination for anyone with a sad story at a time when the natives are struggling more than they have since the 1980s in some respects

The alternative is SF who think that the people "down South" care about a United Ireland as a primary aim. Sure, ask anyone in a random poll if they'd support it and the majority will say "yes, of course!" Then ask them about the increased taxes to pay for it, the splitting of investment and infrastructure spending, the further pressure on the HSE and other Government services (the NHS might not be perfect either, but the residents of NI would be mad to give it up for our version!) and the further dilution of their voice in the Dail by the addition and focus on NI issues - I think the second poll might be different!

That leaves either the various shades of left minority parties (no thanks - left-learning politics has gotten us where we are now!), or the gaggle of one-issue Independents - many of whom are ex-FF/FG anyway or more suited to being a local councillor - if that!

Of course, in an age of Coalition between the Big Two and Confidence and Supply agreements, it doesn't really matter anymore who you vote for as the Government will be decided afterwards in deals between them all anyway - and I haven't even mentioned the influence of the EU (much like the Church in the old days).

I know I keep repeating myself as I've said all of the above before - but the future of this country is pretty bleak in a lot of respects when, despite the "PR" of record tax reciepts and supposed wealth (the majority of which is on paper alone and showing signs of drying up), ordinary people have their "kids" living at home into their 30s or can't afford to have any in the first place, we're back to the days of long commutes to work because people can't find/afford a place nearby, and the cost of living isn't going to be getting any easier in the face of all of this, as well as the pressure that the above Ministers and their colleagues have added to all of these things by the free-for-all that is our immigration policy.

Honestly, if it wasn't for family ties here I would strongly consider leaving - but the sad thing is that a lot of other countries (cetainly in Europe) are experiencing many of the same issues and for a lot of the same reasons. I'm not sure how we "fix" it, but the current system isn't working for us here in Ireland anyway.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332520#Comment_121332520

Kaiser, once again a great post with points that no one can disagree.