Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Marcos

Well there's another country that is regretting it's open borders policy, any guesses? No? Well if it is against open borders and is looking to row back on them, it has to be racist obviously - according to thinking of the the usual suspects.

OK I'll tell you, it's South Africa.

"With xenophobia rising in South Africa as its economic crisis deepens, Home Affairs Minister Aaron Motsoaledi has announced plans to toughen asylum and immigration laws in a move that will have far-reaching consequences for foreign nationals who seek political or economic refuge in the country."

Makes you think doesn't it?

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121370377#Comment_121370377

The only ones that are mentioning this are the likes of Carol Nolan in Offaly and a couple of the other independents. The party TDs are either ideologically fixated on this issue - I'm looking at Roderic and Joe O'Brien (formerly of the Immigrant Council of Ireland) and the rest of the greens, or are whipped into submission. Expect some more to start breaking ranks to save their skins. It's a bit like the prisoners dilemma, the first one to break gets the benefits. Once it starts it could be difficult to stop, but that last bit is just some speculation on my part.

I'm not surprised that studies are being hidden, and replaced with happy clappy ones saying that all is rosy in the garden. There's a lot of money and a definite push for this at a supranational level. People can make their own minds up about what the reasons for this might be.

Gussoe

It's only going to get worse.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121370768#Comment_121370768

The only ones that are mentioning this are the likes of

Not literally true. Some government TDs are making critical noises around the edges of the issue

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/former-fine-gael-minister-calls-for-serious-conversation-about-number-of-refugees-coming-to-ireland/a1347892018.html

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/fianna-fail-td-james-oconnor-28622384

But I'm not aware of any calling for wholesale changes in national policy and I'd be surprised if there are any before the general election

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121369896#Comment_121369896

No, but Importing people to actually do the jobs will.

Think about it.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121369915#Comment_121369915

If they are on HAP or other government supports, they are getting plenty of financial help from the govt. Especially if they live in Dublin.

Someone on the dole is not paying 2k a month to rent their one bed apartment. The govt is paying it.

marno21

https://www.radiokerry.ie/podcasts/kerry-today/300-attend-killarney-meeting-on-plans-to-house-asylum-seekers-november-13th-2023-356261

Audio clips from a public meeting in Killarney at the weekend. Pay particular attention to the reception from Norma Foley’s international obligations line

Geuze

The politicians who use the "international obligations" answer never provide any details.

What, exactly, are these obligations?

AFAIK, the EU does not request us or require us to take in any specific amount of UKR refugees? Does it?

I presume some UN convention requires us to hear the case made by AS? Fair enough.

My suggestion is that we hear the cases, and make the response within a week.

dmakc

On the UN, "Whether we accept it or not, we have obligations"... that's contradictory from Norma right there

Patrick2010

Other european counties seem to have no issue turning off the tap.

Strumms

My own thoughts exactly reading that… what obligations ? She’s some piece of work 😒

with people like her becoming elected representatives we really don’t stand a chance…

some situation, some sad state of affairs where the likes of her is fighting tooth and nail for people who have nothing to do with this country with more passion, determination and vigour then she ever has done for any Irish citizens….

only became a TD in 2020 yet the same year was handed a ministerial position, Education no less…

seriously out of her depth and not looking like she’s going to learn how to swim.

20silkcut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121367962#Comment_121367962

They need to get a grip on reality soon or the door will open for much worse alternatives. It’s stunning the lack of decisive political leadership in this country. It’s just a glorified county council. If I hear international obligations one more time. Every country should be entitled to put a Filter on what comes into the country regardless of whatever obligations. What’s the point in having a country otherwise.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371124#Comment_121371124

with people like her becoming elected representatives we really don’t stand a chance

shame there wasn't some mechanism by which ordinary people could change those elected representatives....

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371097#Comment_121371097

Ukrainian citizens are admitted to Ireland under the EU's Temporary Protection Directive (designed to deal with a sudden mass movement of people into the EU). But no, there is no legal obligation on Ireland to admit them....everything that has happened so far has been entirely voluntary.

To my knowledge though, no country in the EU has refused to take Ukrainian people and even non-EU states like Norway, Switzerland, Albania, Montenegro, North Macedonia and Georgia have taken considerable numbers.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371166#Comment_121371166

Leo was making comment recently that we were very close to capacity and also that financial benefits for Ukranians need to be reviewed, citing examples of people moving from Ukraine to an EU country and then on to Ireland, where they would receive more in the way of benefits.

So there is a softening of the stance at the top of govt, but how this plays out in action is another question.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371178#Comment_121371178

I wouldn't see any issue at all with the government saying it has run out of capacity for Ukrainian refugees, especially as there was never any particular 'legal' obligation to take them in the first place. There certainly would be a problem with reducing the payments either - even some Ukrainian people here have said they think the payments are too high.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371151#Comment_121371151

 the door will open for much worse alternatives.

Again with this spectre. There is no sign of these 'much worse alternatives' making any electoral headway even though the current immigration furore has been going on for nearly two years. This 'threat' is never going to persuade the established parties to change course on immigration because they don't believe it is real.

DebDynamite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371032#Comment_121371032

Oh they’re getting support alright, but not free as it is for the Ukrainians

Gussoe

They keep talking about our "International Obligations", but I've seen no detailed discussion about what those entail.

Does anybody know?

20silkcut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371292#Comment_121371292

It is real. Maybe not so much in this country. But in other European countries it is very much a real and absolute threat. And Ireland does not exist in a vacuum. A few like minded countries could have devastating consequences for the entire continent. It’s time mainstream politicians faced reality on this issue.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371328#Comment_121371328

It's this country and as always the next general election that Irish political parties are mostly concerned about.

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371328#Comment_121371328

Yes, this issue has the potential to split the EU.

20silkcut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371371#Comment_121371371

This is a big issue in this country. It’s absolutely stunning to be increasingly hearing about it in conversations with ordinary people every day and then to hear almost nothing about it or a very different narrative on the mainstream media which is supposed to reflect the topics of conversation and opinions among the population.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371557#Comment_121371557

But apparently not in a way that is going to influence how significant numbers vote in the next general election, which is as I say is always the top priority for Irish political parties.

20silkcut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371582#Comment_121371582

That may be the case but it if it was that clear cut in regards to predicting and influencing the opinions of the electorate then there would not be any sport of politics as such. Manys the candidate over the years have lost seats for failing to be in tune with the opinions of his/her electorate.

dmakc

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/sligo/news/north-leitrim-village-to-welcome-155-refugees-amid-concern-over-availability-of-services/a1058654904.html

Another placement with little to no consultation. The government are sh*tting all over communities across the country.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371325#Comment_121371325

I would imagine 'moral' obligations as per being a member of the European Union. You're speaking as if countries saw Ukrainian refugees as being somehow a burden in 2022, when in reality most European countries willingly volunteered to take them, including non EU states like the UK, Norway and Switzerland.

Gussoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371918#Comment_121371918

If it were a 'moral' obligation, they could just say as much. But that's not what the gov have been saying. They say "International Obligations", and that suggests internationally recognised ones, such as the UN Charter, international treaty's, EU treaty's etc. Weird that nobody has challenged them on that.

I suppose the point im making is, that if we have International Obligations, what are they specifically, where are they detailed, and how do we extricate ourselves?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121371965#Comment_121371965

Moral obligation, international obligation, being a member of the 'international community', it's all pretty much the same thing. When war broke out in Europe, everyone rushed to help.....an act of solidarity, so to speak.

I mentioned Switzerland and Norway taking in Ukrainian refugees (65,000 and 60,000 respectively), so it wasn't even an 'EU' thing, more like the whole of Europe reacting to the crisis.

Marcos

Peadar Tobin asked a question in the Dáil to Helen McEntee for the number of deportations by year since 2012. in 2012 273 people were forcibly deported, in 2021 5 people were forcibly deported.

Jesus Christ, that is criminal.