Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510055#Comment_121510055

This government are clueless. They were clueless and poor at communication throughout Covid. They caused the longest lockdowns in EU because they refused to tackle the trolley crisis meaning we had no capacity during the Covid surge.

Leo and Michael don't give a fiddler's now either because they have their eyes on cushy jobs in EU or UN or elsewhere. Their communication and planning for housing immigrants is more of the same but they get a new Green TD to absorb most of the flak.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510022#Comment_121510022

everyone is familiar with the phase "the devil finds work for idle hands".

i personally couldn't give a tinker's curse if they all dropped dead from terminal boredom if you really want to know. but that's unlikely. it's the longterm social consequences i would be afraid of. and do you really think this Govt. has given much thought to that?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509940#Comment_121509940

The IMF were the people insisting on some sort of charge during the bailout , not Europe .

And it was the government of the day , and Phil Hogan that decided they were going to charge everybody and meter the charges etc in the middle of one of the biggest economic downturns and financial crisis for all citizens who were barely keeping their family's heads above the surface . This and Labour supporting it .

That is why the public in general took to the streets .

But I don't see that happening here , not yet .

Very localised objectors only .

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510007#Comment_121510007

You have to say who you are talking to here .or quote the post gl ..

This came after one of mine and I don't recall saying any of that .

That's a very strong post to be directing to the ether.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510201#Comment_121510201

Indeed as regards the devil and idle hands...I am glad you agree that those who burnt that building down , allegedly , are on the dark side!

Long term social circumstance...very good if you believe that anybody really is thinking long term here . I don't .

Think it's more short term thinking " let's house these people in the middle of winter " going on here .

But now not only is a lovely old building destroyed but these lads will be on the streets sleeping rough ..

Is that a win ?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510217#Comment_121510217

A follow-on to my previous reply to Augme.

Yes I will be more careful next time, thanks

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510285#Comment_121510285

I see that now .

It was a bit if a ' wtf ' moment there!

Still a bit strong tho ?

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509965#Comment_121509965

And should a local council made up only of local people get to decide where this tax money is spent? Should this local council also facilitate the collection of tax? Will this local council get to say who can buy a house there? Will they get to approve/deny planning?

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510246#Comment_121510246

is it a win? well if it discourages more of them arriving, then yes that is a positive result.

JPCN1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510142#Comment_121510142

O’Gorman brought much of that on himself. After three failed attempts at the Dail he was made a minister first time he was elected…

More out of his depth than the Titanic imo.

TokTik

Would be delicious irony if this fire was started by homeless immigrants trying to get a bit of heat into themselves and it got out of control.

Im guessing we’d hear no more about it then.

slay55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510005#Comment_121510005

Do you know for fact who burnt the hotel down?

could be insurance fraud, could be asylum seekers preferring to live in Dublin than in the middle of nowhere

could be protestors

we don’t know yet

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510355#Comment_121510355

It won't .

But good to see exactly where you stand , instead of the handwringing over longterm interests and other such pfaffle .

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510005#Comment_121510005

I’m not sure what correlation you are trying to draw between my comment and how the people of Germany felt about Hitler during that time.

I used Hitler to illustrate how scapegoating and having a boogyman figure was leveraged to control and get through policies that maybe otherwise would not have been brought through/actioned as easily. It’s a common historical example that most people would be familiar with.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510352#Comment_121510352

Are you asking that poster those questions ? Seriously ?

Do you not know the answers yourself ?

Maybe say what you think instead of skirting around someone else .

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510377#Comment_121510377

Yes we don't. I said 'if ' .

Not the central point of the post though .

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510098#Comment_121510098

The burden, whatever extent the bureen is, needs to be shared.

Sone posters seen to belive rural area should be absolved from providing support to asylum seekers, but should still receive all the local services that they dont pay for.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510394#Comment_121510394

As is mine .

Just another side to Hitler's Germany..which yes , YOU brought to the discussion , not me .

There was a creeping awareness over time to many that were happily carrying on their daily lives and it didn't suit to see the dark side of what they as a nation had allowed in to govern them .

You are trying to relate it I think to our present government .

Show where we have thuggish criminal behaviour then instigated by our present government?

Nothing has been done remotely anywhere near Hitler's government by our own, the opposite in fact .

But if you look at it the type of government people here are espousing which would be more on the lines of more controls on immigration , sending people home with no respect for international law or treaties , harsher treatment of agencies and people catering for minorities , supporting thuggish burning and persecution of said minorities.

This , as @lumphammer2 said earlier in an excellent post , would not stop there until we have a complete reversal of the last 20 years of equality legislation

You are joking surely if you cannot see the parallels.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121509945#Comment_121509945

In other words, dont put asylum seekers in my rural hamlet, but keep them all in Dublin and Cork.

Nimbyism at its finest.

Er, no.

Your hamlet needs to do its bit also.

And lets not forget that your rural area wouldnt even function if it werent for the money coming from Dublin to prop it up and that much of that money is generated by foreign born people.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510358#Comment_121510358

Yes but I blame all of the cabinet for the poor policy, poor planning and poor communication. Especially the experienced ministers. FF and FG don't get off light on this one as far as I am concerned. The Greens only have 12 seats and most of them are one hit wonders. Everything is sanctioned by cabinet and they never intervened with anything O'Gorman did. He should have been replaced long ago by a senior hurler from FFG but they are too cowardly. The 2 Simon's are doing Mickey Mouse jobs in their sleep with their eye on the FG prize.

Even O'Gormans department is a complete scapegoating exercise by FFG. It used to be called the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs. Nice small simple portfolio for a first time TD. But now they have lobbed on "Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth". All over the shop. Nobody in real charge. Eamonn Ryan should have refused that hospital pass. No no, I am not naive enough to see the stroke FFG are playing here.

That gobdaw Minister for Housing seems to get away Scot free for example.

O'Gorman will likely lose his seat. All the blame will be wasted then. FFG laughing at us.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510457#Comment_121510457

Okay - no need to quote me then? It would serve to discredit me if users don’t read my comment.

Your point is valid but nothing to do with my point.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510246#Comment_121510246

Depends on whose game your playing to see this as a win. For the protesters and those that do not want AS in their community, the destruction of the hotel, putting a permanent end to the question over it, is quite obviously a win. Whoever did it will likely get away with it too, as there are unlikely to be any forensics and no one will talk.

Taking the media view, such obvious destructive hostility to AS will see them be painted as having lost - they will be racist xenophobes.

All the discussion about this seems to dance around the actual issue though - with all sorts of red herrings being pulled out: pressure on services, too isolated, fire safety (ironically) etc. the real issue is that shipping in large numbers of idle men from foreign cultures (of whom many don't get along with) will profoundly change the character of any community in which they are placed. Most communities in which these accommodation centres are proposed are settled and work well. They do not want change. Others, particularly our media, scoff at remarks like "I don't recognise my town anymore" as dimwitted racism, and dismiss their concerns out of hand.

Ultimately, the failure here is to sell the change - and it's a hard sell, because I cannot see any community dividend for hosting these centres.

The government have a problem on their hands that's only going to get bigger. Inaction will lead to radicalisation so they actually need to move on this. The atmosphere around the topic is starting to change though.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510515#Comment_121510515

I always quote the post I am replying to .

I would never have brought up Hitler and his Nazi government in connection with this government...if any tbf .

That credit is entirely yours , thank you ;)

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510439#Comment_121510439

No the burden needs to be eased by taking in less numbers.

Local services has been subsidised in small towns since forever. These tax monies are a basic of survival - they are not there to be politicised and linked to a system of bribes/punishments. The point of this spending is maintaining national cohesion, which is why Dubs (like me) accept net-negative spending for the capital. (Though I would like to see rejuvenation of D1 sometime).

The refugee policy is controversial as it is. If you take dictatorial-like action to force it through even more then that is both avoiding the issue and making the issue worse. It is shoring up trouble for the future.

Many people need to come out of the bubble of arrogance they are in. Not just the Minister for Disintegration but low-level officials, bureaucrats, members of the professional classes, charities etc. You're really flying against the wind on this one.

tom23

Can’t disagree with any of that. the more the government do what they are doing the worse this will get.

dmakc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510470#Comment_121510470

This isn't the first time I've seen this nonsense out of you, are you proposing Ireland break off into 80 sovereign states and each town fend for itself financially? Have you an issue with democracy? Do people these villages not pay taxes? Does their vote count in elections?

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510557#Comment_121510557

Thsts why I ssid that whatever the burden is, it needs to be shared.

We can agree or disagree as to whether we allow 10 asylum seekers or 10,000, but my point is that whatever the inflow number is, it needs to be shared across the country.

It isnt the responsibility of urban areas to shoulder all the accomodation.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510575#Comment_121510575

Yes, all of the above is true and equally, rural areas need to support the asylum process also.

It wouldnt be fair to house all asylum seekers in urban areas only and leave all of the rural areas untouched.

Thats my point. Shared responsibility.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510539#Comment_121510539

I agree wholeheartedly.

Bad planning , poor communication and allowing a fairly junior member of the government get further and further out of his depth in such an important area .

All of this I have said before.

I agree with @Cluedo Monopoly this is a spin so that FFG can turn around and say , " this was a Green agenda ..bad Greens !"

Yes, a discussion needs to be had .

People need to know what can be done and agree .

But we will be a pariah like Hungary if we reject all the international treaties around refugees especially at a time when wars are ongoing .

We have taken a few up to the last 2 years , now we are caught up , and its causing the pressure other countries have had for years .

Same with rural areas, just catching up on refugee allocations that have been concentrated in urban areas till now .

The reason that small areas are getting large numbers is not badness , but desperation, as there are so few smaller houses countrywide .

If only 20 in a few small houses spread more would some people be happy then ?

I remember people protesting small allocations even , but these would be those who will never be happy no matter how many, as a poster replied there , to me.

For some , any number is too many .

That is just unrealistic . The country cannot be ruled by 'some '. So the peoples view on this needs to be sought and the best forum for that is a general election .

Then changes can be made if it truly is the will of the people .

We have to make this an issue for our serving politicians, peacefully, in a democratic mature manner . An issue they can't ignore .

We have done it before ..it can be done without all this aggro. But those who try to push their agenda with violence as a matter of principle should not be tolerated in the country we have now .

Give a thug a bat and it will be used indiscriminately.

By all means protest but respectful peaceful protest gets listened to and is what works .

Look, I know we all don't agree on everything but I think most people can agree that burning buildings and intimidation is not the way we want our society to be .

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510098#Comment_121510098

The Immigration system wasn't set up so local communities could pick and choose if they were wanted to get involved either. A fair solution needs to be found and if local communities need subsidies to survive they need to accept that they might have to abid by certain conditions to get those free subsidies. I hardly think that's particularly unfair to expect.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510333#Comment_121510333

I've never once mentioned collective punishment. I'm taking about collective decision making and collective responsibility for local communities. The freedom to do as the local community want with even greater autonomy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510352#Comment_121510352

Yes, I mean the proposal was the property tax raised was to be ring fenced for local authorities within that area. I don't see why a system of ring fencing further taxes raised within a community is such a bad thing.