Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

antiskeptic

You don't want to solve the Ukrainian refugee crisis then? Odd.

antiskeptic

Its good to see that a fall can still be so swift and ignominious. Dread the day when it's not so

antiskeptic

Are you saying the US DIDN'T flatten Iraqi infrastructure (water pumping, power stations, sewage works, communications) for 44 days prior to putting a boot on the ground?

And so create a refugee crisis.

Or are you one of that latest of the Internet discussion forum memes,

The "Whataboutist"?

FYI, I'm old enough to remember the "intellectually dishonest" and the "cognitive dissonance". Terms flung around by those with an inability to think beyond the nose on their faces.

We have a shed load of Ukrainians entering the country. I think it is reasonable to enquire as to why this is so. No?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246718#Comment_120246718

In many cases, the Ukrainian refugees have been moved to lower density parts of the country and far away from urban areas. 3700 in Clare, 4900 in Donegal, 6000 in Kerry, 2800 in Mayo, 1500 in Sligo, 1000 in Cavan, 1000 in Leitrim etc.

I'm not at all convinced that the "pressure on housing, A&Es, schools and infrastructure" arguments even hold up as a result. There are only 3500 Ukrainian refugees in the Dublin city region for example being accommodated by the state.

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120237231#Comment_120237231

No you are wrong, many Irish emigrants came back and helped to build up the place over centuries. Huge numbers. INCLUDING Michael Collins. Some never came back to live but contributed enormously to Irish culture e.g. James Joyce. Some couldn't come back e.g. Patrick Sarsfield, Red Hugh O Neil, Thimas Meagher . In the modern era many came back from UK, US and further afield and many Irish Americans have helped invest billions through multinationals or charitable endeavours or political influence in US.

Saying only those who stayed made the country is simply wrong.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246947#Comment_120246947

To say that the current migration is not effecting those services is folly. You have not tried to access them obviously !!

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244625#Comment_120244625

https://twitter.com/IrexitFreedom/status/1625147441598148610?cxt=HHwWhMC9wZu_140tAAAA

Catchy slogan.

Although there may be some issues if they bring out a range of hats.

https://misa.ie/

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246554#Comment_120246554

And more people in the country impact many of the issues you called out. Is it THE single issue, no, but I would think most people aren't single issue.

We have increased the population by 10 percent with no increase in services, and a reduction in many areas.

We have people living at home unable to buy or rent due to the government outbidding them to house others

So is it the issue for most, absolutely not, but it is a highly emotive issue that can sway voters.

We have already seen a 600 percent increase in people seeing it is the most important issue to them, and that was before the protests had begun.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246661#Comment_120246661

33 percent of the adults from "Ukraine" are men. This women and children thing is bullshit

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246650#Comment_120246650

No he wasn't!

Saying 10% 10% 10% all the time is not an argument. I know what he was trying to say but he was terrible at it.

Saying that ambulance wait times for old people had increased dramatically since the foreigners arrived was a nonsense. Ambulance wait times have been deteriorating for many years. Services have been deteriorating for many years. Obviously it will only make it worse but he needs to learn to be coherent about that argument. He was saying they should send a GP and nurses down with the 10%. Such simplistic nonsense. We already have a shortage of GPs, we can't magic them up or tell them where to go.

He was idiotic, I hope you were being sarcastic.

The presenter clearly thought he was a fool. He won't like the playback.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246926#Comment_120246926

Hold on chief. People don't want balance in these debates. Only groupthink allowed. You'd love the childish war threads - some real heroes in there.

Snake Plisken

Looks like it's the far left extremists we should be worried about following this lunatic driving over a protestor last night

https://twitter.com/VideosIrish/status/1625970674241077260?s=09

Beechwoodspark

Some scummer drove his car through a protest last night - awful.

the bast1rd involved should get life in prison for that.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247217#Comment_120247217

Both sides of the protests are badly led idiots. Cowards too. I am all for the right to protest but they need to end those types of protests - Protest at the Dail or organise them at neutral locations (Merrion Sq, Eyre Sq, Phoenix Park etc). And do them during the day. Protests outside accommodation housing asylum seekers or migrants is shameful and stupid. Both sides.

Beechwoodspark

Protests outside Leinster House are pointless.

Long standing practice from all Politicians is to ignore them

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247239#Comment_120247239

The politicians love these ad hoc rabble protests. They take up all the headlines and the politicians can sit back and blame the fringes etc. It plays right into their hands. Angry idiots and virtue signallers making noise and cancelling each other out.

If the politicians see large well organised well represented protests on a regular basis, they sit up and think one thing......Votes.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247217#Comment_120247217

Looks to me like he tries to avoid protestors and one decides to play a game of chicken with the car. Play stupid games....

Did we find out who dutchie is yet BTW, since we're all so enraged about this.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247231#Comment_120247231

Driving a car at people you disagree with is hardly going to garner support for your position on any issue.

Had this been a pro immigration rally and a car had been driven at attendees we would be hearing about the far right having organised it and how its an indication of the rise of the far right in Ireland.

We should be guarding against all extremist ideologies not just calling out one and ignoring the other.

pjohnson

Thats far less dramatic than it sounded, more man stands infront of a slow moving car rather than actually hit by a car.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247294#Comment_120247294

I couldn't give a fiddlers about that incident. I disagree with the whole concept of late night shouting matches between angry idiots and virtue signallers outside accommodation centres. This isn't news, it's ridiculous noise. The govt politicians love these distractions. Normal people who also have opinions on the migrant problem are put right off by these extremist actions.

The water protests were successful because they were well organised and well represented with huge numbers. The messages were clear. People really felt the govt were trying to sell our precious resource and make the taxpayer pay handsomely for the luxury and the setup waste/corruption. The protests scared the life out of the govt TDs and they backed down. It worked.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247276#Comment_120247276

If a pedestrian walks in front of your vehicle, regardless of their motivations its not acceptable to drive into them.

The videos of this seem to suggest the driver of the car had been interacting with these protestors verbally before this incident occurred, it would appear on the surface at least that there was some element of if not premeditation then at least poor decision making based in animus towards the people protesting.

Aside from the setting and the people involved, driving out of traffic onto the opposite carriageway and turning a corner while the traffic lights are red in full view of the Gardai would seem to indicate a worryingly impulsive mindset that has little regard for their own personal safety or that of people around them.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247322#Comment_120247322

Are you suggesting that driving cars at protestors is something people shouldn't take an interest in?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247340#Comment_120247340

Oh Jesus Christ. "Take an interest in" 😂. I don't care. Honestly I don't. Zero interest. Don't make the thread about this - it's an utterly pointless distraction. I hold both sides in utter contempt. You're really boring me to tears now if this is the discussion for the day. If you cannot understand the point I am trying to make, that's on you. Go back and respond to the actual point of my post.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247315#Comment_120247315

Agreed. Could be some poor schmuck who just spent 12 hours in the office eating $hit from his boss, trying to get home to watch the match.

Gets stuck behind that rabble and just said **** this I'm not doing a uturn!

If the drivers an immigrant tho all bets are off 🤣

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247330#Comment_120247330

If a pedestrian walks in front of your vehicle, regardless of their motivations its not acceptable to drive into them.

Basic inertia and physics dictate that standing in front of a moving vehicle and thinking it can stop on a sixpence is stupidity in action.

The videos of this seem to suggest the driver of the car had interacting with these protestors verbally before this incident occurred, it would appear of the surface at least that there was some element of if not premeditation then at least poor decision making based in animus towards the people protesting.

I await a video from the street then, surely a lunatic driving into a group of people would have multiple angles since everyone has their phones out. The only footage I've seen he's going about 10 km an hour.

Aside from the setting and the people involved, driving out of traffic onto the opposite carriageway and turning a corner while the traffic lights are red in full view of the Gardai would seem to indicate a worryingly impulsive mindset that has little regard for their own personal safety or that of people around them.

Not disputing that he broke the rules of the road, but the road was blocked, and we know these idiots won't even move for people going for dialysis, so if there's a gap and you're willing to risk the points good luck to ya.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247276#Comment_120247276

The video says he was driving on the wrong side of the road.

Not sure if it's true but if it is then it was done deliberately.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247224#Comment_120247224

Wasn't the something similar done a week or so ago at another protest a few days ago?

monseiur

The media, especially RTE and of course the government tried to discredit the anti immigrant protesters as far right loonies. A recent poll by a certain newspaper proved otherwise. The fact is that the vast majority of protesters are ordinary folk with genuine concerns and are being ignored. Even Leo Varadaker is late in day changing his tune. Some years ago he, seeking attention and trying to be best boy in the class, stood up at an EU meeting in which migrants crossing the Mediterranean was discussed, and gave a commitment that Ireland would send one of our navy ships to the Mediterranean to pick up African migrants. These migrants were literally dumped on Italy and made their was to France and eventually to UK and Ireland. The lap dog Leo was so eager to please that it never dawned on him that other EU countries surrounding the Med did not offer to help these people smugglers for a very good reason.

bertieinexile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246554#Comment_120246554

For sure, but is that the No.1 issue facing the country? It strikes me as more of an abstract issue that is in the news daily than something that is directly impacting on people's live - 99.9% of Irish people don't live in a hotel or a direct provision centre or an army barracks etc.

I think this post is key to understanding the political situation in the country.

People in the wealthier areas, the decision makers, not only have a different view on immigration, they have a different experience of it.

Nearly 70,000 "refugees" in the country and you've got to take your hat off to Dublin 14. Rathfarnham, Dundrum, Goatstown, etc. have taken in a magnificent total of... 15 refugees. One Five. When you and your wife have mortgaged your life to pay for a house in Dublin 14 you'll be ready to defend it with a ferocity that would put an East Wall mammie to shame.

Congrats Dublin 14. Barely enough refugees for a football team. No subs.

I was at the Christmas concert in a fee paying school in, as it happens, Dublin 14. A good few choirs. Well over a hundred students on stage through the night. One black kid, three asian kids. And good luck to them.

For the decision makers and the people they live beside and socialise with it is, as you say, not "the No.1 issue". It's "more of an abstract issue that is in the news daily than something that is directly impacting on people's lives".

Which explains a lot.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247815#Comment_120247815

I'm actually living in the middle of a working class part of Dublin, surrounded by working class people. But I also don't see any sign of Ukrainian people living near me and there must be a good 30,000 people living in the area. I would still say that much of the outrage over the issue is a manufactured outrage. For sure, people in Ireland are entitled to have strong opinions about the state taking in 75,000 Ukrainian people in the space of a year, but there are clearly many opportunists in the online anti-immigration and anti-refugee lobby trying to hijack the issue and turn it into a rallying point for their brand of right wing politics.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248360#Comment_120248360

Government officials estimate 180k refugees her by the end of the year - do you think this is sustainable?

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0202/1353426-refugee-prediction/#:~:text=Civil%20service%20predicts%20180%2C000%20refugees%20here%20by%20year%20end&text=The%20briefing%20note%20said%20this,that%20by%20end%20of%202023%22.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248513#Comment_120248513

Just for those challenged in reading comprehension. This is not saying 180,000 more refugees this year. Its says to the end of 2022 there was 90k total seeking refuge in the system including 50k Ukrainians. This was not just from 2022 but also included those here previously. It also says "up to twice that by end of 2023". So that includes the 90k already counted, doesn't discount those who leave in the interim and doesn't provide any data to back up the estimate for 2023. The headline implies 180k this year. The article doesn't say that though. When the major war on the continent ends this number will drop back to sustainable levels.

But of course, the country with one of the lowest population densities and highest wealth in the EU is full by all accounts.

Protest the lack of housing spend, not the humans fleeing war

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248513#Comment_120248513

Varadkar said at the weekend he suspects the real number will be considerably lower, perhaps 30 to 40k refugees arriving this year in total:

https://www.independent.ie/news/taoiseach-says-state-may-need-to-provide-accommodation-for-up-to-40000-more-asylum-seekers-42338708.html

Aurelian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248360#Comment_120248360

I agree with you that I don't think there is a huge depth of outrage over it. It's not something I hear from people day to day.

Of course you wouldn't notice a bunch of Ukrainians in an area of 30,000. But there are small towns now where they are building special estates for Ukrainians which will see double digit % population growth in these places overnight. Those places will notice. And in my experience those places aren't objecting to the Ukrainians just concerned about impacts on services and what happens on those sites long term.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248599#Comment_120248599

Who said there'd be 180k more this year? Yeah, no one.

So just build more houses n it'll be grand? Any ideas for who's gonna build them, is there 50k builders sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring?!

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248680#Comment_120248680

Apparently gone are the days (2005?) a contractor would pick a foreigner kid (me) up in the driveway and pay him cash in hand to work a job site or three hey?

Dslatt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246947#Comment_120246947

Right, they are putting them in low density places that have very little services. Portmagees population has doubled for christs sake

Astartes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248692#Comment_120248692

Have you seen the state of tiger properties now?

Thanks, I suppose.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248751#Comment_120248751

Ohhh you can't pin all that on me xD

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248737#Comment_120248737

It's the European way. I remember stories years ago about them dumping a few hundred "refugees" in German villages with tiny populations. Imagine that, a nice small community where you know everyone and live in relative safety one day, the next day your community is not your own anymore because you've been outnumbered by hundreds of foreign men who share few cultural similarities with you.

Dslatt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248842#Comment_120248842

The issue isnt so much the cultural thing it, there is 1 doctor in the village whose patients have now doubled, rural Ireland is incredibly poorly served by public transport, in Killarney particularily so many people relied on employment from the hospitality industry which has been decimated. I've no sympathy for yahoos in Dublin screeching at people fleeing war, they are scum of the earth, but Kerry and Donegal bearing the brunt of the influx is ridiculous.

Snake Plisken

Murphy organizing this coming Saturday. No solutions to the housing shortage

https://gript.ie/paul-murphys-day-of-rage/

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248901#Comment_120248901

What are JOHN MCGUIRK's solutions?

Potatoeman

Anyone cheering this on and not opening their own home is a hypocrite and that includes our deluded politicians.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248652#Comment_120248652

Indeed, and I remember in one community in Kerry that when government officials tried to move Ukrainian people 'out' of the area at very short notice, locals rallied around to ensure that they remained in the area and that the Ukrainian children would be able to remain in the local schools etc - this type of story runs totally counter to the narrative that the online guys are pushing.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248870#Comment_120248870

but Kerry and Donegal bearing the brunt of the influx is ridiculous.

Donegal in particular is madness, seeing as they likely have the highest ratio of people who move to other counties and countries for work. Even if you believe that they are all here looking for jobs, Donegal is not the place that they'll find them.

US3

That Afghan lad taken the government to high court because he wasn't offered accomodation despite him living in and working in Turkey, then lived in Serbia and France for a while.

As an Irishman Im not entitled to accomodation but this scum thinks he is. God help this country if he wins this case.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248978#Comment_120248978

 this type of story runs totally counter to the narrative that the online guys are pushing.

It's easier to understand simple things than not understand them, so this stuff must be taking its toll on you, because nearly all of those "online guys" have said over and over that the problem is largely the people abusing the system, which most Ukrainians aren't. Those people in Kerry also knew that those Ukrainians were being replaced by the abusers of the system, and I wouldn't be one bit surprised if that was a part of the motivation. Even some of the Ukrainians didn't feel comfortable living among them, yet of course you'll ignore that.

keynes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249004#Comment_120249004

Well, you are actually financing his legal fees. That's how ludicrous this charade has become.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249004#Comment_120249004

As an Irishman Im not entitled to accomodation

"While the 1988 Act does not impose a duty on housing authorities to provide housing to people who are homeless, it does clearly give responsibility to the local authorities to consider their needs and expand their powers to respond to those needs. Specifically authorities may house homeless people from their own housing stock or through arrangement with a voluntary body. The Act also enables the local authority to provide a homeless person with money to source accommodation in the private sector."

https://www.homelessdublin.ie/info/policy

" (2) A person who is unable to provide shelter and maintenance for himself or his dependants shall, for the purposes of this section, be eligible for institutional assistance."

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1953/act/26/section/54/enacted/en/html#sec54

Know your rights!