Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257550#Comment_120257550

The "leaders" names are printed beside the party in my post.

They are also the 2 "parties" organising the bulk of the protests.

So, who did you think the OP was referring to?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257550#Comment_120257550

We also need unskilled workers - hospitality, retail, the health service, the care home sector, construction, transport, agriculture etc are hugely dependent on people who don't have degrees.

hotmail.com

All the do gooders at that march while immigrants out working on a Saturday for terrible pay.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256095#Comment_120256095

The thing is, nearly 6B worth of taxpayer funds is being spent on these NGOs. Isn't that the ultimate grift? 6 Billion Euro! We can surely abolish 90% of these and put the money into housing, healthcare etc instead? I'm sure even you'd agree the money would be much better spent there.

Btw, when you say "bootlickers", is that some sort of term for "pro-establishment"? Because in recent years, objectively speaking, it's the right who have been anti-establishment. Covid restrictions and mass immigration, for example, were protested by the right and supported by the left. So, wouldn't that make the left the "bootlickers"? Unless the term means something else I'm unaware of.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256203#Comment_120256203

Yes, NGO employees are required to turn up as part of their job. These people are being payed from our taxes; 6B a year across the whole industry. It's very simple; I think you're just pretending to not understand.

I just looked up a video, and sure enough, it's a load of NGO members in Parnell Square holding up the flags of their particular groups. This event looks like a St. Patrick's Day Parade for NGOs more than anything. They're marching for their salaries as well as "anti-racism".

Again, these groups are a massive waste of taxpayer funds that would be FAR better spent elsewhere.

pauly58

Rather than time for a zero refugee policy, I would suggest we weren't in any position to take any Ukrainians at the start, let alone those from other countries, but it wouldn't look too good if Varadkar had to go the the bosses in Europe & say we've made such a bollox of our housing over the last thirty odd years, I'm afraid we don't have any spare, in fact we have over ten thousand homeless of our own.

Then they might ask well how about your health system ? Sorry, we've made a pigs ear of that as well, no room for any more.

Personally, I have every sympathy with people in Zimbabwe, having had two good friends, one in 1980 in the UK & another here more recently, I know how democracy works African style, but Ireland is too small to even try to make a dent in Zimbabwe's problems, they have a population of nearly 16m, so I would ask the well meaning I'm sure, but naïve posters here, how many should we take ?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257631#Comment_120257631

The thing is, nearly 6B worth of taxpayer funds is being spent on these NGOs. Isn't that the ultimate grift? 6 Billion Euro! We can surely abolish 90% of these and put the money into housing, healthcare etc instead?

Where do you think that 6 billion goes? You have no idea have you? 😂

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257325#Comment_120257325

I'll take that bet. 😂

BlueSkyDreams

Are the prorests themselves not a straw man argument from both points of view, if the discussion is centred around Irelands immigration policy.

Both the Pro and Anti immigration protests are low in number.

So they are largely irrelevant in terms of reflecting public sentiment.

The recent Indo? Poll said 56% were against the current govt policy and 14% were unsure. Leaving only 30% in favour of the current policy.

The Poll perhaps reflects more of a Macro view of how the population feels vs both sets of protests that are micro views.

If the Poll doesnt represent wider opinion, what would be a better measure? I dont know the answer.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257706#Comment_120257706

I'm aware it's distributed across different subsets, including to provide public services. However, a lot of it also goes towards lobbying and campaigning. Even if only 20% of the overall budget was dedicated to lobbying and campaigning, that's still over 1B euro down the drain.

There's a clip of an African lady at the United Nations laughing about how many NGOs there are in Ireland. The quote is as follows:

(addressing the Irish representatives) "In your country, is each person a member of an NGO?" (cue laughter from the room) "Given the large number of representatives who came here just on the subject of racial discrimination, it seems to me that there must be a lot of NGOs. I'm convinced that must be the case".

She's not wrong 🤣

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257838#Comment_120257838

It's going exactly where you said it should go.

But for some reason you want to abolish 90% of it. Now it is 20%?

You seem to really have thought it through anyway. 👍️

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257815#Comment_120257815

I wouldn't be looking for answers in polls.

In October the figure was 61%, but 72% said we should do all we can to stand by Ukraine.

The pollsters get paid per question, so getting a detailed view is expensive and rarely done.

The papers do it for headlines.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257851#Comment_120257851

I used 20% as a conservative figure re: lobbying and campaigning to make a point. It's probably higher, judging by the amount of garbage we're being lobbied with in recent years.

As for the rest, I'm sure an awful lot is also being wasted and mismanaged. Everybody knows this country specialises in wasting money; just look at the HSE if you want a prime example of wasting and mismanaging funds. It's a shambles. So yes, we can probably manage to get rid of 90% and not be much worse off than we currently are 😄

Seriously, the entire funding allocation needs to be analysed, dismantled, and then rebuilt by a team of competent people free of the corruption plaguing this island. We can get SO MUCH more bang for our buck than we currently do. How's the Children's Hospital coming along, lol.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257894#Comment_120257894

Epic random made up numbers. 😂

You can blame right of centre governance and their policies of farming out responsibility, you know which direction to vote next time. 👍️

hotmail.com

Publicity of this march today could lead to an increase in refugees coming here given that #refugeeswelcome.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257956#Comment_120257956

Bullshit

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257867#Comment_120257867

Yeah, dont disagree.

The hard part is cutting through the extremists, whom shout the loudest at either end of the spectrum, and really understanding public sentiment.

There doesnt seem to be a way to accuratley measure it and if it is changing etc.

bokale

Looks like a massive turn out for the 'Ireland for All' anti racism march in town today.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257815#Comment_120257815

The thing about polls is that you can be for or against something without being particularly energised by it. I think way too much was read into the 56% saying recently that Ireland had taken in "too many refugees" in the last year. They might answer that in an opinion poll without ever even having reason to discuss the subject with family or friends i.e. not a priority or burning issue for them. You might as well be asking them about wind farms or the Irish Protocol.

Economics101

I see that Bernadette McAlliskey was leading the Ireland for All march to-day. Also Christy Moore performing Viva la Quinta Brigada, This looks like a very far-left led demo to me.

Frankly the espousal of immigrants' right by the far left put me off immigrants' rights just a little.

SEPT 23 1989

Massive crack down the social lines in this country now

all those flags and organisations that used to represent you now don’t

Juran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257600#Comment_120257600

100% agree. There are 3 Irish lads at this very minute living in our housing estate, with their parents, each in their early 20's, sitting on their h*les with zero qualifications or skills, hanging around the local park smoking dope most days, recieving €230 each week from the social welfare department. Plenty more of these boys & girls in this country to meet a lot if the unskilled workers needs in industry & hospitality.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258354#Comment_120258354

Is that immigrants rights everywhere, Irish abroad, etc? What a horrid little world that would be.

Personally I preferred Christy when he was having the craic, but he wouldn't convince me to think immigrants anywhere should have less rights.

That would be bonkers.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257956#Comment_120257956

Fair play to them. At least they are marching/protesting in an organised and dignified way. Unlike the stupid cowards that form mobs outside accommodation centres and shout idiotic slogans all night.

Beechwoodspark

in fairness it was a very left wing March.

All the unions and NGOs there and to top it off, the bould christy moore god bless us singing some left wing anthem

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257600#Comment_120257600

Clearly, you’ve never heard of automation and AI. Quelle surprise.

The technological revolution is only just getting started. It will eliminate everything from high IQ white collar jobs, creative jobs, that’s before we even start on blue collar labor.

If you have any intellectual curiosity at all, I suggest you play with Open AI’s ChatGPT, recently acquired by Microsoft. I can assure you that your confidence in your ever egregious statements, will be significantly undermined.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258435#Comment_120258435

I do find it odd that groups like forsa and the national women's council have gone all in on this - particularly the latter as most AS are coming from countries with cultures not too keen on women's rights.

In any case we may be starting to see a split cement itself in society but isn't clear yet how firm the pro migration control side in their opinions. When looking at support for each side one has to consider that it is much much politically safer to be open about your support for migration than to be against it. This is perhaps playing out in the relative visible sizes of each group and looks like it isn't reflective of polling on the matter

SEPT 23 1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258513#Comment_120258513

It will be the equivalent of what container ships did to the communities just down the road from that protest today

they just don’t know it yet

Overheal

Nice photo of the crowd there

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/02/18/thousands-protest-against-hatred-and-disinformation-at-anti-racism-march-in-dublin/

hotmail.com

Huge crowd there today at the march. Probably 5 or 6 thousand people showed up on a Winter day.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258277#Comment_120258277

I notice you keep repeating this soft "it's not really a pressing issue for most people.." narrative. As somebody stated earlier, the truth is that very few people want mass immigration into their own areas. It's not just the working class who object.

Why do you think the more affluent areas have taken very few, if any, asylum seekers? Don't believe the "because the buildings are too expensive to rent in wealthy areas" nonsense. The government are practically offering out blank cheques for this. If those areas really wanted to come together and help, they would. But they don't. Why do you think this is?

Back in 2000, the residents of Ballsbridge made the government U-Turn on a center in that area. The people of Achill did something similar in the past. What you're seeing in the likes of East Wall (busloads of migrant men being dropped off at night) simply won't happen in wealthier places like Ballsbridge, Donnybrook, Killiney, Dalkey, Foxrock etc. Why is this the case? Ask yourself that question honestly.

The answer is: because those residents don't want them in their own neighbourhoods.

You might claim most people are nonchalant about this topic, but if a few bus loads of male migrants ever got accommodated at a building in Dalkey village, I can guarantee you the people of the town would immediately take legal action to have the center closed down.

"A reception centre for asylum-seekers in the affluent Dublin suburb of Ballsbridge has been closed after a Government climbdown in the face of legal action by residents. The 50-bedroom former guest house on Pembroke Road was shut down in the past week following a High Court challenge by a residents' group. It is also a blow to the Government's policy to accommodate asylum-seekers in working, middle and upper class areas of Dublin to ensure there is no discrimination".

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ballsbridge-centre-for-asylum-seekers-is-closed-1.299420

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258551#Comment_120258551

The only thing that is odd is that point is being made because it is utter nonsense.

They were marching for people fleeing the tyranny and human rights abuses of those countries.

The same 80 odd loons that will show up in the march tomorrow wouldn't be too keen on women's or minority rights though, maybe they should head to those countries as they would be of similar mind set. Everyone's a winner. 👍️

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257631#Comment_120257631

You clearly havent a clue what you are talking about. The vast majority of that 6bn is spent on education, healthcare, disability services, sport

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257194#Comment_120257194

About 50,000

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258630#Comment_120258630

What I'm say is that it's much easier to march for something when the establishment and media is fully behind you and has labeled the other side as racists and effectively a basket of deplorables.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258631#Comment_120258631

No, the vast majority is spent on wages.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258635#Comment_120258635

Maybe even 60,000.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257944#Comment_120257944

I don't think there's a true political solution to it, Boggles. I believe they're all too beholden to the likes of the E.U and other external influences. Varadkar even tried to confirm this by saying it was E.U law dictating the large immigration numbers, and how we didn't have a choice (which is a lie, as we do indeed have an opt-out as per the Amsterdam Treaty).

I think any party who have realistic chances of getting into power are still going to give our money to these waste-of-space NGOs to tell us how "racist" we all are 🙄

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258643#Comment_120258643

How would you label the Nationalist Party and the Irexit loons?

Racist deplorables would be kind.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258647#Comment_120258647

Crowd size estimation is hard and I wasn't in town today but it's worth noting that the road in front of the CH is about 10m wide and the distance from the loop line to the centre of the CH is about 100m

While the entire crowd isn't photographed, a 50k attendance would be cheek by jowl back to O'Connell bridge.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258631#Comment_120258631

They're wasting money in all of those areas. Not just lobbying groups.

You never answered my question, btw: Is the Muslim guy (Pakistan) I play football with "far-right" for his strongly opposing views on what's represented in your profile pic?

If you fail to answer this, then I can only assume you have an agenda against Irish people, specifically, whom you consider "far-right". Which is racist.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258657#Comment_120258657

You wouldn't catch Tommy Robinson involved in things like that...right?

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258646#Comment_120258646

Indeed. Teachers teaching gives you education. Social care workers are giving personal care to people; washing them, dressing them, helping them into wheelchairs....

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258674#Comment_120258674

Right ok lets remove all the schools, community centres, sports halls, disability centres. Close them all down to save 8bn 😅

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258657#Comment_120258657

I don't see why it matters what I think, but I don't like Barrett or the NP and it's fairly clear they have plenty of racists within their ranks. I would not vote NP.

The problem is that there are plenty of people concerned about migration policy that are not racists but are getting tarred with this brush. It's being used a a catch all to close down discussion. Clinton did this with Trumps soft supporters and and it backfired spectacularly.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258671#Comment_120258671

There's reports (which I will always take with a pinch of salt) that it stretched around to O'Connell street.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258704#Comment_120258704

I don't see why it matters what I think, but I don't like Barrett or the NP and it's fairly clear they have plenty of racists within their ranks. I would not vote NP.

And the Irexit loons?

 Clinton did this with Trumps soft supporters and and it backfired spectacularly.

Yeah she got that one wrong.

Well apart from the attempted coup.

Actually she was spot on, wasn't she?

Again mild in her description if anything.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258695#Comment_120258695

I think you're confused. The entire education budget, for example, is not covered under that figure 😄 Education alone was 9.2B in 2021.

I also find it funny that you're so afraid to label a Muslim opposed to LGBT+ as "far-right", but have no problem doing so for an Irish person. That is both cowardly and racist.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258709#Comment_120258709

Guys, I'm getting off now, and nothing against anybody at this march personally. But the fact remains that the majority of the people there were NGO employees or affiliates. Look at the flags, if nothing else 😄 There's over 10k NGOs in this country. All employees of those organisations would have been firmly instructed that "poor numbers today = less chance of funding in future". They were almost certainly nearly all in attendance, and were payed for doing so.

Sorry to burst anybody's bubble, but this is reality.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256679#Comment_120256679

Naturalisation and asylum claims are two different things. There are similar provisions in the Irish citizenship Act regarding the revocation of naturalisation where it has been obtained by giving false information.